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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Rooted in place

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207 posts found
  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

3/15/13 3:59:05 AM#161

Spam Lance of Faith = Neverwinter cleric gameplay.

Then 'dodge' away on a nice little burst of light when needed.

[mod edit]

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2699

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/15/13 4:04:43 AM#162
Originally posted by gillrmn

This is action combat game.

 

This was always advertized as action combat game.

 

Rooting dirupts fluidity of action combatness - I do not consider te game action combat with rooting. Many other players also do not consider that game is action combat with rooting - as it has been implemented now. It feels like a turn-based game, I usually get a feeling of Final Fantasy game while playing it.

 

hence devs should either remove rooting or use a wish spell to make a first of the kind game which does not look turn-based while rooting is implemented.

You do this and the entire concept falls apart IMO.  Then the game becomes more of a kiting game and in turn ranged will be the most powerful classes.

 

I am perfectly fine with the way it is implemented now, it is stil lvery action orientated but now your skills play a bigger role, your defensive countermove plays a bigger move.  Spacing and postioning plays a bigger role.  Do away with that and you have a GW2 style combat system which is arguably worse.  Besides I feel that with the aniamtions being as quick as they are now, it isn't a huge deal.  An ability that takes 1 sec or 1.5 sec to complete like in Tera is more problematic but when every non channel ability has an activation time at around .25 -.5 sec then it becomes manageable and more fluid.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  User Deleted
3/15/13 7:12:34 AM#163
Originally posted by fiontar

Rooted "action" combat was really a transition step between turn based combat and fully realized action combat. Rooting doesn't "need to go" because that's the way GW2 does combat, GW2 just proved that fluid, non-rooted combat is now fully achievable and rooted combat is thus now an archaic throwback to a thankfully now dead era.

A lot of concessions need to be made in game design due to technical and design limitations. One of the major elements marking the end of one generation of games and the beginning of the next is some significant progress towards eliminating one or more of those concessions.

The era of rooted combat in MMOs has passed and MMO developers who don't adapt to the new reality are doing themselves, their game and their fans a huge dis-service.

/signed

People need to read this again it seems. Especially since NWO wasnt supposed to have rooting in the first place. Balancing act...yeah right...more like "out of budget need to launch" act :)

  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

3/15/13 7:20:32 AM#164
This is one of those pointless arguments. Both types of gameplay have there place. Each has its pros and cons and every single game is different in some way.  I enjoyed GW2 while I played it. I also enjoyed many hours of the beta 2 for Neverwinter. 
  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/15/13 10:11:46 AM#165
Originally posted by Jyiiga
This is one of those pointless arguments. Both types of gameplay have there place. Each has its pros and cons and every single game is different in some way.  I enjoyed GW2 while I played it. I also enjoyed many hours of the beta 2 for Neverwinter. 

The argument is not if rooted or non-rooted is good or bad. It is that we were promised action combat game. However currently the game does not feel action-combaty.

The terms like action-combat etc are always relative to the time-frame a game is released. Right now, games which feel like action combaty are much actiony than NW.

Removal of rooting is one of the ways to make game more action oriented. Currently when they root, the game feels more like a turn based gamed covering its turns with rooting - which is not the case with Neverwinter as technically in this game mobile combat is possible.

That is the origin of removal of rooting. If developers can find a way to make the combat action oriented without removing rooting, the demand will die out. However, right now it seems the only viable option.

  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

3/15/13 10:42:05 AM#166
Originally posted by gillrmn
Originally posted by Jyiiga
This is one of those pointless arguments. Both types of gameplay have there place. Each has its pros and cons and every single game is different in some way.  I enjoyed GW2 while I played it. I also enjoyed many hours of the beta 2 for Neverwinter. 

The argument is not if rooted or non-rooted is good or bad. It is that we were promised action combat game. However currently the game does not feel action-combaty.

The terms like action-combat etc are always relative to the time-frame a game is released. Right now, games which feel like action combaty are much actiony than NW.

Removal of rooting is one of the ways to make game more action oriented. Currently when they root, the game feels more like a turn based gamed covering its turns with rooting - which is not the case with Neverwinter as technically in this game mobile combat is possible.

That is the origin of removal of rooting. If developers can find a way to make the combat action oriented without removing rooting, the demand will die out. However, right now it seems the only viable option.

The problem is you try to shovel off your "opinion" as fact. The term "action combat" is extremely broad and has no set definition. What you require for a game to be labeled as "action combat" may not be the same for the next person. 

Maybe you need to go play like half an hour of NWN or NWN2 to refresh yourself on what those games felt like. Where you had to pause combat every 8 seconds to keep from dying horribly.  Was this a bad thing, no it was just different.

Is Neverwinter more action oriented than NWN or NWN2 yes. is it less action oriented than GW2? Yes, if all you require for a game to not be labeled action oriented is being able to move and shoot/swing at the same time. 

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/16/13 7:54:39 AM#167
Originally posted by Jyiiga
...

The terms like action-combat etc are always relative to the time-frame a game is released. Right now, games which feel like action combaty are much actiony than NW....

The problem is you try to shovel off your "opinion" as fact. The term "action combat" is extremely broad and has no set definition. What you require for a game to be labeled as "action combat" may not be the same for the next person. 

Maybe you need to go play like half an hour of NWN or NWN2 to refresh yourself on what those games felt like. Where you had to pause combat every 8 seconds to keep from dying horribly.  Was this a bad thing, no it was just different.

Is Neverwinter more action oriented than NWN or NWN2 yes. is it less action oriented than GW2? Yes, if all you require for a game to not be labeled action oriented is being able to move and shoot/swing at the same time. 

As I said above, tion-combat term is relative to the time-frame a game is released, especially as it is claimed as AAA game. This is the next genration to old games. There was a time when the RTS system in FF was considered action combat. You can't make a claim like that anymore as world has moved on.

I am not touting it as fact, but it is obvious I am not alone in my opinion as it is shared by many other players who played the game.

  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1016

3/16/13 11:57:13 AM#168
Originally posted by gillrmn
Originally posted by Jyiiga
...

The terms like action-combat etc are always relative to the time-frame a game is released. Right now, games which feel like action combaty are much actiony than NW....

The problem is you try to shovel off your "opinion" as fact. The term "action combat" is extremely broad and has no set definition. What you require for a game to be labeled as "action combat" may not be the same for the next person. 

Maybe you need to go play like half an hour of NWN or NWN2 to refresh yourself on what those games felt like. Where you had to pause combat every 8 seconds to keep from dying horribly.  Was this a bad thing, no it was just different.

Is Neverwinter more action oriented than NWN or NWN2 yes. is it less action oriented than GW2? Yes, if all you require for a game to not be labeled action oriented is being able to move and shoot/swing at the same time. 

As I said above, tion-combat term is relative to the time-frame a game is released, especially as it is claimed as AAA game. This is the next genration to old games. There was a time when the RTS system in FF was considered action combat. You can't make a claim like that anymore as world has moved on.

There you go again... "The world has moved on" Really.. So you are the end all authority on such things.?

I am not touting it as fact, but it is obvious I am not alone in my opinion as it is shared by many other players who played the game.

No you are not alone and you are no more right or wrong than anyone else. It is just your opinion. 

Me for example.. This dragon fight looks plenty actiony and fun to me.

http://www.twitch.tv/casimyroverride/c/2010812

 

-------------------- EDIT

 

This is one of those titles where everyone can play it and make up their own mind. I think that is the most important take away. Avoid the pre-orders and play the damned thing for free. It isn't some huge MMO that you have to lay down a stack of bills on. 

 

  tagtarsis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/12
Posts: 34

3/16/13 12:56:56 PM#169

I have read most of this thread and I have to say I appriciate both sides of this point.

 

I do agree however that I do like the way the combat has gone in NWO. I think I like it better then my 8 months playing GW2. I can say even in GW2 great sword warriors had to deal with rooting on one of our skills and being rooted in a game where everyone else is not is a bit frustrating, however if most everyone is rooted I have less of a concern about this.

 

My second thought is this: Action combat in GW2 was fun in some ways and a lot of movement but I would not call that action, what I called it was floaty...Nothing ever reacted to any attack unless it was a CC attack and most bosses were highly resistant to CC. All I was causing was the #'s above the mobs head and that was it. There was no connection to the mob, he didnt move he didnt act hurt, he was staic and just doing his thing. I didnt feel that way in NWO I had fun killing stuff because it looked fun to watch. Mobs would react to my attacks and even if they were attacking me also they would still move a bit from a heavy hit.

 

IMO this is a case of opinion. I for one prefer the way NWO has made the combat, and it will do a good thing adding back in the Trinity of MMO's I am ready to have a game where you have to work with our team rather then independent of them. Every man for himself was ok for a bit but now our tanks will take damage because they are tanks, and our healers will have to work to heal them.

 

Again I appriciate both sides of this argument but I find myself falling on the side where I like the rooted combat.


  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/16/13 1:17:55 PM#170

ill give a little example here.. two games somewhat similar overall look.. one uses mostly full rooting for ranged classes(Tera) one does not(Blade & Soul) to me B&S combat just looks overall much more fluid than the move stop move stop gameplay of games that root like this..  but again for me rooting is much less noticable if they have smoother transitions between skills like batman arkham asylum

Tera

Blade & Soul

 oops messed up one link.. fixed now

 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 463

3/16/13 1:30:15 PM#171

I like the rooting in place, and I hope it stays, because it's true Action Combat.

 

People who don't like it can go play casually GW2 spamming the same 2 skills from level 1 to 60. They really won't be missed here. I see no argument to be had in this instance. Don't like the rooting - don't play NWO. It is clear that the rooting is a design choice and a balancing factor, as it did not originally exist and was put in place later during the game's development. By now it's pretty clear that it's just 2 people either trolling or just clueless.

 

Action combat games have always had rooting as balancing mechanic, from 1985 Ghosts'n'Goblins to 2013 Devil May Cry, going all the way through the most successfull Action games of history, and amongst them is the king of ARPG, Diablo. I said it before, I say it again - whenever I want to play a crappy easymode buttonmasher game, I'll buy a console. Leave my PC action games as they are. I applaud NWO for staying true to the genre.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/16/13 1:35:37 PM#172
Originally posted by Aerowyn

ill give a little example here.. two games somewhat similar overall look.. one uses mostly full rooting for ranged classes(Tera) one does not(Blade & Soul) to me B&S combat just looks overall much more fluid than the move stop move stop gameplay of games that root like this..  but again for me rooting is much less noticable if they have smoother transitions between skills like batman arkham asylum

Tera

Blade & Soul

 oops messed up one link.. fixed now

 

adding in another link to compare a action game that does rooting as well but has a smoother transition between skills imho so it makes the gameplay feel a good bit smoother

Vindictus

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 463

3/16/13 1:39:42 PM#173
Originally posted by Aerowyn
adding in another link to compare a action game that does rooting as well but has a smoother transition between skills imho so it makes the gameplay feel a good bit smoother

Vindictus

 

Not sure if you are aware that's exactly how it works in NWO. In fact, you can queue your Dodge ability right after a skill to get out of the way before what the casting animation displays. Believe me, I played a Devoted Cleric to 29 and if I haven't read wrong, you've played a Trickster Rogue, which actually has no rooting to speak of.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/16/13 1:47:59 PM#174
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
Originally posted by Aerowyn
adding in another link to compare a action game that does rooting as well but has a smoother transition between skills imho so it makes the gameplay feel a good bit smoother

Vindictus

 

Not sure if you are aware that's exactly how it works in NWO. In fact, you can queue your Dodge ability right after a skill to get out of the way before what the casting animation displays. Believe me, I played a Devoted Cleric to 29 and if I haven't read wrong, you've played a Trickster Rogue, which actually has no rooting to speak of.

melee uses animation locks which are fine I don't mind them much as they are fast in this game and they transition fairly well.. yes i'm fully aware this is exactly how it works in NWO.. think you are missing the whole point.. rooting is not really the issue at all(for me).. NWO has the same stop cast stop cast feeling as Tera where the animations from cast --> moving --> casting again doesn't flow as well as it should which causes a "jerky" not fluid gameplay..  watch vindictus how the transition goes between the 3 then watch a control wizard or the Tera video. It's not the rooting it's how it's presented that is the problem for me

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 463

3/16/13 2:00:43 PM#175

I'm sure some smoothing of the animations will take place, this was the first Beta without it and they're getting a ton of feedback. What I don't want to see is the rooting removed completely, because I like how it makes you think and decide when you can afford to cast one of your spells, or you should play more defensive.

 

Without any kind of rooting, the game's combat mechanics would be just dead and come down to endless backpedaling while shooting at the stuff that follows you. And that would not be an Action Combat game, it would be a pointless crap game.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  tagtarsis

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/12
Posts: 34

3/16/13 2:06:28 PM#176
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I'm sure some smoothing of the animations will take place, this was the first Beta without it and they're getting a ton of feedback. What I don't want to see is the rooting removed completely, because I like how it makes you think and decide when you can afford to cast one of your spells, or you should play more defensive.

 

Without any kind of rooting, the game's combat mechanics would be just dead and come down to endless backpedaling while shooting at the stuff that follows you. And that would not be an Action Combat game, it would be a pointless crap game.

Great Points!


  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/16/13 2:15:56 PM#177
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

I'm sure some smoothing of the animations will take place, this was the first Beta without it and they're getting a ton of feedback. What I don't want to see is the rooting removed completely, because I like how it makes you think and decide when you can afford to cast one of your spells, or you should play more defensive.

 

Without any kind of rooting, the game's combat mechanics would be just dead and come down to endless backpedaling while shooting at the stuff that follows you. And that would not be an Action Combat game, it would be a pointless crap game.

curious though what do you consider blade & souls combat?... it allows free movement on many channel skills and cast on the run instants.. has full interaction with mobs like vindictus where you can knock enemies into the air and do aerial attacks with certain classes. Now not saying this style would work great in nwo but action games can have non-rooted combat and not just be mindless kiting. 

But i do hope enough gave feedback about the animation transitions and they get cleaned up some before launch

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  simmihi

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 514

3/16/13 2:21:30 PM#178
Originally posted by Alber_gamer

Without any kind of rooting, the game's combat mechanics would be just dead and come down to endless backpedaling while shooting at the stuff that follows you. And that would not be an Action Combat game, it would be a pointless crap game.

I finally understood why I actually hate GW2's combat. No, I'm not being sarcastic. Thank you!

  Deivos

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1701

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

3/16/13 2:27:48 PM#179
Originally posted by ranncore

I like it a lot better than seeing pepole jump/swing/spin at the same time. 

 

lrn2dodge

So...

You want people to dodge, but you don't want them to move.

Oki doki...

 

EDIT: I can understand the annoyance at pointless acrobatics, but the point most people have about the complaints at being rooted is that by doing so it reduces the practical degree of mobility. Being reliant only on implemented dodge mechanics means you're reliant on a single aspect that compensates only for the fact that all other movement options are removed.

 

Point here being, if you could move, you wouldn't need a separate dodge mechanic. You instead make sure the game is up to snuff on hit detection.

 

Which presently isn't the case any ways, given how many were commenting in-game about how they were still getting hit by attacks long after dodging a melee attacker.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  locustuses

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/07
Posts: 6

3/16/13 2:28:43 PM#180

A lot of posters here forgot the key principle of the modern era...choice.  If you don't like it, play a different game.  I'm also curious to see how many of the people citing "this game did it better" are still playing that game, or if they complain about that game on its forums, too.

Choice.  It's 'Merican!

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