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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Bite-size gaming .. the future of MMO?

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466 posts found
  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3067

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/14/13 4:30:38 PM#201


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by BadSpock The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players. Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it! Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.  
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.

I will play games that does not lock content based on time available.

And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit.

So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.


List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4309

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/14/13 4:33:29 PM#202
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by BadSpock The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players. Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it! Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.  
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.

 

I will play games that does not lock content based on time available.

And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit.

So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.


 

List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.

 Kinda of a silly question.  Everything requires time.  The question is "how much time should be required, not if it takes time.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3067

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/14/13 4:39:07 PM#203


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by BadSpock The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players. Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it! Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.  
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.   I will play games that does not lock content based on time available. And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit. So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
  List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.
 Kinda of a silly question.  Everything requires time.  The question is "how much time should be required, not if it takes time.

The problem in the case is that they are linked. You get out what you put in.

abstract example: You start off with 0 properties in monopoly, But with the passing of time you will acquire half the board.

Also like monopoly you cant cut it down into "bite size chunks" because you have other participates that require your interaction.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  maplestone

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

3/14/13 4:40:32 PM#204
Originally posted by Nitth

List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.

Lotteries.

 

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4309

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/14/13 4:41:53 PM#205
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by BadSpock The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players. Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it! Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.  
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.   I will play games that does not lock content based on time available. And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit. So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
  List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.
 Kinda of a silly question.  Everything requires time.  The question is "how much time should be required, not if it takes time.

 

The problem in the case is that they are linked. You get out what you put in.

abstract example: You start off with 0 properties in monopoly, But with the passing of time you will acquire half the board.

Also like monopoly you cant cut it down into "bite size chunks" because you have other participates that require your interaction.

 Yes but a great people will do that in a quarter the time of a bad player. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3067

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

3/14/13 4:46:35 PM#206


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by BadSpock The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players. Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it! Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.  
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.   I will play games that does not lock content based on time available. And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit. So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
  List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.
 Kinda of a silly question.  Everything requires time.  The question is "how much time should be required, not if it takes time.
  The problem in the case is that they are linked. You get out what you put in. abstract example: You start off with 0 properties in monopoly, But with the passing of time you will acquire half the board. Also like monopoly you cant cut it down into "bite size chunks" because you have other participates that require your interaction.
 Yes but a great people will do that in a quarter the time of a bad player. 

And whats wrong with that?


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4309

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/14/13 4:49:23 PM#207
Originally posted by Nitth

 


Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Nitth  

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by BadSpock The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players. Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it! Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.  
That sounds like work. We are talking about games, not trying to get promotion.   I will play games that does not lock content based on time available. And oh btw, even in WOW, you can do LFR, do a boss, then quit. So no .. i am not going to dedicate to games, and will the ones that don't require me to do that. We all vote with our feet & wallet. Devs respond. That is how the market works.
  List 1 game physical or electronic that doesnt require time investment + mental or physical work to play.
 Kinda of a silly question.  Everything requires time.  The question is "how much time should be required, not if it takes time.
  The problem in the case is that they are linked. You get out what you put in. abstract example: You start off with 0 properties in monopoly, But with the passing of time you will acquire half the board. Also like monopoly you cant cut it down into "bite size chunks" because you have other participates that require your interaction.
 Yes but a great people will do that in a quarter the time of a bad player. 

 

And whats wrong with that?

 Didn't say anything was wrong with that, thats the way I feel it should be.  There is no specific time dependance only ability dependance.  Most MMO's are not like this.  They depend largely on time played, not ability played. 

So once again, in an MMO how much time should be required. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/14/13 4:53:37 PM#208
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen

I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?

Don't play with me. I don't play games with commitment. Games are just entertainment.

That's just it....MMORPG's take comitment unlike console gaming where you can save and quit when you please. Or even other forms of PC gaming where generally you can save and quit on a whim.

You sure seem to be committed to campaigning for the dumbing down and altering of the MMORPG genre though I must say. Still haven't answered my question (Near the end of the pst)  from my page 17 post either.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/14/13 4:57:53 PM#209
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by DancingQueen

Play Tetris if you have no time for gaming, it can be played in short bursts and can be entertaining for the rest of your life.

My point is that MMORPG's should be time consuming thats their appeal to me and to many others so if you have no time playing then simply don't play.

Clearly it's not for many others because if the majority of the MMO-playing community wanted games that were time-consuming, MMOs would be made that way!

This is just one more case of someone who can't separate wishful thinking from reality.

Those people really don't belong but devs makes money out of them so what to do?

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 They aren't complaining about MMORPG.  Nothing in those letters state or imply long term commitments.  They are complaining about the belief some have that it means long term.  It doesn't.

You are stating that if you don't think they way I do, because I believe that MMORPG is for long term commitment, than MMORPG are not for you.  Which is of course an absurd statement. 

[mod edit]

 It's not absurd because I say it it.  It is absurd because, once again:

1.  Nothing in MMORPG implies a specific or relative length of time.

2.  A long term commitment is just your belief.  Limiting someone from an activity they are allowed to participate in, and devs are welcoming because you belief it to be wrong - that is absurd, and bigotted too actually. 

edit - your real mmoprg player statement reinforces this bigotted belief.  That because someoen doesn't or play mmo's like you do, they are not real mmo players is bigotted.

Perhaps those of us who prefer to play our games by roleplaying a character living in a virtual world setting should instead push for a reclassification of the acronym to describe our genre,  MMRPGO instead of MMO whatever since apparently even calling it a Classic MMORPG is now too broad a term and leaves some players confused as to what type of game they are playing and what to expect? 

MMO has become too open a term now that pretty much any game is being ported to some form of online play and seems to make those who prefer to play other genres online feel that only their preferred genre is what is meant, no matter what it prefaces and anything that doesn't fall into their definition of what they want or expect should be changed when in fact they may just be trying to play something other than the genre they want? 

Some players prefer nothing but combat and feel anything not related to it doesn't belong in their game and therefore games like LOL or CoD etc are made for their market, whereas because I prefer open world rpgs where my character has options on how to develop their character outside of combat in order to live their virtual life within the game setting, with no plans to ever hit end game(call it death if you want since that's what happens when your life hits the end), I do NOT try to play LOL or CoD and expect my type of game to become part of them.   That would be like eating an onion and expecting it to taste like a carrot because they both grow in the ground.

Anyway, I came across this blog, check it out if you're in doubt as to the type of MMO you want/like/lobby for, it's worth a read.

http://www.devilsmmo.com/blog/mmo-genres-explained

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2560

3/14/13 5:09:33 PM#210

Bite size is fine for games that I expect it from, FPS type, but my MMO, I like more sandbox type play, so I don't think I need to say much more.  I play themeparks, but only the ones with sandbox elements are the ones I play for a while.  I played one session of GW2 and it just seemed to something, too hand fed, cluttered with quest guys or something, me and the wife just did not like it....

 

I am really hoping that AA or EQN, and titles like that have a good balance of themepark and sandbox, while the OP wants hack/slash and pure 'go', I enjoy the depth of harvesting/crafting (if done right, if its worthless and thoughtless, just thrown in to say you got it, no thanks), pve, pvp...I generally play 1 mmo at a time, I will play other stuff, like LoL, Civ, Starcraft, and such, but only 1 mmo, and it usually is the majority of my play time, when I can find such a mmo that I enjoy.

 

If I don't have time to play a time based mmo, I will play the fps or something 'bite-sized', but even time based mmos like old EQ, I could hop on and do something 'bite-sized', I would log my guy out in a area that I wanted to do something in, log in play for 10-20 minutes, log off and such.  I never had a problem doing small play time and feeling like I was accomplishing something myself.

 

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4309

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/14/13 5:13:18 PM#211

Sounds fine to me.  There should be games for long term and short term or even just short segments in a long term game. 

As multiplayer games and co-op games are able to handle more and more people, and as MMO's incorporate elements that people like from other games, the lines are definately being blurred.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3422

3/14/13 5:22:02 PM#212
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen

I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?

Don't play with me. I don't play games with commitment. Games are just entertainment.

That's just it....MMORPG's take comitment unlike console gaming where you can save and quit when you please. Or even other forms of PC gaming where generally you can save and quit on a whim.

You sure seem to be committed to campaigning for the dumbing down and altering of the MMORPG genre though I must say. Still haven't answered my question (Near the end of the pst)  from my page 17 post either.

I love how you people just declare what MMOs are.  Who died and made you an expert?  The fact is, MMOs are whatever the people who make them and the people who play them decide that they are.  No matter how much expertise you think you have, nobody has any obligation to pay any attention to what you say.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7649

Logic be damned!

3/14/13 5:25:38 PM#213
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by BadSpock

The most popular / financially successful game is/was already this way.

And they even work out (at least used to last time I played which was a while ago) when you factor in the availability of longer play sessions.

Using WoW as an example -

Quick: hop in and do a quest or two - minimum reward for minimum time investment (5-20 minutes)

Quick-Medium: dungeon or battleground using LFG - pretty quick to average time investment (maybe 20-60 minutes) and average/normalized reward

Medium - Long: Raid - 60 minutes - 4+ hours best reward in the game, longest time commitment.

The problem is that you/we, the user, wanted to play in 10-30 minute bites and get the same rewards as the 1-4+ hour dedicated players.

Here's the truth - you/we don't deserve it!

Want the best? Dedicate yourself to the time investment.

Don't have the time?

Slowly chip away / work towards 2nd best one bit as a time.

Shouldn't have ever changed.

They already once had single encounter raids (easily 10-30 minutes tops) and massive 4+ hour crawls.

 

Why?  If someone does X, they should get the rewards for X.  That means that a person playing for 10 minutes and can do X, gets whatever rewards are coming to them.  Someone who can play for 100 minutes and does 10 of X, should get 10x the rewards for doing 10x the content.  Why should anyone deserve more or less based on how long they play?  It should be based on what they actually accomplish.

its like watching 5 half hour episodes of a show or a 2 1/2 hour movie.

 

there's a big difference

Now Playing: D3:RoS
Looking Towards: Destiny

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/14/13 5:31:10 PM#214
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen

I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?

Don't play with me. I don't play games with commitment. Games are just entertainment.

That's just it....MMORPG's take comitment unlike console gaming where you can save and quit when you please. Or even other forms of PC gaming where generally you can save and quit on a whim.

You sure seem to be committed to campaigning for the dumbing down and altering of the MMORPG genre though I must say. Still haven't answered my question (Near the end of the pst)  from my page 17 post either.

I love how you people just declare what MMOs are.  Who died and made you an expert?  The fact is, MMOs are whatever the people who make them and the people who play them decide that they are.  No matter how much expertise you think you have, nobody has any obligation to pay any attention to what you say.

Well I have played them since 1998....and I personally think they are MMORPG's. Thanks for clarifying my rights. =)

 

Could just as easily say what makes you and several others I won't name (Because the mods here seem to love them, or be their alt accounts?) but many can guess who...such experts on what the masses want and what makes quality games just the same huh. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

  Aelious

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2258

World > Quest Progression

3/14/13 5:35:33 PM#215
Um, most MMOs, read not all, are designed for both small and large time commitments and are rewarded as such. Since they are designed that way it's safe to assume that MMOs = time commitment of some sort.
  DancingQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/12
Posts: 210

3/14/13 5:40:09 PM#216
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen

I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?

Don't play with me. I don't play games with commitment. Games are just entertainment.

That's just it....MMORPG's take comitment unlike console gaming where you can save and quit when you please. Or even other forms of PC gaming where generally you can save and quit on a whim.

You sure seem to be committed to campaigning for the dumbing down and altering of the MMORPG genre though I must say. Still haven't answered my question (Near the end of the pst)  from my page 17 post either.

I love how you people just declare what MMOs are.  Who died and made you an expert?  The fact is, MMOs are whatever the people who make them and the people who play them decide that they are.  No matter how much expertise you think you have, nobody has any obligation to pay any attention to what you say.

And yet you did... paid attention that is.

There is World of Warcraft for you and it's dozen of halfbaked clones which allow you to play with zero social interaction and in small bite sized chunks.

Myself... I have high hopes on ArchAge and EverQuest Next which are on the other side of the spectrum.

  Apraxis

Elite Member

Joined: 9/28/05
Posts: 1240

3/14/13 5:57:59 PM#217
Originally posted by nariusseldon

I was reading this article:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/06/neverwinter-days-the-allure-of-bite-sized-gaming/#continued

"the game model seems to have a lot more in common with lobby-based MMOs. That's not a coincidence, as Neverwinter originally began as such and was fleshed out into a more full-featured MMO at Perfect World's insistence."

And i think .. there is a lot of truth in this idea. Look at successful games (use xfire as a guide)

MMO: WOW & GW2

- both have options to let players jump in, play a bit, and accomplish something.

ARPG: D3, PoE

- again, can jump in and kill some stuff for even 15 min and get a chance of good drops.

PvP: LOL, PS2, WOT, DOTA2

- all can jump in and starting playing in seconds.

And the interesting thing is that these are not all instanced lobby. While instanced lobby is clear one design to enable bite-size gaming (hence, this feature is so popular, almost in all MMOs), there are other ways to do it.

For example, PS2 is a world pvp game. But once in the game, you can directly port to a hot spot, snipe a few enemies, and log out if you don't have much time.

MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change.

 

Bite size gaming? Srsly? In Dota2 you have to play 60 min straight.. if you leave before you get punished for leaving which leads to waiting queues up to 30 mins. And Dota is a MoBA a RTS child, a game used to play in small groups and lobbies,, but it is anything but bite size gaming.. not to talk about MMOs.

With that said... as usual you dont know what you are talking.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/14/13 9:23:51 PM#218
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by DancingQueen

I don't want to play with people who are not committed and ''wife aggro'' seriously?

Don't play with me. I don't play games with commitment. Games are just entertainment.

That's just it....MMORPG's take comitment unlike console gaming where you can save and quit when you please. Or even other forms of PC gaming where generally you can save and quit on a whim.

You sure seem to be committed to campaigning for the dumbing down and altering of the MMORPG genre though I must say. Still haven't answered my question (Near the end of the pst)  from my page 17 post either.

I love how you people just declare what MMOs are.  Who died and made you an expert?  The fact is, MMOs are whatever the people who make them and the people who play them decide that they are.  No matter how much expertise you think you have, nobody has any obligation to pay any attention to what you say.

Exactly and guess what, I'm not the only one calling these games MMORPGS, heh, call it a trend eh?

http://store.na.square-enix.com/store/sqenixus/en_US/pd/productID.264017000#.UUJ9VVeU3p8

"FINAL FANTASY XI Seekers Edition brings together all of the greatest FINAL FANTASY 11 online role-playing expansions" - is a mmorpg

https://www.everquest2.com/get-started

"EverQuest II sets the standard for MMORPG online gaming." - is a mmorpg

http://uo.com/Welcome-Britannia

"It's an expansive, immersive sandbox world enjoyed by thousands of players all over the world every day. It's an innovative and unmatched experience in the realm of massively multiplayer online role playing games. It's a world in which you can not only fight, craft, create, explore, and triumph...but a world in which you can live. And it's still so much more than that." - is a mmorpg

Compare that if you will to:

https://www.soe.com/

"PlanetSide 2 is a Massively Multiplayer first person shooter" - not a mmorpg

http://www.ccpgames.com/en/products/dust-514

"DUST 514 is a First Person Shooter (FPS) and strategy experience set within the EVE universe." - not a mmorpg

https://www.google.ca/search

<p kv"="">www.leagueoflegends.com/3 days ago – Official website for League of Legends. Join millions of players in an award winning Multiplayer Online Battle Arena. - not a mmorpg

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 2881

For the Queen!

3/14/13 9:28:09 PM#219
I still don't understand where people think some MMOs are "casual".  WoW seems to be the biggest target when someone wants to complain about "casual" gaming, but if you haven't ran a raid, then you'll notice that isn't for jumping in and playing for a few minutes.  The old 3 raid dungeons in pandaria take at least an hour, if you don't wipe on normal setting.  They take even longer on heroic.  The new Raid, Throne of Thunder, seems to be able to take 6 hours+ to complete...that's not casual.  My guild back in vanilla used to take only 4 hours to run MC...

  Phelcher

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 1133

3/15/13 12:21:00 AM#220

Everyone here, keeps giving specific examples. So the mechanic get lost..

 

Most here are unable to seperate their idea's from how kewl one of their past Fav character's could've been, etc..  They are using wishes, as ideas.

That^ is not how u design a world.

 

 

MMORPG were not games.. they were world simulators. Stop trying to make them a game..

All these companies keep trying to make a game, with all kinds of content, instead of just making their own exotic world...  & tagline it with:   "A world so unique, it may take you & your friends 5 years to explore...  unless you get lost two months exploring a dungeon.."        <--- type slogan.

 

That is the problem here. We have people like Narius trying to re-define what a MMORPG is, & trying to interject all his MMO marketing bs, into a mmorpg thread/discussion.

He then keeps claiming (thus fueling his 5 month crusade for mcirotransaction, GW2 nonsense, etc..) that this is a MMO website and at every oppertunity will bring up GW2, or anything other than what the community is talking about.

 

 

Bite-size gaming:

Once a particular game is defined, then discussing how those players acheive/accomplish (their goals + time allotments) things.

 

Personally, any role playing game is about the challenge. Even if the most challenging things never payed off, if you came across enough of them, once & a while you or your friends were rewarded with something to be "talked about in town"...

Now kids today start out with magical everything... because their are playing an arcade game, not a roleplaying one.  

 

"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


-Nariusseldon

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