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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » XP grind. Mob or Quest?

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127 posts found
  coretex666

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1839

"I shall take your position into consideration"

3/14/13 12:11:00 PM#81
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by TheJoda

I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed.  I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it  BUILT player relationships! 

 

Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.

Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.

 

Why 30+ players? Why not 25? We have games such as WoW that do 25 player raids. Is there something magical about 30+ or is it just a way to exclude WoW?

 

WoW also has 40 player World Bosses now...so your wish has been granted...

Latest world boss (Oondasta) added in 5.2 is currently killed in groups of 80-200 people.

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Ghavrigg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 730

3/14/13 12:13:15 PM#82

I find grinding mobs to be better, but it needs to be mixed up. Like, keep XP gain limited to mobs, but give quest chains as you level that tell a story, and has some epic moments and boss fights, and reward you with items and coin.

Actually, achievement systems could take the place of regular quests. Say, an achievement to "Kill 100 Super Raptors in the Blarney Hills", and when you do so, you get the achievement and rewards.

Basically, in the end, progression needs to be mixed up a little to ward off boredom, because all of one or the other just isn't very fun, in my opinion.

But at the very least, tone down questing.

 

  GGrimm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/13
Posts: 50

3/14/13 12:15:42 PM#83

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

  User Deleted
3/14/13 12:32:43 PM#84
Originally posted by GGrimm

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

 

I thought returning to the MMO past/roots is what people here dream about....

  DavisFlight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2594

3/14/13 12:37:19 PM#85

Mob grinding was far FAR superior. It allowed you to pick your own level of difficulty, it encouraged socializing, it let you explore where you wanted, and it was honest.

We knew it was a grind, but at least the game wasn't trying to gussy it up and give you chores and then call them "Quests". The game respected you more.

  GGrimm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/13
Posts: 50

3/14/13 12:53:45 PM#86
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by GGrimm

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

 

I thought returning to the MMO past/roots is what people here dream about....

The baby doesn't need to get tossed out with the bathwater.

XP is just such a core assumption among gamers (including people like myself who come form the pen-and-paper tradition) that letting go of it will open up a new horizon of game development opportunities. Everyone who has played MMOs has seen the man behind the curtain that is the XP grind.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7640

3/14/13 1:22:34 PM#87
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by GGrimm

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

 

I thought returning to the MMO past/roots is what people here dream about....

and AoW. 

 

If there are quest they should give almost nothing. Same with mob grinds. The thing is, this means the developer has to think, and create other systems.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

 
OP  3/14/13 2:54:24 PM#88


Originally posted by Psychow
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. ...


Can't say I'm surprised. I'd rather spend online time talking with players (mob grinding) rather than NPCs (quest grinding). TBH, questing is far more mindless than interacting with other humans.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20539

3/14/13 3:16:11 PM#89
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Psychow
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. ...

 


Can't say I'm surprised. I'd rather spend online time talking with players (mob grinding) rather than NPCs (quest grinding). TBH, questing is far more mindless than interacting with other humans.

You are confused. Mob grinding is fighting the same mob over and over again.

If you want to chat, just chat. You can do it in any game with a chat channel. If you are questing, you can always choose to rest a moment and chat.

Chatting is not a part of mob grinding gameplay. In fact, you mob grind in Diablo, diablo 2 and Diablo 3. Do you see many chatting?

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

 
OP  3/14/13 7:11:51 PM#90


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Arclan  

Originally posted by Psychow I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. ...
  Can't say I'm surprised. I'd rather spend online time talking with players (mob grinding) rather than NPCs (quest grinding). TBH, questing is far more mindless than interacting with other humans.
You are confused. Mob grinding is fighting the same mob over and over again.

If you want to chat, just chat. You can do it in any game with a chat channel. If you are questing, you can always choose to rest a moment and chat.

Chatting is not a part of mob grinding gameplay. In fact, you mob grind in Diablo, diablo 2 and Diablo 3. Do you see many chatting?


You are confusing Diablo with an MMO, friend.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/15/13 3:31:16 AM#91
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by GGrimm

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

 

I thought returning to the MMO past/roots is what people here dream about....

and AoW. 

 

If there are quest they should give almost nothing. Same with mob grinds. The thing is, this means the developer has to think, and create other systems.

I don't hold that quests should give 'almost nothing.'  Just that they shouldn't give XP.  Other rewards - gold, reputation, whatever, those are cool.

Just not XP.  Generally, anyway.

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 297

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/15/13 3:39:36 AM#92
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by GGrimm

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

 

I thought returning to the MMO past/roots is what people here dream about....

and AoW. 

 

If there are quest they should give almost nothing. Same with mob grinds. The thing is, this means the developer has to think, and create other systems.

I don't hold that quests should give 'almost nothing.'  Just that they shouldn't give XP.  Other rewards - gold, reputation, whatever, those are cool.

Just not XP.  Generally, anyway.

Depends on the quest, I agree that collecting apples for nanny shouldn't give exp... but depending on the kind of quest your doing, it should give exp.

Personally I wish more games diversified your combat training into more than killing stuff, like real training, it could be "quests" to attend fencing lessons to enable working sword attacks, or running an obstercal course to make you stronger. There are ways to make combat, whether your pursuing quest or grinding mobs, less operation intensive yet still visually and tactically entertaining so you can socialize more, but whether you quest or grind mobs, you can still be to busy to socialize. I mean look at any action MMO, what if all your exp was from grinding?, you still have to mash buttons and maneuver constantly so your not going to be talking about jack...

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/15/13 3:56:34 AM#93
Originally posted by BahamutKaiser
Originally posted by KaosProphet
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Psychow
Originally posted by GGrimm

Neither.

Get rid of xp grind and use a time-based system similar to Eve. Games with XP grind are stuck in the past.

 

I thought returning to the MMO past/roots is what people here dream about....

and AoW. 

 

If there are quest they should give almost nothing. Same with mob grinds. The thing is, this means the developer has to think, and create other systems.

I don't hold that quests should give 'almost nothing.'  Just that they shouldn't give XP.  Other rewards - gold, reputation, whatever, those are cool.

Just not XP.  Generally, anyway.

Depends on the quest, I agree that collecting apples for nanny shouldn't give exp... but depending on the kind of quest your doing, it should give exp.

Personally I wish more games diversified your combat training into more than killing stuff, like real training, it could be "quests" to attend fencing lessons to enable working sword attacks, or running an obstercal course to make you stronger. There are ways to make combat, whether your pursuing quest or grinding mobs, less operation intensive yet still visually and tactically entertaining so you can socialize more, but whether you quest or grind mobs, you can still be to busy to socialize. I mean look at any action MMO, what if all your exp was from grinding?, you still have to mash buttons and maneuver constantly so your not going to be talking about jack...

Ingame VOIP is a thing these days, and it tends to sidestep around that particular competition.

I may be old-school on a few things, but there are some things modern games are bringing up that I do appreciate.  This is one of them.

  oubers

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 889

3/15/13 4:24:17 AM#94

Gaming has changed alot over the years imho, so much even that alot of you can not even think out of the box anymore....its all OR quest grind OR mob grinding.......when i look back to the years of UO it had neither of those and i could not wait to get home from work to login.

There were no quests, no XP.......just skillpoint that you could train to develope the character you were playing.

Skills like magery, fencing, swordsmanship, provoking, taming, blacksmithing, mining, musicianship, cooking, fishing, cartography, wrestling, tailoring, tinkering and more.

I remember i couldn't choose wether i would go fighting in a dungeon or graveyard or fishing.....or just go looking for herbs in the forests and shaving a sheep for there wool when i saw one running in those same woods.....or maybe make me some dye's or redecorate my house a bit.....go out and mark me some runes for mining spots or dungeons to create my own dungeon recall book en mining recall spots book.

The options where almost endless and all this without quests or having to grind for XP......just have fun doing some skills you want to and get a gain in that skill once every hour :)

Selling your stuff was people around the bank in town just yelling "selling blablabla" or "get your rune to my shop here".....hell alot of them even opened gates to there shops.

Back then people talked in game and it was like the virtual world a real mmorpg needs to be imho.

Now all mmo's are just lobby games.....the virtual expirience is no more.

But if that's what the people like, that's what you will get.

I just hope that someday a new UO comes out in a real 3D world......that would be awesome (but that prolly won't happen).

 

So my point to the OP is.....there should be no poison, just fun.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20539

3/15/13 5:41:28 PM#95
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Arclan  

Originally posted by Psychow I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. ...
  Can't say I'm surprised. I'd rather spend online time talking with players (mob grinding) rather than NPCs (quest grinding). TBH, questing is far more mindless than interacting with other humans.
You are confused. Mob grinding is fighting the same mob over and over again.

 

If you want to chat, just chat. You can do it in any game with a chat channel. If you are questing, you can always choose to rest a moment and chat.

Chatting is not a part of mob grinding gameplay. In fact, you mob grind in Diablo, diablo 2 and Diablo 3. Do you see many chatting?


 

You are confusing Diablo with an MMO, friend.

Close enough for me. You go in, run some dungeons with friends. Do some AH and crafting. Isn't most players play WOW like that?

  steelheartx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 409

3/15/13 5:46:33 PM#96
Would much rather do a mob grind during the leveling process than at the end in the disguised form of dailies.

Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20539

3/15/13 5:48:04 PM#97
Originally posted by steelheartx
Would much rather do a mob grind during the leveling process than at the end in the disguised form of dailies.

What is the difference? You kill lots of mobs in both situations. It is not like they change the combat mechanics.

  BahamutKaiser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 297

On hiatus for a while guys, MMOs still aren't interesting me.

3/15/13 6:11:35 PM#98

@Kaos Prophet :)

VoIP allows you to communicate during an action game, but it isn't adequate to socialize, when your gameplay is intense and input intensive, you simply can't form casual conversations as effectively. Unfortunately action gameplay works almost inversely against social enrichment, VoIP may increase communication and depending on how difficult the game is, it may be possible for some ppl to socialize, but it certainly isn't an environment that fosters it.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  User Deleted
3/16/13 12:20:16 AM#99

Killing mobs is what is the most fun for me in mmorpgs, aside from pvp.

Nothing i hate more than spending level 1-max running back and forth between NPC's quest hubs, and killing fields.

Bring back the art of progressing at my own pace via killing mobs...but not like a crappy grinder where the mobs are worthless on multiple levels.  Loot needs to be rewarding and rare.  There needs to be diversity depending on what you kill and what you get.  There needs to be stuff beyond maybe getting good gear drops...materials to farm like in a sandbox.

And really the ONLY place this farming on mobs exists is in sandboxes.

MMORPG's have turned into fetch quests, fedex quests, running back and forth..and occasionally you get to kill 5-15 of the mobs in the area, once, as your racing past them fed-ex'ing to the next hub.

 

Im glad so many people here miss this, mmorpgs need to go back to progressing via mob kills, at your own pace.  Get rid of the oh so boring 5man dungeons, bring back 7-8 man dungeons with pullers, cc's, heals, tank dps ect.  no more instanced dungeons, open world public dungeons.

Wont ever happen...went the way of the sandbox beyond pvp.

 

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1159

3/18/13 12:16:29 AM#100
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Arclan  

Originally posted by Psychow I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. ...
  Can't say I'm surprised. I'd rather spend online time talking with players (mob grinding) rather than NPCs (quest grinding). TBH, questing is far more mindless than interacting with other humans.
You are confused. Mob grinding is fighting the same mob over and over again.

 

If you want to chat, just chat. You can do it in any game with a chat channel. If you are questing, you can always choose to rest a moment and chat.

Chatting is not a part of mob grinding gameplay. In fact, you mob grind in Diablo, diablo 2 and Diablo 3. Do you see many chatting?


 

You are confusing Diablo with an MMO, friend.

Close enough for me. You go in, run some dungeons with friends. Do some AH and crafting. Isn't most players play WOW like that?

Yes, Blizzard's take on RPG's is very similiar to Blizzard's take on RPG's.... cannot believe I had to type that.

This debate is off, however.  Really what people are debating is downtime versus constant activity.   Games which had downtime built into them (as a time sink, if you like), like FFXI, Everquest, Lineage, and Eve Online have a much better social element than games where you're constantly engaging with NPC's, quest givers, or running to the next quest giver.

I don't want to speak for every one of the older crowd, but in general the older games like more strategic combat (more thought, less twitch) and more social gameplay (have to make friends and communicate to get things done). For many of us the appeal is the community, much moreso than the gameplay, and what gameplay there is, we want it to be a littly more cerebral. It used to be when you played games you had to decide when to use a spel or skill.  Now adays the 'when" is whenever it refreshes on your hotkey. .  When GW2 announced that you had to dodge attacks there were a million groans of protest, because we don't want to dodge attacks, we want to roleplay characters who can dodge atttacks.

Many of the posters on this thread never have had the satisfaction of working together with 70 other players, using 3 chat channels simultaneously to take down a bad ass god or dragon that you've tried four times previously and failed.  The feeling of community and accomplishment you get from doing that can't be replaced by anything else.

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