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  Zanthorn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/08
Posts: 92

The problem with games is the "gamers" that play them.

3/14/13 9:51:56 PM#101

 

The Tamriel map as we know it. How are the Alliances going to work any other way then how the Dev's have placed them?

If they went free roam everywhere then the dev's would have to scrap 6 YEARS of work and start over. Do we really want that? Or, make it every race for themselves, which stil means recoding a major chuck of the game.

Something to think about.

  Nitth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3201

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/14/13 10:00:06 PM#102


Originally posted by Zanthorn


 

The Tamriel map as we know it. How are the Alliances going to work any other way then how the Dev's have placed them?

If they went free roam everywhere then the dev's would have to scrap 6 YEARS of work and start over. Do we really want that? Or, make it every race for themselves, which stil means recoding a major chuck of the game.

Something to think about.


6 years of work would not be wasted.

It's impossible to say how much work would be involved to apply changes unless you work for the company.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

3/14/13 10:33:44 PM#103
Originally posted by Zanthorn

 

The Tamriel map as we know it. How are the Alliances going to work any other way then how the Dev's have placed them?

If they went free roam everywhere then the dev's would have to scrap 6 YEARS of work and start over. Do we really want that? Or, make it every race for themselves, which stil means recoding a major chuck of the game.

Something to think about.

Have the Factions be Independent Groups, with no ties or affiliations to any of the Nations or Races specifically. These 3 Factions are fighting to control the Nation of Cyrodiil. Not too different than how they have it now.

Players of any Race or Nationality could choose to join one of the Independant Faction groups if they choose to fight.

Maybe even have some (or all) the other Nations secretly supporting one of the Factions, but publicly denying any involvement.

 

They wouldnt have to scrap 6 years of work. They would have to make some changes yes, but nothing so drastic as you claim.

 

*edit. When you look at that map, you can totally see how Firor took one look at it and saw how he could squeeze DAOC to fit into Tamriel.

Ill bet he even got wood.

 

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/14/13 10:37:43 PM#104
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Zanthorn

 

The Tamriel map as we know it. How are the Alliances going to work any other way then how the Dev's have placed them?

If they went free roam everywhere then the dev's would have to scrap 6 YEARS of work and start over. Do we really want that? Or, make it every race for themselves, which stil means recoding a major chuck of the game.

Something to think about.

Have the Factions be Independent Groups, with no ties or affiliations to any of the Nations or Races specifically. These 3 Factions are fighting to control the Nation of Cyrodiil. Not too different than how they have it now.

Players of any Race or Nationality could choose to join one of the Independant Faction groups if they choose to fight.

Maybe even have some (or all) the other Nations secretly supporting one of the Factions, but publicly denying any involvement.

 

They wouldnt have to scrap 6 years of work. They would have to make some changes yes, but nothing so drastic as you claim.

 

Again so you basically want the same failed concept as been done in almost every MMO the last 7-8 years.

 

Theres a reason why there is a RvR style PvP system complete with locked factions, because it's the only model that has worked and it is the only model that has been done 1 other time.  PvP plays no part in the inner workings of an Elder Scrolls Game so keep the PvE model how it was in Skyrim/Morrowind/Oblivian and implement a PvP system that is fresh by all standards.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Rukushin

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 45

3/14/13 11:01:46 PM#105
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by asmkm22
People keep acting like the dev's just blundered into the currect design, but nobody seems to consider that maybe they designed it this way for a reason?

DING DING DING we have a winrar.

Yea and that reason is WRONG. It doesn't fit TES at all and if you going to use the name you have to be faithful to the IP. Also the reasoning they are using is turning ESO into more of DAoC which means PvP is their main focus and everything else secondary and that is not TES at all. So, I say it again:

DOWN WITH FACTION LOCK ZONES and RACES, UP WITH FREEDOM a la "braveheart-style" haha

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/14/13 11:28:41 PM#106
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by sapphen

War is different than a game of chess.  There is no way that I would believe that someone is going to unite 3 races just to beat another faction. That doesn't make sense.

This is quite normal in fantasy lore. Even in reality periods of 100's of years can see the rise and fall of many different factional/racial relationships or wars. There are many both real and fictional examples of mortal enemies uniting in common causes. Look at slave armies as just one example, many people uniting (many not even sharing a common tongue) to fight a common enemy.

I like many sci-fi / fantasy novels but some of the normal ones can be a litthe cheesy.  I could see a revenge type plot or maybe Molag wanting to kill everyone but zenimax states that a Nord High King, a Breton Merchant Lord and an Altmer Queen are fighting for the ruby throne.

There is no reason why a Nord HIgh King wouldn't buy a group of orc slaves and put them on the frontlines or make/repair weapons.  He's already accepted the Dunmers and Argonians, do you think he'll turn down a fully trained Redguard Swordsman! Those guys are legendary ~ or what about a Breton Battlemage who rebelled against the Merchant Lord.  Granted he might not be fully trusted but he could do some dirty work.

There are both real and fictional examples of mortal enemies uniting in common causes.  I am a Altmer and I'm outraged that my Queen, who isn't even old enough to wax her own bow, allied with those filthy flu infested Khajiit.  Those beasts are beneth us as well as those Bosmer... they eat their own kind.   I hear the Merchant Lord offers gold in exchange for information, perhaps the half-elves will welcome my company.

There are many things that don't make sense with this set-up, that would not work in any story outside of one contained in a video game. Like the every two week nature of crownings, why it's a random footman being crowned and not faction heads etc.. The alliance thing is a non-factor in comparison.

I feel like the 'faction pride' wouldn't be affected if they allowed players to choose their faction while in the gaming world.  There are many things that don't make sense, there's no need to limit the players while you're doing it.

  Zanthorn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/08
Posts: 92

The problem with games is the "gamers" that play them.

3/14/13 11:34:04 PM#107
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by Zanthorn

 


 

 


 

6 years of work would not be wasted.  And you know that to be true how? Given the statement below.

It's impossible to say how much work would be involved to apply changes unless you work for the company.

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

3/14/13 11:41:53 PM#108
Originally posted by Zanthorn

 

The Tamriel map as we know it. How are the Alliances going to work any other way then how the Dev's have placed them?

If they went free roam everywhere then the dev's would have to scrap 6 YEARS of work and start over. Do we really want that? Or, make it every race for themselves, which stil means recoding a major chuck of the game.

Something to think about.

 

Can someone explain (w/bevity), what exactly are we discussing?

To me, it seems like many things... all at once? What would be wasted for 6 years..?

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

  Punk999

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/04
Posts: 878

3/14/13 11:44:39 PM#109
I doubt they will ever change the pve lockout... which they shouldnt since this is a RvR focused game.

"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com

  Zanthorn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/08
Posts: 92

The problem with games is the "gamers" that play them.

3/15/13 12:22:31 AM#110
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Zanthorn

 

 

Have the Factions be Independent Groups, with no ties or affiliations to any of the Nations or Races specifically. These 3 Factions are fighting to control the Nation of Cyrodiil. Not too different than how they have it now. 

1) How did the independent group form? 2)Where are they based in the above map? 3)Why did they form in the first place if they have no ties to anyone or anything? How much programming rework would this setup require to implament? Can it be done without stacking the numbers in one groups favor? I could go on, however will not.

Players of any Race or Nationality could choose to join one of the Independant Faction groups if they choose to fight.

1) So what happens to all of the voice acting they have already done? 2)What happens to all of the quest lines already programmed in? 3)How about the 3 Allince story arcs that now have to be rewriten?

Maybe even have some (or all) the other Nations secretly supporting one of the Factions, but publicly denying any involvement.

 1)How would it be done to keep from imbalancing? 2)What kind of story work would be envoled to implement this change? 3) Is there a backlash for being discovered? 4) If so,Then what form does it take and how is it implemented?

They wouldnt have to scrap 6 years of work. They would have to make some changes yes, but nothing so drastic as you claim.

 Taking in to consideration how far along they are,and the above questions, if answered relisticly, can you not see just how much of an undertaking it would be?

*edit. When you look at that map, you can totally see how Firor took one look at it and saw how he could squeeze DAOC to fit into Tamriel.

Ill bet he even got wood.  

 

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

3/15/13 1:35:01 AM#111
Originally posted by Zanthorn

I imagine that the only way to another territory is through Cyrodiil.  Skyrim and Morrowind will be separated by mountains.

I say if you want to join another faction you have to run there, through Cyrodiil, as a level 1, with a big fat PvP target on your head.  If you can make it to the other side, you can join that faction.  It's a win/win for both sides: the RvR fans they get to murder, spawn camp and harass anyone trying to join another faction & 'hardcore' TES fans have a way to pick a faction.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/15/13 4:00:36 AM#112
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
So what do you do once you can wander anywhere? By your suggestion there would be no PvP, if I read right you cant enter the other factions dungeons. Quests and story are writen for the faction that map is made for? So were there just to look around?

Why do you insist on believing that every dungeon, ever questline and every damn thing you can dop in each faction area is keyed to faction members alone?

You have NO basis for this assumption.

Sure - the story stuff will be.

But Zenimax have made it very clear indeed that there is stuff to explore for and stumble across - just like TES, where, by the way, there is lot on non-factional, non-main-storyline, non-specific stuff to do.

It would this content that could be acessed by all - and unless this is tte FIRST MMO in history to have entirely factional-focussed content and personal storyline with their PvE content, then there would be plenty to do.

Everywhere you post your contentions that touching the game would be like kicking a pil of Jenga blocks; that the whole thing in each factional area is all inextricably tied up with targetted plots that 'wouldn't work' if used by others.

This is 100% assumption on your part Nan...

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2661

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/15/13 4:08:25 AM#113
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Zanthorn

I imagine that the only way to another territory is through Cyrodiil.  Skyrim and Morrowind will be separated by mountains.

I say if you want to join another faction you have to run there, through Cyrodiil, as a level 1, with a big fat PvP target on your head.  If you can make it to the other side, you can join that faction.  It's a win/win for both sides: the RvR fans they get to murder, spawn camp and harass anyone trying to join another faction & 'hardcore' TES fans have a way to pick a faction.

Skyrim and Morrowind are the same faction so no they wouldn't be seperated by mountains nor would you have to go through Cryodill to reach it.  Now Skyrim is probably seperated from Hammerfell by something because they are opposite factions.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/15/13 4:13:02 AM#114
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Maelwydd

Just make an alt. That's a far FAR simpler solution than the ugly bloody bandaid the OP suggested.

Simpler? Yes. Do I want to do that? No. Should I have to do that? No. Is it impossible to allow it? No.

And I don't want the devs to have to reconfigure the game to suit someone who is too lazy to make a second character.

And I don't want to have players from an enemy realm walking through my home, eating my food, adventuring with my friends, when all the lore of the game tells me that we should be enemies and killing one another.

It undermines the entire fucking game.

'too lazy'...

Ah yes of course - THAT'S what we are...

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/15/13 4:19:16 AM#115
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Because rewarding a single person for a group effort does not go over well when the vast majority of your playerbase are selfish twats.

Isn't that the same thing the Emporer system is doing?  This is a group game, a player isn't going to be the top ranked player by playing by himself.

Different rewarding someone with a temp title over giving them a power boots in PvP. If you missed it on the last page it works like this... When a battle over Cyrodiil is won, they take up a tally of the winning side. DPS, Healing and what ever metrics they use to work that out, who ever gets the highest score is Emperoro. I think its kinda cool. I know I wont play enough to have that happen to me but would be cool IMO. 

A solo player has as much chance of winning the title as a team player.

hmmmm that's intriguing though weird.

I would say fair over weird. Why should solo or grouped or guildied members be rewarded better then the other group. Should be skill based IMO.

I wonder if it's also time based or only for hardcore players.  It just seems like this system is rewarding only a small percent of the population.

Plus, why doesn't the faction leaders want to be Emperor - I thought that was the whole reason for the war.

How does that drive or reward the players who took over Cyrodill? I dont know maybe I am wrong but you have to admit it would be cool to win that title and maybe have something dumb like in your main factions city a statue of you there for all to see. Or something that says... I was the MVP of that battle.

No-one will have the slightest respect for any of the 'mayfly' emperors which will exist in the game.

"Who's Emperor THIS week?.... who the hell cares..."

You might as hand out lollipop or gold stars for all the good it will be to have the title.

Will you be able to do ANYTHING a real emperor could?

Command armies?

Give orders to your minions?

Have people executed?

Give out land to your favoured cronies?

Order an increase in taxation and pocket the gold?

Have someone assassinated?

No...

It's a gimmick which doesn't fit, makes no sense and makes a mockery of the supposed aims of the NPC faction leaders.

Even if they have made it worth something - you really think an algorithm and nothing else is the way to go? If a large guild has a profound effect on the fighting but it then goes to someone who simply camped the area rouind the clock, then it will rightly piss people off!

In any scenario where faction pride flies in the face of guild pride - don't expect this to work 'as intended'...

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1111

3/15/13 6:08:40 AM#116
If I became Emperor the first thing I would do would be to kill the faction leader who was stupid enough to give me the crown!
  Nanfoodle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3376

3/15/13 7:26:43 AM#117
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
So what do you do once you can wander anywhere? By your suggestion there would be no PvP, if I read right you cant enter the other factions dungeons. Quests and story are writen for the faction that map is made for? So were there just to look around?

Why do you insist on believing that every dungeon, ever questline and every damn thing you can dop in each faction area is keyed to faction members alone?

You have NO basis for this assumption.

Sure - the story stuff will be.

But Zenimax have made it very clear indeed that there is stuff to explore for and stumble across - just like TES, where, by the way, there is lot on non-factional, non-main-storyline, non-specific stuff to do.

It would this content that could be acessed by all - and unless this is tte FIRST MMO in history to have entirely factional-focussed content and personal storyline with their PvE content, then there would be plenty to do.

Everywhere you post your contentions that touching the game would be like kicking a pil of Jenga blocks; that the whole thing in each factional area is all inextricably tied up with targetted plots that 'wouldn't work' if used by others.

This is 100% assumption on your part Nan...

Ok, lets look at it with a simple line of thinking. You are a writer, you are given the lore of ESO, the player has lost his soul (personal level) and there is a war between 3 factions (global game scale). Here is your faction your writing for and the map it will take place on. (this is the core of development for 6 years) If you are even just a little bit creative what would you do? Write generic quests any faction could do? Or would you be writing a story (with VO) that showed how this war affected your faction and your char? Would you be so shallow a writer as to ignore this common thread? As a writer would you ignore the 2 biggest points of the game in your writing? Only reason you fail to see this is your hope to break this down to it being simple to change the faction lock. Think for a few min as a writer and tell me what you would have done as a writer with the lore handed to you?

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/15/13 8:11:01 AM#118
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
So what do you do once you can wander anywhere? By your suggestion there would be no PvP, if I read right you cant enter the other factions dungeons. Quests and story are writen for the faction that map is made for? So were there just to look around?

Why do you insist on believing that every dungeon, ever questline and every damn thing you can dop in each faction area is keyed to faction members alone?

You have NO basis for this assumption.

Sure - the story stuff will be.

But Zenimax have made it very clear indeed that there is stuff to explore for and stumble across - just like TES, where, by the way, there is lot on non-factional, non-main-storyline, non-specific stuff to do.

It would this content that could be acessed by all - and unless this is tte FIRST MMO in history to have entirely factional-focussed content and personal storyline with their PvE content, then there would be plenty to do.

Everywhere you post your contentions that touching the game would be like kicking a pil of Jenga blocks; that the whole thing in each factional area is all inextricably tied up with targetted plots that 'wouldn't work' if used by others.

This is 100% assumption on your part Nan...

Ok, lets look at it with a simple line of thinking. You are a writer, you are given the lore of ESO, the player has lost his soul (personal level) and there is a war between 3 factions (global game scale). Here is your faction your writing for and the map it will take place on. (this is the core of development for 6 years) If you are even just a little bit creative what would you do? Write generic quests any faction could do? Or would you be writing a story (with VO) that showed how this war affected your faction and your char? Would you be so shallow a writer as to ignore this common thread? As a writer would you ignore the 2 biggest points of the game in your writing? Only reason you fail to see this is your hope to break this down to it being simple to change the faction lock. Think for a few min as a writer and tell me what you would have done as a writer with the lore handed to you?

It is beyond ridiculous to ASSUME that all, or even the majority of PvE content in each faction area is faction only material.

There has never been an MMO that was so focussed on one aspect of play experience - even in those whose personal or factional stories were important.

So according to you there will be no random ancient tombs, no peasants needing wolves run off, no haunted ruins populated by undead, no mages/fighters/rogues etc, guild quests, no wandering mobs in any terrain anywhere who will attack 'anyone', no random events that have nothing to do with the war, no lairs of dangerous monsters, no bandit ambushes, no gangs of thieves, no buried treasure chest hunts, no sunken ships, no raiding trolls from the mountains, IN FACT - no way of interacting with any content whatesoever unless you are a card-carrying faction member..?

Are you seriously trying to say this!?

Your standpoint is absolutely ridiculous, and you simply refuse to acknowledge the reasons why.

Astounding...

  Horusra

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 2131

3/15/13 8:17:38 AM#119

Exactly why would a guard/town/merchant want to sell anything or not just kill an enemy from another faction in their lands.  Pretty sure in most wars they do not allow enemy nationals behind the lines without trying to remove them

 

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/15/13 8:20:54 AM#120
Originally posted by Horusra

Exactly why would a guard/town/merchant want to sell anything or not just kill an enemy from another faction in their lands.  Pretty sure in most wars they do not allow enemy nationals behind the lines without trying to remove them

 

Read my post - there is no point using logic to try to explain Zenimax's plot as it stands NOW - so adding another minor inconsistency has no significant bearing on the matter.

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