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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Boring, Linear, and Simplistic (Don't Bother)

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87 posts found
  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

3/10/13 12:22:08 PM#41

Because the new aged gamers are  Boring, Linear, and Simplistic  ? Want now, free, no work, dont want to travel, i didnt get a medal for killing 5 rats, i hit max level in 5 hrs i are king, this game is boring i quit.......................

 

i jest i jest................. but yeah most new mmorpgs are like this now. Developers and gamers alike seem to have lost their creative and exploration side and just want everything so easily available now. Its not what a mmorpg is about. Though a few decent looking ones are on the horizon thankfuly.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

3/10/13 9:13:59 PM#42
Originally posted by trash656

I cannot fathom why people here seem to like this game so much.

For a D&D game this is one of the most Boring, Linear, and unindepth/simplistic out of all the D&D games I have ever played in my life. Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights had more depth, class customization, and uniqueness, and these were single player games that came out over 10 years ago.

Even Dungeons and Dragons Online has more depth than this sorry excuse for a D&D game. Everyone chooses the same class skills, aquires the same traits, and can specialize in small things like a little bit of armor resistance or damage, but not enough to really make a huge inpact on anything. About the only good thing about this game is the Graphics, and Gameplay. This game is one of the most boring games I've ever played. I had more enjoyment in the latest Skyrim DLC and that wasn't even that great.

PS: I don't care if this is beta, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what kind of game this is.

Cheers,

-Trash

What would you recommend people to play that is better?

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/11/13 12:10:51 AM#43

The official questline is basically story-telling. Hence it is linear. All good storytelling games are linear in nature (Mafia - the city of Lost Heaven comes to mind).

 

Developers chose to make linear quests. It is very much possible to make non-linear quests in foundry. The engine does not disallow the nonlinearity in questing.

  Dogblaster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

3/11/13 6:01:51 AM#44
Originally posted by Onomas

Because the new aged gamers are  Boring, Linear, and Simplistic  ? Want now, free, no work, dont want to travel, i didnt get a medal for killing 5 rats, i hit max level in 5 hrs i are king, this game is boring i quit.......................

 

i jest i jest................. but yeah most new mmorpgs are like this now. Developers and gamers alike seem to have lost their creative and exploration side and just want everything so easily available now. Its not what a mmorpg is about. Though a few decent looking ones are on the horizon thankfuly.

This is fault of the playerbase and sorry for saying that, stu**d NA/EU mentality.

  Dogblaster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

3/11/13 6:03:23 AM#45
What would you recommend people to play that is better?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcmKPmj9yeE

  User Deleted
3/11/13 6:08:43 AM#46
Its better than 3 other games in beta / alpha at the moment. If you are holding out for those, don't bother.
  Hiron

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 49

3/11/13 2:03:09 PM#47
Originally posted by gillrmn

The official questline is basically story-telling. Hence it is linear. All good storytelling games are linear in nature (Mafia - the city of Lost Heaven comes to mind).

 

Developers chose to make linear quests. It is very much possible to make non-linear quests in foundry. The engine does not disallow the nonlinearity in questing.

Which is why the mainquest/story is one of the things I like about the game. The lore, the setting/environment and challenging battle. But the lack of side quests, limited character costumization, and generic/simple dungeons is a huge letdown for me. Maybe the foundry can save the game.

  gillrmn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/12
Posts: 251

3/12/13 3:32:33 AM#48
Originally posted by Hiron
Originally posted by gillrmn

The official questline is basically story-telling. Hence it is linear. All good storytelling games are linear in nature (Mafia - the city of Lost Heaven comes to mind).

 

Developers chose to make linear quests. It is very much possible to make non-linear quests in foundry. The engine does not disallow the nonlinearity in questing.

Which is why the mainquest/story is one of the things I like about the game. The lore, the setting/environment and challenging battle. But the lack of side quests, limited character costumization, and generic/simple dungeons is a huge letdown for me. Maybe the foundry can save the game.

Yes, foundry has a capability for non-linear quests. My quest is quite non-linear.

 

It was not there this beta weekend because I got busy with RL job, but it was there in beta weekend 1 and will be there in beta weekend 3(promise).

 

It is completely non-linear. Next time, open foundry and search for Cmapaign named "Maiden in the Moon" or the quest named "The Wild Moon(mote) Chase" or the author named @gillrmn. You should be able to find it. It is completely non-linear in nature, however it starts as linear quest to make you feel comfortable at first.

 

There are some side-quests in map 1 which you can miss. Map 3 (Lake teardrop) is open map with 7 side-quests out of which you will have to do at least 1. Then map 4 has a courtroom trial with battle of wits and many "optional" elements (either do this or do that choices).

 

I will add more nonlinear elements in the campaigns later down the line including optional endings, but for now these much should do. Already few people who tried it are saying in ratings review, "Too many puzzles" "too many options, didn't know what to do first" - something which I aimed for!

  Hiron

Novice Member

Joined: 3/11/13
Posts: 49

3/12/13 7:01:50 AM#49
Great! Puzzles! Will try at next beta3, looking forwards to it.
  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 886

3/12/13 12:46:11 PM#50
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by trash656

Yeah I found that this game was more like playing an Arcade Fighting game out of the 80's then a D&D game, let alone a RPG. There is nothing really RPG'ish about this game other then you lvl up.

 

Welcome to 2013.

Issue is on your end.

new trend is sell action,shooter games as rpg's ,  coz most action/shooter players think,rpg = trade in game(i talking about some my rl friends)

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 826

3/12/13 6:09:12 PM#51
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by trash656

Yeah I found that this game was more like playing an Arcade Fighting game out of the 80's then a D&D game, let alone a RPG. There is nothing really RPG'ish about this game other then you lvl up.

 

Welcome to 2013.

Issue is on your end.

new trend is sell action,shooter games as rpg's ,  coz most action/shooter players think,rpg = trade in game(i talking about some my rl friends)

I agree 100% and some of the younger folks are touting this like some grand new step in the right direction lol

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  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

3/12/13 6:13:02 PM#52
Originally posted by Monstre0auS

Okay, for this, first I'm going to start with the blue...

You're obviously trolling with that comment, as the game immediately tells you after you begin playing that it can be turned of with a single press of the 'z' button. It literally has a 'Z' on screen next to this text about the size of an average mans thumbnail. So I do not understand your complaint. If you don't like a fly-by-wire glowing trail of breadcrumbs, turn it off... I remember when I played PnP WoD VtM (ACRONYMS! >,< HAXOR) there was a background called Benefactor, which meant the GM could tell you hints whenever he felt you needed one in game... I like to think of a game with glowing breadcrumbs a benefactor, giving you a hint when you really need it, but something you can turn off (or silence with a coke & bourban) when you don't. And let's not forget, that one of WoW's most downloaded addons from Curse.com was actually this very thing, a quest organiser, designed to show you were to go to finish your quests in order,  so popular, that Blizz built one of their own into their game...


GW3EN? I was never able to get into DDO when it launched. I got into it just after they announced the expansion Denizens of the Underdark and played it with my then flatmate. Our thoughts were, 'Wow! We have so much choice for our classes!' which soon turned into, 'Hey, I got told if I wanted my rogue to do more damage, I should've taken this feat, gotta reroll', which became 'Hey, I paid for that pack that allows you to start your adventures at level 10 instead of level 1 because I'm sick of rerolling noobs whenever I do something wrong', which led us to, 'Man, f*** this, we're in a level 20 raid/dungeon, and everyone is almost identical and zerging these bloody giant mesphits, I'm out.'

Point is, given all the unlimited options you were in DDO, people still theorycrafted the sh!t out of it. Given the paths of least effort for maximum reward, the community chose the same damn path, each and every time.

 

Neverwinter will probably be like that... But atleast it'll be like that, differently. I think...

 

 

Your two replies here are interesting to me.

About the "golden trail" imo it sucks, the game is already pretty linear, we'll just take it to 100!, by giving you the path. But you are ok with this as an option.

Then you talk about DDO's awesome character building (I agree) but you are then told what cookie cutter you have to play with.

The deal I'm getting at is you were running DDO with PUG's based on "you have to do this or else", well those same PUG's are going to dictate to us that we will need to run with the golden trail on, because someone in the PUG will and you'll have to follow suit to keep up. Like in DDO, you are forced to do it. No golden trail, no issue, no one ever even asked for this anyway.

Cryptic is possibly turning into the Lisa Lapanelli of MMO makers, they are screwing themselves to the bottom. How much dumber do things have to be? It's like they are trying to find out how little they could possibly do and still make bank. Instead of raising their game, they lower it. There are seveal things in this game which are lighter then already questionable efforts.

That all said... it does have a nice ARPG combat model to it. I'll at least play it to some point.

 

 

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

3/12/13 6:22:09 PM#53
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by trash656

Yeah I found that this game was more like playing an Arcade Fighting game out of the 80's then a D&D game, let alone a RPG. There is nothing really RPG'ish about this game other then you lvl up.

 

Welcome to 2013.

Issue is on your end.

It's a legitimate complaint and I fail to see how the date somehow justifies your point of view.  Deal with it, some people prefer different play mechanics and they may not coincide with your own and it has absolutely nothing to do with what year it is, truly, I shit you not.

  ace5572

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 112

3/12/13 6:29:35 PM#54
Boring? Linear? Simplistic? Yup i can see all those things. For the past 10 years games have moved towards just being a cash cow. People don't make games for enjoyment sake or to make the best game possible. Nope, its just all about making a dollar and everyone be damned kind of attitude.
  Monstre0auS

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 46

3/12/13 7:02:52 PM#55
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Monstre0auS

Okay, for this, first I'm going to start with the blue...

You're obviously trolling with that comment, as the game immediately tells you after you begin playing that it can be turned of with a single press of the 'z' button. It literally has a 'Z' on screen next to this text about the size of an average mans thumbnail. So I do not understand your complaint. If you don't like a fly-by-wire glowing trail of breadcrumbs, turn it off... I remember when I played PnP WoD VtM (ACRONYMS! >,< HAXOR) there was a background called Benefactor, which meant the GM could tell you hints whenever he felt you needed one in game... I like to think of a game with glowing breadcrumbs a benefactor, giving you a hint when you really need it, but something you can turn off (or silence with a coke & bourban) when you don't. And let's not forget, that one of WoW's most downloaded addons from Curse.com was actually this very thing, a quest organiser, designed to show you were to go to finish your quests in order,  so popular, that Blizz built one of their own into their game...


GW3EN? I was never able to get into DDO when it launched. I got into it just after they announced the expansion Denizens of the Underdark and played it with my then flatmate. Our thoughts were, 'Wow! We have so much choice for our classes!' which soon turned into, 'Hey, I got told if I wanted my rogue to do more damage, I should've taken this feat, gotta reroll', which became 'Hey, I paid for that pack that allows you to start your adventures at level 10 instead of level 1 because I'm sick of rerolling noobs whenever I do something wrong', which led us to, 'Man, f*** this, we're in a level 20 raid/dungeon, and everyone is almost identical and zerging these bloody giant mesphits, I'm out.'

Point is, given all the unlimited options you were in DDO, people still theorycrafted the sh!t out of it. Given the paths of least effort for maximum reward, the community chose the same damn path, each and every time.

 

Neverwinter will probably be like that... But atleast it'll be like that, differently. I think...

 

 

Your two replies here are interesting to me.

About the "golden trail" imo it sucks, the game is already pretty linear, we'll just take it to 100!, by giving you the path. But you are ok with this as an option.

Then you talk about DDO's awesome character building (I agree) but you are then told what cookie cutter you have to play with.

The deal I'm getting at is you were running DDO with PUG's based on "you have to do this or else", well those same PUG's are going to dictate to us that we will need to run with the golden trail on, because someone in the PUG will and you'll have to follow suit to keep up. Like in DDO, you are forced to do it. No golden trail, no issue, no one ever even asked for this anyway.

Cryptic is possibly turning into the Lisa Lapanelli of MMO makers, they are screwing themselves to the bottom. How much dumber do things have to be? It's like they are trying to find out how little they could possibly do and still make bank. Instead of raising their game, they lower it. There are seveal things in this game which are lighter then already questionable efforts.

That all said... it does have a nice ARPG combat model to it. I'll at least play it to some point.

 

RED: The reason I am okay with this option is because it is just that, optional. The game isn't forcing you to hold it's hand, as we've already read or experienced, the game is linear enough without it. But the game is giving you the option of taking a hint when your stuck, and up front tells you how to turn it off. What's not to appreciate about that? I guess because I look at the mechanism as a bit larger then myself I can see it's value, because if my younger nephews (ages ranging from 10-5) were to play this game, I would want to be able to tell them, 'if your stuck, hit this button and the game will help you find what you need'.

YELLOW: No, we weren't actually running with PUGs, that was a guild run. My friend and I joined a guild and it was literally a case of there being five or six different builds throughout the entirety of the guild. My personal favourite character out of 3ed D&D was the high crit Kukri Rogue, I would make the character, get about level 10, someone from the guild told me that a certain feat actually plays out better in D&D online then PnP, and said I should reroll before it got too late. So I did, then as I was levelling, I was informed that Kukris don't drop as often as Falchions in high end loot, and that for better damage I should've been speccing that, told to reroll, so I did. Then when my friend and I had levelled to a point we could run a high end instance with our guild, we realised that by doing so, we had made ourselves amazingly redundant, as everyone simply zerged the content, and there was no need for actual D&D roleplay or even fun.

BLUE: Now your saying that those same PUGs will dictate to us our gameplay, following the path of least resistance because that's what they're doing; I guess you missed the part where my friend and I quit playing DDO due to the fact that this was so rampant? We didn't want to become a part of that establishment, so we didn't. There is freewill in gaming, you choose what you want to do, how you want to play. In regards to this issue, it's simply a matter of choosing to hit the button 'z' or not.

Edit for Green: I -really- wanted to emphasis the fact that this mechanic is OPTIONAL!

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

3/12/13 7:08:47 PM#56
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by trash656

Yeah I found that this game was more like playing an Arcade Fighting game out of the 80's then a D&D game, let alone a RPG. There is nothing really RPG'ish about this game other then you lvl up.

 

Welcome to 2013.

Issue is on your end.

new trend is sell action,shooter games as rpg's ,  coz most action/shooter players think,rpg = trade in game(i talking about some my rl friends)

I agree 100% and some of the younger folks are touting this like some grand new step in the right direction lol

Whilst I tihnk Neverwinter is actually a good game for what it is,I do agree with the two fo you on the direction of actual RPGs.Those of us who like the more tactical,thoughtful paced combat of the past have to look to Kickstarter and the indie scene because the AAA market is set on making action RPGs only with the emphasis on action and les son RPG.

It's what the generations brought up on consoles want and they are the majority now.

  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

3/12/13 7:30:59 PM#57

Haven't any of you out there noticed that starting with EQ2 and WoW, the genre has slowly devolved into a mindless dumbed down shell of what it started out as?  The money is clearly with the casual gamer, WoW has proven that and EQ2 was an attempt to please EQs more casual crowd.  Companies are simply trying to make the games easier and easier because they seem to think that those that don't want to feel like they are working for success will play their basterdized shells of MMOs that have launched for the last 8 years or so. 

As long as we keep giving companies our money that listen to accountants and looking at statistical analysis rather than listening to their development types that actually PLAY MMOs, we will keep getting dumber and dumber games.  You want to get back to something closer to the glory days before WoW, then stop padding the profit margins of these companies and make them wake the f*ck up.  I mean paying $200 before you even know if you will like a game is insane.  But WAIT!  IT gets better!  You can beta test it in all 3 beta weekends!  You get to play a Drow and have a spider mount and a panther companion and you can live out your Drizzt fantasies!  What a joke.  Nevermind that what you are actually doing is providing them with revenue for doing something that used to be free and companies used to actually value beta testers inputs and would try to FIX the bugs that we reported.  That was a ways back by the way.

All CEOs know is $$$$$.  They don't care one damn bit about what the customers really want.  The data says we are zombies and will play almost anything they feed us.  So stop complaining because as long as you are supporting these idiots with money, you are getting exactly what you are paying for... CRAP.

/soapbox

 

 

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

3/12/13 7:36:33 PM#58
More power to the people who enjoy cryptic games, but lettuce beef reality.. they aren't exactly known for depth or longevity.
  Laromuss

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 331

3/12/13 7:38:35 PM#59
Originally posted by Drakynn
Originally posted by Asm0deus
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by trash656

Yeah I found that this game was more like playing an Arcade Fighting game out of the 80's then a D&D game, let alone a RPG. There is nothing really RPG'ish about this game other then you lvl up.

 

Welcome to 2013.

Issue is on your end.

new trend is sell action,shooter games as rpg's ,  coz most action/shooter players think,rpg = trade in game(i talking about some my rl friends)

I agree 100% and some of the younger folks are touting this like some grand new step in the right direction lol

Whilst I tihnk Neverwinter is actually a good game for what it is,I do agree with the two fo you on the direction of actual RPGs.Those of us who like the more tactical,thoughtful paced combat of the past have to look to Kickstarter and the indie scene because the AAA market is set on making action RPGs only with the emphasis on action and les son RPG.

It's what the generations brought up on consoles want and they are the majority now.

I can say from my experince so far, for the most part enemy AI early on is very linear and simple but as the game progresses there are variations of enemies in the form of small, medium and big.  The big ones are usually the standout very intelligent AI enemies.  For example there are these large sized knights with shields, they play their role very well.  Playing as a guardian I have the most fun and tactical fights with these large soldiers with shields.   During the fight they will Shield bash and stun you then stomp you to death if you are not paying attention, this combined with speed they are very tricky to catch with their shields down.  They are built to knock down players and expose player weaknesses.  Even a fully geared/highly geared player as myself it would still take a long time and a lot of thinking to make sure  I don't die.  Even further in the game they are combined with summoners which makes it even more exciting and tactical.

Now where it gets even more interesting is the layering of enemies later in the game where there are certain objectives.  For example there is a mission where you need to stop a summoning of sorts.  But  trying to stop it is very hard since the layered enemies are set up to push you back (keep you as far as possible from the summoner) and make it very hard to reach the summoner at the back side and because of the mechanics of the game you can't take shortcuts like you would in a tab target game and shoot through the font line mobs.  In addtion the summoner will summon more mobs through out the fight.  The most efficient method to make it through the fight is to try to run past the frontline enemies which is possible and zerg the summoner but the summoner will surprise you with some very dangerous and up close abilites which will stun you and knock you back into the frontline enemies.  In the end it took a balance of keeping a certain distance from the smaller enemies and some ingenious knock back moves and using environmental obstacles to have a chance to hit the summoner.  This fight alone was very satisfying and encompass what designers call Map Gameplay and understand Core Gameplay.  

Of course this has been my experience and as a professional in the industry I don't get excited very often but when I see another combat designer who understands the basics of an exciting combat encounter and make it fun in an MMO, I have to give him some appluase for understanding that it is much better to have quality over quantity.

  HorrorScope

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 612

3/12/13 7:39:33 PM#60
Originally posted by Monstre0auS
 

RED: The reason I am okay with this option is because it is just that, optional. The game isn't forcing you to hold it's hand, as we've already read or experienced, the game is linear enough without it. But the game is giving you the option of taking a hint when your stuck, and up front tells you how to turn it off. What's not to appreciate about that? I guess because I look at the mechanism as a bit larger then myself I can see it's value, because if my younger nephews (ages ranging from 10-5) were to play this game, I would want to be able to tell them, 'if your stuck, hit this button and the game will help you find what you need'.

YELLOW: No, we weren't actually running with PUGs, that was a guild run. My friend and I joined a guild and it was literally a case of there being five or six different builds throughout the entirety of the guild. My personal favourite character out of 3ed D&D was the high crit Kukri Rogue, I would make the character, get about level 10, someone from the guild told me that a certain feat actually plays out better in D&D online then PnP, and said I should reroll before it got too late. So I did, then as I was levelling, I was informed that Kukris don't drop as often as Falchions in high end loot, and that for better damage I should've been speccing that, told to reroll, so I did. Then when my friend and I had levelled to a point we could run a high end instance with our guild, we realised that by doing so, we had made ourselves amazingly redundant, as everyone simply zerged the content, and there was no need for actual D&D roleplay or even fun.

BLUE: Now your saying that those same PUGs will dictate to us our gameplay, following the path of least resistance because that's what they're doing; I guess you missed the part where my friend and I quit playing DDO due to the fact that this was so rampant? We didn't want to become a part of that establishment, so we didn't. There is freewill in gaming, you choose what you want to do, how you want to play. In regards to this issue, it's simply a matter of choosing to hit the button 'z' or not.

Edit for Green: I -really- wanted to emphasis the fact that this mechanic is OPTIONAL!

 

The optional becomes non-optional when one person in the party turns it on and takes off running in a bee-line.

PUG - Guild whatever, you were being dictated what to do with your char. Optional builds became non-optional.

On part three, right. Trails of gold, builds... all having to do something you may not want because of anothers action. Just tTake the trails away and not worry about that one, boom 50% better. The game just didn't need another level of dumbing down any way.

But it's my opinion, I respect yours, I just saw a parrallel between those two and how peoples action then affect our own. Something optional, becomes something forced.

 

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