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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Endgame - yes or no

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80 posts found
  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

 
OP  3/12/13 7:32:51 PM#1

Currently most popular MMOs / MMORPGs use the concept where players increase the level of their character for a relatively short  period of time, then they hit max level and get involved in so called endgame activities, such as raids, bgs, arenas, instances, sieges, RvR, WvW, etc...

Do you think that future MMOs / MMORPGs should abandon this concept? Do you think they should stick to it?

Most of all do you LIKE this game design?

 

I am curious where other players stand regarding this matter. If you dont care, then just ignore...

 

 

 

 

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  ClaudeSuamOram

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 134

3/12/13 7:39:01 PM#2
MMORPG's were...again, I say were...suppose to be about the journey, not the destination. So no to it. It can still be there, but not the focus.
  jazz.be

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/06
Posts: 780

3/12/13 7:42:02 PM#3

Endgame is nothing more than continuity and progress.

I think everyone wants that, it's a basic element of the genre isn't it?

Without the so called endgame you would get stuck when you reach the end of whatever progress there is in the game, levels, skill points or exploration etc.

In the other hand, endgame suggests you can only start it after doing "normal" content.

So the question should rather be, do you want a whole bunch of activities made available after you do other type of content first.

Sure why not? Raids or big PVP battles at lvl 1 ;-)

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1658

3/12/13 7:42:42 PM#4

Keep up its called Eldergame now endgame has too many negative connotations and is being phased out by all good PR deptartments in your area.

 

 

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Codenak

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/08
Posts: 418

3/12/13 7:49:50 PM#5
In my opinion an RPG should not have an endgame. If no more advancement or story development is possible in any way then you are just spinning your wheels and staying in place.

F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

3/12/13 8:16:17 PM#6
Subscription based games will always have endgame. And its not like you can just "get rid of it": Every game with progress has some sort of endgame - and progress is somewhat of a trademark feature of RPGs.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  aylwynn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/13
Posts: 95

3/12/13 8:19:08 PM#7

I like RvR. But I'd hate it if all MMORPGs would stick RvR as PvP-endcontent. In the past devs tried to score with innovative ideas and concepts ...

Endgame is a must have to me. Playing the same content from level 1 to max level like in GuildWars 2 is just boring. New ideas and experiences beside new zones and equipment at max level is better.

  RevoContro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1

3/12/13 8:50:25 PM#8

If this was asked a couple of years ago, I will firmly answer 'yes'. But since then I've change my mind about how to squeeze my own enjoyment out of MMO gaming which is to enjoy the game for what it is, just the way I play a single player game like Elder Scrolls & The Witcher because to me, enjoyment IS the whole point for me to play the game in the first place. It used to be: I need to go to the end-game as fast as possible because I believe that is where the game is at it's best but when I reach the end-game and start grinding for a better gear so that I could get a better gear so that I could get even a better gear & making it like an unpaid job, just seems pointless.

 

Now I like to get my enjoyment out of the game from level 1 as long as that is what the game provides. The story, the characters, the questing, the world, the journey instead of the destination. Also doing some PvP/RvR/WvW available along the way like GW2 for example. I will still dip into the end-game content once in a while but this hasn't been my focus for playing the game anymore. If I'm tired of the game, I'll leave & play different games and get back whenever I feel like it weeks or months later. So, the answer is I'm indifferent towards one or the other as long as the game is solid the whole way through. Just my 2 cents.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

3/12/13 9:01:07 PM#9
i enjoy the leveling process more than "endgame".  i think develpers are slowly addressing the end game problem in mmo's.  I know Rift has alternate advancement at the lvl cap.  GW2 has the downscaling to make the content not so trivial.  ESO will also have advancement after lvl cap.  im sure there are other games that have similar mechanics.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4603

3/12/13 9:06:11 PM#10

I see the appeal of endgame, but no. When it comes to online multiplayer games, I think 'endgame' is one of the worst design / gamer mentallities you can have. Multiplayer games are meant to have a certain amount of replayability. This is especially true for MMOs. The whole concept of 'endgame' goes counter to this. It operates under the assumption that you have beaten the game, and now need something to do.

Properly designed MMOs shouldn't have an ending. They should evolve, change, and leave the journey up to the player.

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

 
OP  3/12/13 9:06:50 PM#11
Originally posted by Quirhid
Subscription based games will always have endgame. And its not like you can just "get rid of it": Every game with progress has some sort of endgame - and progress is somewhat of a trademark feature of RPGs.

There were games which were not built around endgame and were using subscription business model. Simply the max level was hardly obtainable, so that 95% of the population never reached it. L2 would be an example of such game.

This is just one alternative to WoW model.

Another one would be dropping levels completely. Most sandboxes have subscription without adapting the concept of quick levelling to cap and joining endgame activities. In these games you usually keep progressing in terms of skills, professions , etc which is a long term process. You do all the activities the game has to offer while not being "capped". You keep improving your character.

I was wondering if this does not contribute to the longevity issues of recent games. You usually stop any kind of progression besides gear at level cap and just join endgame activities without getting anywhere in the longer run. For WoW, the gear progression at cap works well apparently, but WoW is an exceptional case in many regards.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

 
OP  3/12/13 9:08:06 PM#12
Originally posted by aesperus

I see the appeal of endgame, but no. When it comes to online multiplayer games, I think 'endgame' is one of the worst design / gamer mentallities you can have. Multiplayer games are meant to have a certain amount of replayability. This is especially true for MMOs. The whole concept of 'endgame' goes counter to this. It operates under the assumption that you have beaten the game, and now need something to do.

Properly designed MMOs shouldn't have an ending. They should evolve, change, and leave the journey up to the player.

I completely agree.

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5906

3/12/13 9:09:13 PM#13
Originally posted by coretex666

Currently most popular MMOs / MMORPGs use the concept where players increase the level of their character for a relatively short  period of time, then they hit max level and get involved in so called endgame activities, such as raids, bgs, arenas, instances, sieges, RvR, WvW, etc...

Do you think that future MMOs / MMORPGs should abandon this concept? Do you think they should stick to it?

Most of all do you LIKE this game design?

 

I am curious where other players stand regarding this matter. If you dont care, then just ignore...

 

 

 

 

Get rid of levels. problem solved...

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1799

"I shall take your position into consideration"

 
OP  3/12/13 9:10:18 PM#14
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by coretex666

Currently most popular MMOs / MMORPGs use the concept where players increase the level of their character for a relatively short  period of time, then they hit max level and get involved in so called endgame activities, such as raids, bgs, arenas, instances, sieges, RvR, WvW, etc...

Do you think that future MMOs / MMORPGs should abandon this concept? Do you think they should stick to it?

Most of all do you LIKE this game design?

 

I am curious where other players stand regarding this matter. If you dont care, then just ignore...

 

 

 

 

Get rid of levels. problem solved...

That is one alternative. Yes

Currently playing: L2 Chronicle 4

  Alber_gamer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/08/12
Posts: 451

3/12/13 9:14:32 PM#15

"Endgame" is the only reason for mmo's can exist. Without it they'd be as good as single player games that people would just trash after they have "beaten the game".

 

Furthermore, everyone needs to be in the same page for competition to be fair both in PvE and PvP, and that's only accomplished by everyone being the same level or having access to the same number of skills and perks. In other words - endgame. Without that, what happens is like in all of these silly internet browser games (Ikariam, Travian, etc, you know them) where a few people have been playing 2 years and every new player will always be an underdog dominated by the big bullies. There is no incentive in joining such a game unless you were there from the very beginning so they have to resort to creating new fresh servers every few months to "reset" everyone's chances to accomplish something.

 

No endgame, no fungame. It's that simple.

My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  centkin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 773

3/12/13 9:29:37 PM#16
I kind of liked the way Everquest One handled it.  You have Alternate Advancement where the skills you can get augment how your character plays.  It even works such that if you like play at some level and do not want to advance quite yet, you can hold back and gain AAs instead. 
  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6745

3/12/13 9:36:53 PM#17
The only game I've ever gotten to end game in is DC Universe Online. Usually I lose my sense of disbelief and start playing a game like its a spreadsheet. When that happens I get bored long before I get to the end. When a game becomes a quest for increasing the size of a number in various number pools I quit.
  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3711

RIP City of Heroes!

3/12/13 9:41:24 PM#18
Originally posted by coretex666

Currently most popular MMOs / MMORPGs use the concept where players increase the level of their character for a relatively short  period of time, then they hit max level and get involved in so called endgame activities, such as raids, bgs, arenas, instances, sieges, RvR, WvW, etc...

Do you think that future MMOs / MMORPGs should abandon this concept? Do you think they should stick to it?

Most of all do you LIKE this game design?

 

I am curious where other players stand regarding this matter. If you dont care, then just ignore...

 

 

 

 

 Rather than think of it in narrow terms of Raiding, RVR and such, how about this:  Do you want games to keep you entertained for a long time? Do you prefer a short game that you play for a small amount of time then move onto the next game?

  KaosProphet

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 384

3/12/13 9:51:40 PM#19
Originally posted by Quirhid
Subscription based games will always have endgame. And its not like you can just "get rid of it": Every game with progress has some sort of endgame - and progress is somewhat of a trademark feature of RPGs.

If endgame is defined as "what you do after level cap," I can just "get rid of it" very easily:

No level cap.  No clear demarcation point at which 'levelling' is done and 'endgame' begins. 

And why the hell not?  It's not like progression actually *stops* at the so-called endgame anyway.

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

3/12/13 10:53:54 PM#20

to me the best model so far is (was) GW1: you got max lvl (20) very fast and started to play whole content (large choice of activities).

I don't mind raids but it demand too much time (usually) and you need to do it non stop, which is not very handy for all.

If at the end we gonna have more dungeons and/or Hard Mod, it seems to be better choice as we don't need to make complicate planning.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

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