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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do LFG System really ruin the community?

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385 posts found
  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1939

3/14/13 6:39:49 AM#61
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
The reall communities exist in guilds. LFG or no LFG the communities are ruined anyways.

Guilds tend to have a negative impact too, it often creates anti-social bubbles.

While people tend to socialise within the guild, if the concept of guilds becomes too powerful, people tend to retract themselves from the world and start to live in their guild bubble.

  Emrendil

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 200

3/14/13 6:42:04 AM#62
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Emrendil
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Emrendil

 

From wich games is this and how old?

Everquest, March 2005.

Yep, pretty old. The younger generation of players never played those games before. They were too young. They started with Rift, tera or Guild Wars 2. If you give them EverQuest to try now, they'll probably hate it.

SoE uses classic servers, that are started from scratch, they do this every 3 years or so. In every server I played the same community was built.

And EQ non-classic, is not the same anymore as old EQ, for many reasons which I don't feel like explaining, multiboxing, guild lobbies etc.

But try the game when Sony releases a pure classic server and the exact same communities form. It is very much the game, it has didly squat to do with the players.

Well, each game has it's own community. You just have to find the one you like.

  tupodawg999

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 623

3/14/13 7:07:02 AM#63
No, those systems are a symptom of other things being wrong already e.g. not enough tanks and healers or not enough grouping early on for people to develop a community in the first place.
  xeniar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 817

3/14/13 7:19:13 AM#64
Originally posted by tupodawg999
No, those systems are a symptom of other things being wrong already e.g. not enough tanks and healers or not enough grouping early on for people to develop a community in the first place.

Translated: Making the game soloable is a bad design for an MMO because it doesn't improve community. People roll dps because soloing with a tank or healer is painfully long. (i should know i leveld every expansion as a tank (WoW)).

  kostantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/05
Posts: 29

3/14/13 8:42:01 AM#65

Well put in gereral Calm Ocean

However, I can also agree with many posters here on some topics

1) the LFG is just a tool and can work if implemented correctly (in our case, with socialization in mind, i.e. how about an LFG tool that introduces some mechanics for conversation, goal setting, time frame etc? -- i said it and trademark it : )  )

2) While it seems that 10 years are not too much, people do indeed change, the industry is more open, add to that the *evil* new generation of insta-gratification enthousiasts etc (all over-analized in other posts). It's simply an expanded audience now, that simply prefers (?) other things. no more satisfied to be niche.

3) One other aspect many people seem to voluntarily ingore, even though they probably do it themselves is this: game mechanics and structure. Yes, let's suppose we have all played the hardcore old days mmorpgs. today it seems that the games themselves are removing incentives to socialize. why? see 2) above. however, many old timers do play those new games and often find the "easy-mode" a bit convenient themselves, they just hate to admit it.

And, despite the fact that "if you don't like it, don't use it", it has been proven over and over again that people (sheeeep) always ake the path of least resistance.... its nature's way, sorry. If you don't force them to socialize, they will not (most of the time). Be that harder content or whatever.

The argument about social people already having friends is moot and stupid. They do not have friends if the game does not promote socialization, which brings us again to the point where THESE GAMES WERE AIMED AT PEOPLE WANTING TO SOCIALIZE in VIRTUAL WORLDS! and they were....... ROLE-PLAYING games! (sscreams etc). SOrry but that is the truth. And it also true that now they are not aiming at the same crowd. (See also point 5 below).

4) Important : I saw some people saying that they don't want to wait in ques and try to get groups to get things going etc, they just want to play the game.... My friends, that WAS the game (or a very big part of it). The searching, the "lost" hours, the "downtime"... FFS downtime???? are we serious? what are we? a production factory?

5) While there was a time that these games offered socialization pleasure to us nerds, and an escapade to being heroes and not mouth-breathing sludges with 5cm thick glasses, now we have a plethora of social networking tools that can take care of that, and here we are, after WoW's success, having mmos being the next single-player experence for the masses

6) Don't get me started on F2P with its 2-3 months focus time and complete @@@ (2 @@ because i grew a pair being uber in easy-peasy mmos and @ because i need a bot*cough* another player i meant, but he is a newb for healing in case things get more complicated than mashing 3 buttons 200 times per second) for creating or retaining a community.

phew, that's was it, please read and comment, sorry for typos i am in a hurry to jump from quest to quest, my exp/gold per minute is low so i cannot spend time here, soz gtg

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

3/14/13 8:45:55 AM#66

I'd disagree the LFG ruins anything.

If something as trivial as an LFG tools 'ruins' a community, was it really a community to begin with?

LFG is a tool.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  User Deleted
3/14/13 9:12:06 AM#67

It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

 

The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

 

Community is that thing that has been long lost in MMOs ever since the advent of LFG...  that vibrant life created by the player base in game... you know, the hours of dancing naked in some city while chewing the fat with fellow guildies.  The not realizing that you've spent nearly 8 hours doing absolutely nothing in game but just talking with your friends.  The idea of running some dungeon, not for loot, but merely for fun... an opportunity to just joke around with friends.

 

The game isn't anything like it used to be... it's not better... just easier.  Easier at the expense community.  If you didn't experience MMOs pre-LFG, you have no idea what you are missing.  Sure, you can complain about having to form your own groups... but if you took the time to make friends in game, you'd have ample people for a group.  I remember playing 24 hours straight just running dungeons with friends and not even realizing it.  None of us needed anything from the dungeons, in fact we ran most of them naked... we just were having too much fun joking around.  THAT'S COMMUNITY.  What you have now is NOT.

  kostantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/05
Posts: 29

3/14/13 9:20:21 AM#68
Originally posted by pmiles

It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

 

The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

 

Community is that thing that has been long lost in MMOs ever since the advent of LFG...  that vibrant life created by the player base in game... you know, the hours of dancing naked in some city while chewing the fat with fellow guildies.  The not realizing that you've spent nearly 8 hours doing absolutely nothing in game but just talking with your friends.  The idea of running some dungeon, not for loot, but merely for fun... an opportunity to just joke around with friends.

 

The game isn't anything like it used to be... it's not better... just easier.  Easier at the expense community.  If you didn't experience MMOs pre-LFG, you have no idea what you are missing.  Sure, you can complain about having to form your own groups... but if you took the time to make friends in game, you'd have ample people for a group.  I remember playing 24 hours straight just running dungeons with friends and not even realizing it.  None of us needed anything from the dungeons, in fact we ran most of them naked... we just were having too much fun joking around.  THAT'S COMMUNITY.  What you have now is NOT.

THIS *bows*

and i have to say again Role-Playing!

please note that PR now dictates that new games developed are MMOs not MMORPGs. Also, with the advent of the large masses, RP is laughable at best, despised at worst... in mmoRPGs!

P.S. LotRO has good things going for it in terms of community and RP, but F2P turning to plain greed is doing what it can to ruin it

  Skuall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 862

3/14/13 10:56:45 AM#69

since the implemetation in other mmorpgs i was going to say YES! but after playing some mmorpgs where u dont have LFG System....meh community nowadays ruin itself.

We are no longer a server brotherhood , is every man for himself (other than friends ) not even guildmates care about others in today mmos

can i live w/o a lfg system? yes ,but i miss it if the mmorpg doesnt have it :( 

 

its really helpfull , no1 likes to shout for 1h LF healer/tank , or even 1M

helps low lvl dungeons , so new players can experience dungeons while leveling and become better players

 

  xeniar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 817

3/14/13 11:35:16 AM#70
Originally posted by pmiles

It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

 

The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

 

Community is that thing that has been long lost in MMOs ever since the advent of LFG...  that vibrant life created by the player base in game... you know, the hours of dancing naked in some city while chewing the fat with fellow guildies.  The not realizing that you've spent nearly 8 hours doing absolutely nothing in game but just talking with your friends.  The idea of running some dungeon, not for loot, but merely for fun... an opportunity to just joke around with friends.

 

The game isn't anything like it used to be... it's not better... just easier.  Easier at the expense community.  If you didn't experience MMOs pre-LFG, you have no idea what you are missing.  Sure, you can complain about having to form your own groups... but if you took the time to make friends in game, you'd have ample people for a group.  I remember playing 24 hours straight just running dungeons with friends and not even realizing it.  None of us needed anything from the dungeons, in fact we ran most of them naked... we just were having too much fun joking around.  THAT'S COMMUNITY.  What you have now is NOT.

oh wow,

your sir are far better with words then me :D

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20587

3/14/13 11:36:08 AM#71

Spamming LFG in chat is not my idea of playing a game.

Community is not that important anyway. There is few games that you cannot find some decent people to play with. Heck, there are even good people to play with in ARPGs, and other non-MMOs.

So LFG is pretty much a must feature for me.

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2547

World > Quest Progression

3/14/13 11:59:21 AM#72
It's not the LFG feature that ruins the community, it's the "I don't care about you because I'll requeue after this is over" attitude.

I play MMOs becaus I like being around real life people so by default the community is important. If you want to be an isolationist in a world of others more power to you.
  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

3/14/13 12:04:21 PM#73

I think x-server LFD tool was great for wow for the 1-79 crowd (cap was 80 when it released). Back then and it is still that way even with the x-server zones, you could got 1-79 without seeing more than one or two people in each zone, so an x-server lfd tool to me is a good solution for this. No community was being formed at those times anyway. I don't think it should be in the game at release though.

I think a same server LFD tool for end game that doesn't leap you to the destination would be fine, and should be in the game at release, but with x-server LFD at endgame it's barely an MMO anymore for anyone who doesn't raid except that there are people to compete with over the 8 billion daily quests you have to grind every day.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20587

3/14/13 12:12:15 PM#74
Originally posted by Aelious
It's not the LFG feature that ruins the community, it's the "I don't care about you because I'll requeue after this is over" attitude.

I play MMOs becaus I like being around real life people so by default the community is important. If you want to be an isolationist in a world of others more power to you.

Just play with your friends.

Personally, i will hit the quit button if there is anything i don't like in my group. It is a good feature. There is no reason i should put up with anyone when i want to have fun .. and they shouldn't put up with me either.

This "community is important" cliche ... is just too vague and general. If i can meet enough people to have fun (and occasionally hit the quit button), why do i need to care if the other 10 million people i will never meet are nice or not?

Plus, i have enough RL friends & family. I am not really seeking life-long friendship in GAMES.

So it is not about being an isolationist. It is about having fun with others, and not worry about lofty ideas like "community" or "good of the human kind".

  Pie_Rat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/05
Posts: 310

3/14/13 12:20:11 PM#75

I think cross realm LFG ruins community feel, not same server LFG.

Me, I don't like either, they ruin immersion. I prefer looking for a group through chat and travelling to the dungeon on a mount.

Currently playing: Football Manager 2015.

Getting more kicks out of a single player sports RPG than any MMO on the market. A sad state of affairs indeed...

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20587

3/14/13 12:22:50 PM#76
Originally posted by Pie_Rat

I think cross realm LFG ruins community feel, not same server LFG.

Me, I don't like either, they ruin immersion. I prefer looking for a group through chat and travelling to the dungeon on a mount.

I would rather break some immersion than wasting my time.

In fact, cross realm is great. Cross game is even better. It is not like you don't know the other player is a real human being who can play other games, or log into any server.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11789

3/14/13 12:23:42 PM#77
Originally posted by pmiles

It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

thats true if they are from different servers

less true if everyone is from the same server

 

some of my best times in Everquest was grouping with strangers while doing dungeons

- and making new friends   aka  the pickup group

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2547

World > Quest Progression

3/14/13 12:30:27 PM#78
LOL, it's not about seeking long term friendships in a game. If you just want to pay attention you a small group that's fine. I don't interact with everyone I see either but I expect people not to tuck in thier humanity when they log in. It's nice to be around pleasant people no matter where you are at the time.

It also depends in the game you play. Games where you rely more on others or where the population is small will typically have better communities. Too bad there aren't any I'm interested I right now. I may return to Vanguard though and that would be one reason why.
  zekeofev

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/11
Posts: 224

3/14/13 12:45:19 PM#79

LFD certainly does ruin socializing.

 

Lets say I have a smart phone and can search up buisnesses to go to in the area. I now will have no need to ask someone where the best place to go is. I simply look it up. Convient yes, but now I will meet one less person that I would of interacted with because of it.

 

LFD is a huge convience tool. But it means less socializing because of it. When I play Tera/WoW/GW2 I really do not have the same level of random social contacts as I had in games like EQ and AC.

 

 

 

 

I blame a lot of this on game design. Game lets you solo to max level but puts incentives on group play. This is why games like Rift where people would run up a to a rift to help you close it and leave without saying a word. Content was not difficult and there was not really any need to communicate.

 

I miss old school games styles so much.

  Holice

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/08
Posts: 118

3/14/13 12:46:20 PM#80

Many people forget that the whole reason they instituted this feature was because it was too difficult to find groups to run content, expecially lower level and previous patch content. People weren't running all that was available, and thus were getting bored and thus quitting.

How good of a social atmosphere does a game have with no players?

And the biggest joke is that many people who dislike this feature are the ones who had a small group of players they ran with and never cared about picking up a pug or helping a random.

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