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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Rooted in place

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207 posts found
  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 583

3/13/13 8:21:35 PM#141
Originally posted by Asm0deus
 

You guys have got to be kidding me, have you not ever played some of the old DOS games lol there were many many action games where you could attack while moving.

Name one.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/13/13 8:24:18 PM#142
imho rooting or not doesn't really matter overall(even though I do like the run and gun style) it's all about how it feels and plays.. if animations and skill transitions feel off or clunky then it brings down combat as a whole... for me all i think is they need to clean up a couple of the animations and smooth out skill to skill transitions and people will have much less issues with the "rooted" aspects of the game

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1387

3/13/13 9:04:56 PM#143

I don't care about past games.  I think rooting sucks.  It is possible to balance games without rooting ranged classes.  Most games have the mobs run a bit quicker than the player or a ranged attack. 

 

I think TERA destroyed me for self rooting.  It had a freaking root on instant spells.  I understand rooting in channeled spells, but it is not necessary for "balance" on instant spells.  We have some pretty smart people involved in the developement of games and I'm sure they can figure out ways to balance games without jerky stop start attacks.

 

I won't be playing ranged classes in NWN, which is fine.  Melee has rooting but it's more tolerable.

  goosie

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 69

3/13/13 10:07:00 PM#144
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

GW2 combat is NOT "action combat".  So many face palms in this thread.  People bringing up DOS games as a comparison and actually thinking GW2 is "action combat".  I cringed.  GW2 is a clunky tab/target type of game with a aimbot mechanic.  

It is easy to make games spammy and mindless.  It is harder to make games with thought and actual action combat.  There is a reason GW2 is a virtually dead game, because it offered no depth in terms of combat or gameplay.  It was mindless.

The future does not belong to lazy developers who take the easy way out with spammy and mindless combat.

The problem with Neverwinter is the crappy animations.

+1

Good to see there are some people that know what's up. I also don't like NW's combat, it is amateurish. But the problem does not stem from rooted animations, it's just overall lackluster in design, mechanics wise.

  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 800

3/13/13 10:56:38 PM#145
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

GW2 combat is NOT "action combat".  So many face palms in this thread.  People bringing up DOS games as a comparison and actually thinking GW2 is "action combat".  I cringed.  GW2 is a clunky tab/target type of game with a aimbot mechanic.  

It is easy to make games spammy and mindless.  It is harder to make games with thought and actual action combat.  There is a reason GW2 is a virtually dead game, because it offered no depth in terms of combat or gameplay.  It was mindless.

The future does not belong to lazy developers who take the easy way out with spammy and mindless combat.

The problem with Neverwinter is the crappy animations.

Facepalms ? Your the one that brought up GW2 with the assumption I was a GW2 fanatic.  For the rest of your post it's funny because rooting IS what lazy developers do.

 

GW2 is dead because of many many reasons and it's combat isn't the biggest reason but thats another subject altogether.

Rooting does not equate into better or smarter, like you say the future does not belong to developers that take the lazy, easy way to do something and that is what rooting is no matter how much they con you into thinking it provides more strategy. *snicker*

 

I will agree that better animations could make the issues with rooting much less problematic though yet this is Cryptic, do you really expect such a "lazy" developper to clean up its act?

 

Cryptics idea of solving a problem integrating 4E into a mmo format is simple, hey it's too much work and we are not competant enough so lets just cut that all out and avoid the issues or likewise in this case hey lets just root everyone and claim it's to make strategy more important !!!!

 

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  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2725

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/13/13 11:40:00 PM#146
Originally posted by evilastro
I didn't have any issues evading mid-attack in this beta round, so I am fine with the rooting. I can see how wizards and clerics reverse strafing while casting would end up being rediculous. The main issue I had with it last beta weekend was that my rogue would get locked in an animation and then get blasted by an AE that was completely avoidable. Now that is fixed I am fine with it.

As was stated in a Dev replu on the official forums back during BWE1, using your avoidance move is supposed to break what ever animation regardless and the teleport/dodge/sprint will automatically take precidence.  In BWE1 this was a huge issue for me on my Rogue as well.  In BWE2 it appears they did work on it as it worled a bit more fluidly but still 100% where I wanted it or where it needs to be.

 

On another topic, why do I like rooting in this game but not in Tera?  Well its as simple as the combat animations themselves being failry quick.  For example in Tera it might take .75 to 1.5 sec or longer to get off an ability but in NWO I have yet to see an animation take longer then .5 secs to complete (barring channel spells of course).  This is where the ac tion comes in, being able to fire off 2-3 abilities in the same time frame as 1 ability in Tera is a huge deal and goes a long way to speeding up the combat and giving it the appearance of action.  Whereas Tera I felt was not action'y at all. 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2725

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/13/13 11:41:29 PM#147
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

GW2 combat is NOT "action combat".  So many face palms in this thread.  People bringing up DOS games as a comparison and actually thinking GW2 is "action combat".  I cringed.  GW2 is a clunky tab/target type of game with a aimbot mechanic.  

It is easy to make games spammy and mindless.  It is harder to make games with thought and actual action combat.  There is a reason GW2 is a virtually dead game, because it offered no depth in terms of combat or gameplay.  It was mindless.

The future does not belong to lazy developers who take the easy way out with spammy and mindless combat.

The problem with Neverwinter is the crappy animations.

Facepalms ? Your the one that brought up GW2 with the assumption I was a GW2 fanatic.  For the rest of your post it's funny because rooting IS what lazy developers do.

 

GW2 is dead because of many many reasons and it's combat isn't the biggest reason but thats another subject altogether.

Rooting does not equate into better or smarter, like you say the future does not belong to developers that take the lazy, easy way to do something and that is what rooting is no matter how much they con you into thinking it provides more strategy. *snicker*

 

I will agree that better animations could make the issues with rooting much less problematic though yet this is Cryptic, do you really expect such a "lazy" developper to clean up its act?

 

Cryptics idea of solving a problem integrating 4E into a mmo format is simple, hey it's too much work and we are not competant enough so lets just cut that all out and avoid the issues or likewise in this case hey lets just root everyone and claim it's to make strategy more important !!!!

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 is by far not dead.  Far from it, and it continues to grow its playerbase every day.  Check the Forums if you don't believe me.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  JRRNeiklot

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/11
Posts: 102

3/13/13 11:56:11 PM#148
Neverwinter is D&D.  You've never been able to move and cast in D&D.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2931

I actually still like MMORPGs

3/14/13 12:01:48 AM#149
For melee it doesn't feel bad at all. But ya the Wizard feels off partly due to this and other things. I am normally a Clothie guy but I really fell in love with my Teifling Rogue so if I'm ok if Wizard doesn't end up working for me. I heard they are making some changes though so we will see how it goes.

  User Deleted
3/14/13 12:51:51 AM#150
Originally posted by goosie
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

GW2 combat is NOT "action combat".  So many face palms in this thread.  People bringing up DOS games as a comparison and actually thinking GW2 is "action combat".  I cringed.  GW2 is a clunky tab/target type of game with a aimbot mechanic.  

It is easy to make games spammy and mindless.  It is harder to make games with thought and actual action combat.  There is a reason GW2 is a virtually dead game, because it offered no depth in terms of combat or gameplay.  It was mindless.

The future does not belong to lazy developers who take the easy way out with spammy and mindless combat.

The problem with Neverwinter is the crappy animations.

+1

Good to see there are some people that know what's up. I also don't like NW's combat, it is amateurish. But the problem does not stem from rooted animations, it's just overall lackluster in design, mechanics wise.

GW2 combat is action combat. Reticle combat (you know, aiming) is a sub-genre of action combat. If anything, GW2 feels more action oriented than TERA, because the animation locks make movement useless aside from the most obvious telegraphed attacks.

Also virtually dead? Haha nice one, try getting into WvW and let me know how long it takes you. Takes me up to 3 hours, even on weeknights. That must be because noone is playing *rolls eyes*.  

  User Deleted
3/14/13 12:56:11 AM#151
Originally posted by Fendel84M
For melee it doesn't feel bad at all. But ya the Wizard feels off partly due to this and other things. I am normally a Clothie guy but I really fell in love with my Teifling Rogue so if I'm ok if Wizard doesn't end up working for me. I heard they are making some changes though so we will see how it goes.

For me it was the other way around. I felt that it was OK for ranged, but was slightly annoying for melee.

Personally I would prefer that At Will abilities were usable while moving, but Encounters and Dailys still root you.

  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 800

3/14/13 2:33:56 AM#152
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

GW2 combat is NOT "action combat".  So many face palms in this thread.  People bringing up DOS games as a comparison and actually thinking GW2 is "action combat".  I cringed.  GW2 is a clunky tab/target type of game with a aimbot mechanic.  

It is easy to make games spammy and mindless.  It is harder to make games with thought and actual action combat.  There is a reason GW2 is a virtually dead game, because it offered no depth in terms of combat or gameplay.  It was mindless.

The future does not belong to lazy developers who take the easy way out with spammy and mindless combat.

The problem with Neverwinter is the crappy animations.

Facepalms ? Your the one that brought up GW2 with the assumption I was a GW2 fanatic.  For the rest of your post it's funny because rooting IS what lazy developers do.

 

GW2 is dead because of many many reasons and it's combat isn't the biggest reason but thats another subject altogether.

Rooting does not equate into better or smarter, like you say the future does not belong to developers that take the lazy, easy way to do something and that is what rooting is no matter how much they con you into thinking it provides more strategy. *snicker*

 

I will agree that better animations could make the issues with rooting much less problematic though yet this is Cryptic, do you really expect such a "lazy" developper to clean up its act?

 

Cryptics idea of solving a problem integrating 4E into a mmo format is simple, hey it's too much work and we are not competant enough so lets just cut that all out and avoid the issues or likewise in this case hey lets just root everyone and claim it's to make strategy more important !!!!

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but GW2 is by far not dead.  Far from it, and it continues to grow its playerbase every day.  Check the Forums if you don't believe me.

GW2 being dead wasn't really my words and I  didn't want to argue a point about a game I don't play and I didn't want to bother to go see if he was correct even though last I read about the game it was doing fine even if there was some brouhaha about the new endgane dungeons. 

It's good to know he's full of balony on this point too though.

The only persons bubble you are popping is SoMuchMass.

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  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/14/13 6:43:27 AM#153

This is action combat game.

 

This was always advertized as action combat game.

 

Rooting dirupts fluidity of action combatness - I do not consider te game action combat with rooting. Many other players also do not consider that game is action combat with rooting - as it has been implemented now. It feels like a turn-based game, I usually get a feeling of Final Fantasy game while playing it.

 

hence devs should either remove rooting or use a wish spell to make a first of the kind game which does not look turn-based while rooting is implemented.

  fs23otm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/07
Posts: 259

3/14/13 6:56:55 AM#154

Rooting is a very good thing in NW.

It make the combat have some power to it. Tera combat is horrible when it comes to running and fighting... all the attacks feel look weak and horrible. NW attacks feel strong and potent. 

You just need to learn when to dodge and when not to, and remember that dodge breaks you out of all combat animations.

  goosie

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 69

3/14/13 12:26:17 PM#155

So many baddies and rabid GW2 fanboys citing misinformed opinions on Tera that didn't make it past level 10 to realize that there's progression in attack speed. You know, something you have to work towards, a key concept that is lost in this instant gratification generation. Rooting is fundamental to risk vs reward. Those people that say rooting is fine on melee but feels akward on range? Those are the tards that  want to continue the bad trend from traditional MMOs where you have linear warriors quadratic wizardsI mean if there's is any kind of compromise, it would be that melee gets to move around freely whereas ranged must be rooted. It just proves how stupid some people can be when they have no clue what they're talking about.

You can feel or prefer what you want, it doesn't make it right. Nobody here that is against rooted combat has given ANY critical evidence that non-rooted combat is more balanced (just blanket statements referring to GW2, which is not really action combat and also has A TON of rooted skills), whereas people that are for rooted combat have cited many different games, explaining the fundamental mechanic that is prevalent among action combat games. But yeah, keep up with the "I have an opinion, therefore I am right" mentality, that's the MMORPG forum way. 

  gr0und3d

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 115

3/14/13 12:40:03 PM#156
Watch the MMORPG interview just before beta weekend 2.  They ask about rooting for the CW and the response was that the CWs at-will's had no roots to begin with.  BUT GUESS WHAT!!!  It turned into a kite fest that was UNFUN!  So they changed it....  Rooting balances pvp.  Risk vs reward combat.  Real choices to be made.  Real character progression.  You don't like the delay, then customize which skills/items you use.  Higher levels tend to speed up combat anyways, make it past lvl 10 for once.
  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 800

3/15/13 12:42:21 AM#157

The only critical evidence givin here is that, "it has been done like this in older games so that how it should be" even though not all older games did it that way.

"But yeah, keep up with the "I have an opinion, therefore I am right" mentality, that's the MMORPG forum way."   You would know seeing as this is what you are doing just as much as anyone else in these forums.

 

What it comes down to is preference and the fact that devs use this cheap mechanic to "balance" things to make things easier on themsleves.

 

 

 

 

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  goosie

Novice Member

Joined: 7/11/04
Posts: 69

3/15/13 1:26:29 AM#158
Originally posted by Asm0deus

The only critical evidence givin here is that, "it has been done like this in older games so that how it should be" even though not all older games did it that way.

I've explained mechanically how it ties in with the concept of risk vs reward, the real physics of combat in generating kinetic energy for melee, refuted all the ignorant comments about Tera combat (yet they keep popping up because reading comprehension is hard), and showed evidence that rooted combat has been part of the industry's action combat genre's bread and butter mechanic since the heydays.

In spite of that, you have nothing to show in defense other than "it's my preference".

So name those awesome action combat games from the DOS era, otherwise as far as I'm concerned, you have nothing to back up your (misinformed) opinion and just feel like dragging the argument on because you want to get the last word in with cheap jabs.

  Monstre0auS

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 46

3/15/13 3:27:31 AM#159
Originally posted by goosie
Originally posted by Asm0deus

The only critical evidence givin here is that, "it has been done like this in older games so that how it should be" even though not all older games did it that way.

I've explained mechanically how it ties in with the concept of risk vs reward, the real physics of combat in generating kinetic energy for melee, refuted all the ignorant comments about Tera combat (yet they keep popping up because reading comprehension is hard), and showed evidence that rooted combat has been part of the industry's action combat genre's bread and butter mechanic since the heydays.

In spite of that, you have nothing to show in defense other than "it's my preference".

So name those awesome action combat games from the DOS era, otherwise as far as I'm concerned, you have nothing to back up your (misinformed) opinion and just feel like dragging the argument on because you want to get the last word in with cheap jabs.

RED: Goosie, I'm gon' take a cheap jab -- You've echoed everything I've said in this thread since almost it's induction, so here goes; 'Oh, your action combat is based on an archaic rooted mechanic, and I suppose your computer is powered by coal and steam?'

I'm in staunch opposition to people spreading misinformation, but I also believe that dissemination of this misinformation by people who are jilted or biased is no more a crime then the lack of will or desire to read the entire argument by the lazy. Let the Asm0deus's of the world continue to believe in their approach to gaming solipsism. You are welcome in my imaginary tavern for a well deserved beer.

  phobossion

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/10
Posts: 37

3/15/13 3:51:38 AM#160
I personally like the DDO system - you can move doing practically anything, but if you do so, you have an increased miss chance (quite a lot actually). This way you can do some tactical decisions...
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