Trending Games | WildStar | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,638,928 Users Online:0
Games:678  Posts:6,073,593
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Lets talk about good RvR motivation / implications

2 Pages « 1 2 Search
39 posts found
  Dane_Wilding

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/13
Posts: 16

3/08/13 12:56:23 AM#21
Originally posted by fanglo

Here is my idea - Localized Banking!

I like this idea waaaaay too much! It would add incentives to defending keeps as well as making RvR a much more strategical game. Keeps would not be given up easily and taking a keep would be carried out only to pillage their resources or to gain a new staging area for your next assault. It also brings crafters into the mix and forces players to work together, as in protecting crafters and organizing a push/hold. 

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/08/13 2:07:15 AM#22

It's late a night, so this post may not make complete sense by the time I review it in the morning.  Anyway, here we go:

 

Typically in RvR style games, keeps are very simple; they're an outer wall protecting a larger inner structure.  Something like this:

 

Instead, perhaps we should start thinking in terms of something completely different than what's presented in current games on the market, including Dark Age of Camelot.  Keeps should incorporate miniature towns that feature unique crafting bonuses, rare recipes and materials sold by npcs, and special NPC merchants.

Something like this:

 

Camelot Unchained will not feature the large amount of villages, towns, and unique attractions we find in games that host a healthy supply of PvE content.  How do we invoke the masses to actually defend structures instead of just swapping hands?  Allow guilds to claim Keeps and literally build a town inside the walls.  Obviously, it wouldn't be on scale to the picture above, but it would promote realm pride and provide unlimited possibilities:

  • Local hubs for commerce (trade, crafting, and banking)
  • New locations for player, guild, and alliance housing
  • Provide a new, fresh perspective on persistent worlds unique to each keep
  • Unique buildings found within the structure
    • Each keep is home of a special building and associated NPC
    • Allow guilds/alliances to sponsor unique buildings/NPC to locate inside their protective walls
      • NPCs could sell unique recipes, materials, or provide unique services
      • Introduce Wonders/Monuments into the game, built only by the aid of a realm's crafters.  (Crash Course:  These structures provide displays of achievement (monuments) and realm wide bonuses (wonders).  Click on the words Wonders/Monuments to learn more.)
  • Each individual Keep instantly becomes independently valuable, as what's found within may or may not be found in another keep within your own territory.
  • Allow guilds to pay significant amounts of currency, crafting materials, or whatever to allow customization to the overall design of the keep's layout; including levels, wall orientation, and tons more.
 
Although this post probably needs refinement (as I wrote it when I was extremely tired/sleepy), it still gets the point across.  Thoughts/suggestions?

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

3/08/13 2:26:40 AM#23
Start with no reward on capture, no reward on defense.. Only kills. Oh and perma ban "due lers" or be creative flag them to lose RP when killed. Give bonuses for holding keeps that apply to the whole realm and make losing relics really suck. Any RP for capture and you will have keep trading
  Stiler

Elite Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

3/08/13 2:44:50 AM#24
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

It's late a night, so this post may not make complete sense by the time I review it in the morning.  Anyway, here we go:

 

Typically in RvR style games, keeps are very simple; they're an outer wall protecting a larger inner structure.  Something like this:

 

Instead, perhaps we should start thinking in terms of something completely different than what's presented in current games on the market, including Dark Age of Camelot.  Keeps should incorporate miniature towns that feature unique crafting bonuses, rare recipes and materials sold by npcs, and special NPC merchants.

Something like this:

 

Camelot Unchained will not feature the large amount of villages, towns, and unique attractions we find in games that host a healthy supply of PvE content.  How do we invoke the masses to actually defend structures instead of just swapping hands?  Allow guilds to claim Keeps and literally build a town inside the walls.  Obviously, it wouldn't be on scale to the picture above, but it would promote realm pride and provide unlimited possibilities:

  • Local hubs for commerce (trade, crafting, and banking)
  • New locations for player, guild, and alliance housing
  • Provide a new, fresh perspective on persistent worlds unique to each keep
  • Unique buildings found within the structure
    • Each keep is home of a special building and associated NPC
    • Allow guilds/alliances to sponsor unique buildings/NPC to locate inside their protective walls
      • NPCs could sell unique recipes, materials, or provide unique services
      • Introduce Wonders/Monuments into the game, built only by the aid of a realm's crafters.  (Crash Course:  These structures provide displays of achievement (monuments) and realm wide bonuses (wonders).  Click on the words Wonders/Monuments to learn more.)
  • Each individual Keep instantly becomes independently valuable, as what's found within may or may not be found in another keep within your own territory.
  • Allow guilds to pay significant amounts of currency, crafting materials, or whatever to allow customization to the overall design of the keep's layout; including levels, wall orientation, and tons more.
 
Although this post probably needs refinement (as I wrote it when I was extremely tired/sleepy), it still gets the point across.  Thoughts/suggestions?

 

This x10, I mentioned this before and imo having players invest PERSONALLY in "keeps" by literally having them function as their housing/crafting area and things makes the purpose of defending them so much more worthwhile.

Because instead of defending a "no name random keep your realm controls" you are defending your home, your guilds home, people you know who live there, etc.

The entire concept of a keep shoudl be this imo.

A guild plops down a keep, then walls, and within these walls people craft their houses, a bank for gold storage, crafters have their stations/resource banks there,  stables, and many other things which the guild and individual players can invest in and upgrade/make better.

Over time the guild can invest more in improving it's defense, from starting out iwth cheaper wooden walls, to stone, etc. Having defenses like towers, upgrading them tot he point you can have "kill holes" in them for archers/mages to fire from, then having things like boiling oil  traps, etc.

So the longer/more time an dmoney a guild invest in their home the bigger and better it gets, and the harder it is to take over. HOWEVEr at the same time, the better the reward from it. As other guilds should be able not only to attack it, but capture it and reap the rewards from it, taking over the structures, being able to repair them (if not destroyed/razed) and other elements.

The more plyaers invest in the keeps/towns within them, the more they will want to fight to defend them and care about them, and all the more worthwhile the RVR will be to fight for them. Then when you do lose them, the impact of that will mean more then any other kind of loss or reward you get.

Imagine a smaller guild sieging a bigger keep through smart tactics and strategy and taking it over, that'd mean a lot more to them then if it's just a random keep controlled by npc's that give some slight bonus to your character.

  Shermiar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/26/07
Posts: 5

3/08/13 2:47:33 AM#25

Guys, I think that you are rly lookin on this "problem" with keep taking and trading, rewards for capturing, defending..etc., from wrong perspective.

You dont need any rewards for it!!!

Sure you will get some fixed XP reward for taking small tower, keep or large stronghold, etc., but like MJ stated many times, it will be splited in RVR XPs for fighters, Craft XPs for crafters building siege weaponry, and so.....so it will not be classical keep grinding like it was in WAR, rly no way!

And sure, that there will be special rewards for attackers and defenders, BUT -

NOT LIKE CLASSIC RVR BONUS! Special rewards should be very simple - keeps should have upgrades, crafted by players (whitch will reward builders with Build XPs) - workbenches, building wiht bonuses, armories, player houses, etc. - all this keep upgrades will be motivation for defenders to defend it and for attackers to claim it, its rly simple.

 

Just stop with artificial bonuses and rewards, make it rly simple and with sence of realism in it!

 

EDIT: Ohh, guys before me, just pointed same idea :D

  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

3/08/13 3:10:42 AM#26

There is alot being said, and most of it has merit in a form or another.  The big thing I think that is usually missed when discussing PvP on any level is psychology.  This has been an area that some games have done better than others.  Take the worst example of a PvP centered game, WoW.  It would probably amaze many of you to realize just how many people would actively defend Thrall back in vanilla when he was attacked.  There was absolutely nothing to gain from it.  You earned literally nothing for killing him, and nothing for defending him.  But it happened on LARGE scales all the time.  This is because the players became invested in the lore of that character, and he would issue a call to arms when attacked.  Anyone in the area would hear that cry to battle, and feel inclined to help, if for no other reason than pride.

The more you turn PvP into a reward scheme, the less actual invesment your players have toward it.  They seek only the spoils and leave it when they've been earned.  Doing nothing more than having the NPC's of your keep begin to shout meaningful dialogue or shame the players for their failure can do a lot to encourage PvP in ways that go beyond simple gear and levels.  But if you're looking to find what ways to, through systems, get players involved...

Loss is the key.  There must be something great, something DEEP, lost.  Not just quests, or arbitrary buffs.  The entire flow of your play must be dramatically altered.  Roads that would take you to dungeons and resources must be cut off by enemy forces.  Think of how losing even a single tower affects the mode of play in a game like League of Legends.  You can't even approach the battle the same way, its loss has affected all of your choices, and the choices of your team.  Taking the WoW example earlier, if the defeat of thrall drastically changed your experience, more would seek to protect it or reclaim it when lost.  Imagine how heated the battles would have been if, upon defeat, Alliance NPCs appeared in the heart of Orgrimmar and held Thrall chained to his throne.  Every player suddenly found 25% of his gold earned taken away and shop costs doubled.  People would have rallied HARD.  Even if they already lost, players would begin moving together to take back the heart of their empire.  So long as this loss did not prevent them from gaining all the skills and gear the could have otherwise, it wouldn't break the flow of play in technical terms such that you'd never wanna play the underdog side.  Quite the opposite, you'd see players moving to underdog sides just to prove a point.

Its something to think on.  You can be harsh in penalizing loss without undermining the losers strength.  You can make small changes that affect the losers psychology, or audio clues that create a sense of urgency and need.  The best motivation to stand up for your side is the shame of failure, more than the things you lose.  Emphasize what ways you can really bring that shame home, without creating a crippling of the player, and it will do wonders.

  Justsomenoob

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 869

3/08/13 12:18:56 PM#27

I agree with the concept.

 

I think it's better to be rewarded for HAVING a structure than to be rewarded for taking it.

 

If every structure you had made you do 2% more damage (or whatever, some sort of boon for having it), it'd be important not to just to try to get structures, but to keep the ones you have too.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

3/08/13 12:43:05 PM#28
Lol

Gish, did you really call wow a "pvp centered game"?
  Lawtoween

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/13
Posts: 104

3/08/13 3:35:22 PM#29
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Lol

Gish, did you really call wow a "pvp centered game"?

LOL, no kidding, but he did say "failure of" with that.  I always felt WoW could have been soooo much more, especially given its IP (building a kingdom to fight an enemy kingdom). 

I'm hoping CU will be what WoW should have been.  Players in the roles of the armies you controlled in Warcraft.  Players build the keeps, towns, and paths between, a lot like a persistant RTS game.  I like a lot of the ideas on here.  I pray that the ideas expressed by Plastic-Metal, Stiler, and Gish can all be incorporated. 

Make the safe area tiny with only the basic things player society needs to work.  Let the players build the good stuff in the towns they create.  Buildings that give bonuses to crafting, and the items crafted in them, with the ablity of being upgraded as long as the player's realm controls the town.  Make it so that everything can be destroyed, but only the keep needs to be captured by the enemy to change possession of the whole town.  The town can be added to only by the realm in control.  The guild that controls the keep gets a tax from the players who own buildings in the town.  The tax is variable based on realm, so that the guild can reward players of its own realm with lower taxes, while making life harder on players of the other realms who built here when their realm controlled the keep.  But that is the price they pay for the attacking realm to not destroy the buildings outright.

Why would players from a far away realm build in an area that is likely to be controlled by another realm most of the time and possibly be destroyed?  Because it is the ONLY area with a particular material needed for high end items!  And if your realm is ever to get access to those materials, you will have to take this place at some point. 

  Stromm

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 250

3/08/13 5:28:57 PM#30

How Realm, Class and Server pride will be fueled by asymmetrical class design.

Here we have ingame footage of combat between TDD and Viking Knights leading into Viking versus Briton Knights. Note how the asymmetry has created so much pride for the Briton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjEcj8KpuJw

  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

3/09/13 1:49:29 AM#31
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Lol

Gish, did you really call wow a "pvp centered game"?

 

 

  I actually said the worst example of a PvP centered game...though, in looking back, I can see how the phrasing was misunderstood.  The point was the WoW is nearly the antithesis of a PvP game, it had literally no PvP features at launch other than a few PvP servers and the ability to attack the opposing factions NPCs.  However, in an environment devoid of "PvP features" it probably had more active and enjoyable PvP moments than most of the games being touted as PvP games today.  Now that wasn't because the game had great PvP, lol.  All of the great PvP memories players had from that time were forged on their own, because the game both allowed it, but also retained the "safety" so that players that were new to the experience, or nervous about joining it, weren't forced to or held back for it.

  The point is, the best PvP moments I've ever had in a game had literally NOTHING to do with PvP mechanics or systems beyond the ability to stab someone and novel moments that enabled it to occur.  I had more fun hunting a Paladin through the jungle because he killed my friends than I did playing the "PvP games" in most of the releases today.  The best part of that story was that one of my friends had actually given me gold to help with a few quests (I didn't ask, but certainly didn't turn it down since vanilla mounts ate a wallet).  In the process of helping him I killed about 6 people, for the lulz, as it were.  I had just as much fun trying to escape the lot of them once they all teamed up to take me down. 

The joy of that had nothing to do with a reward system.  I did not earn gear or levels for it, if anything doing it kept me from doing the things that WOULD have rewarded me.  We place too much concern on rewarding people for PvP.  Its only meaningful when the PvP is the reward.  It only happens when there is loss, though the loss needs to be something you can deal with.  For WoW, the loss was constantly having to do ghost runs and getting shorted on your questing time.  Not a big deal, but an annoyance that spawned plenty of fun times.  Without ANY loss, and only rewards, PvP is just another loot machine and is ignored once the right toy pops out. 

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1604

3/09/13 1:58:37 AM#32
So I'm wondering if they even get to call it RvR as the term is trade marked by EA/Mythic.

You stay sassy!

  Zakatak

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/13
Posts: 17

3/10/13 1:43:30 AM#33

Mythic/EA trademarked RvR?  Lol.  I would still call it rvr in game even if it was trademarked because that is just silly.

 

RvRvR is really what it is but.. yeah.

Bige - Bors.
Bigge, Zmallz, Reiggn, Faty)

(Everquest(99-02), Lineage(01-02), DAoC(02-09), WoW(07), WAR(10-11), Rift(11)
Nothing Current.

  zekuel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/13
Posts: 39

3/10/13 6:12:10 AM#34
guild housing can only be put up in keeps. along with rewards for keeps like relics in daoc. your guild houses and merchants to sell items can only go up in keeps; your guild housing lot.  there could be a limited number of housing lots. eventually you'll even need to put them up in other realm keeps. it would be nice to have guild xp and rewards but limit guild numbers. if you leave a guild you take your guild xp with you to your new guild. anyways i thought it would be cool if you could use your guild xp to build and level up your keep captain/commander and also if you could choose 1-5 players in your guild depending on level of guild to act as npc to defend your keep while offline. you could set up a predefined-AI for your npc and commander. keeps should not be easy to take on low server population times everyone has to sleep but if i where in my keep id hear the bombs flying.
  fanglo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 279

3/10/13 1:10:36 PM#35
Originally posted by zekuel
 if you could choose 1-5 players in your guild depending on level of guild to act as npc to defend your keep while offline. you could set up a predefined-AI for your npc and commander. 

I absolutely love those ideas.

I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  KappenWiz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/06/07
Posts: 163

3/12/13 12:45:43 AM#36
Originally posted by zekuel
guild housing can only be put up in keeps. along with rewards for keeps like relics in daoc. your guild houses and merchants to sell items can only go up in keeps; your guild housing lot.  there could be a limited number of housing lots. eventually you'll even need to put them up in other realm keeps. it would be nice to have guild xp and rewards but limit guild numbers. if you leave a guild you take your guild xp with you to your new guild. anyways i thought it would be cool if you could use your guild xp to build and level up your keep captain/commander and also if you could choose 1-5 players in your guild depending on level of guild to act as npc to defend your keep while offline. you could set up a predefined-AI for your npc and commander. keeps should not be easy to take on low server population times everyone has to sleep but if i where in my keep id hear the bombs flying.

To kind of piggyback on this.

Maybe Keeps would reflect the guilds that claim them. Guild houses would be in the safe area, but when they take a keep, in any realm, the services/lots/merchants inside start at a level based on the guild. So, if a small guild claims a keep, the keep would start out smaller/weaker than if a powerful guild took it, and take longer to build up, harder for crafters to get the walls up, etc. A bigger guild might start out with more resources or a bigger variety of possibilities for development.

Now, by owning a keep, the merchants and whatever capabilities the guild house contains, can be moved to the keep. They would actually have to travel to get there, and maybe bigger stronger guilds would have bigger, stronger, faster travelling merchant caravans. A guild could decide to move whatever resources or merchant types it wanted, sending them as one group or smaller groups at a time of their choosing. Maybe moving a siege merchant to their frontier keep grants a 50% bonus to siege building, or they could move a crafting merchant to a keep near a certain resource, which would then allow their crafters new bonuses only available at that location.

The caravan would start at an entrance to the safe housing zone, with a few different choices available. If they're escorted by a group, they could follow the live players. If they are put on "Auto Travel" they'd follow the dirt paths or built-up roads to the keeps, maybe with a few different routes to each keep for variety. Obviously, they'd move faster on developed roads, which would give realms a reason to develop them. While they're travelling to the keep, guild resources would be vulnerable.

So if they want to risk it for bonuses, they can move stuff to PvP areas. However, while there, if the keep is taken, the merchants are lost for a period of time,maybe a couple days, maybe a week. The guild would lose the privilege of having them until they respawn in the safe housing area.

Maybe you could even do a meta-rating for the guild, and have the computer determine what kind of bonus a claimed keep might generate. If you have a big guild with a lot of different members and classes and RP's earned from various methods, you'd get a well-rounded keep with spaces for developing a lot of different things. A small guild who earned the majority of it's RPs from it's one healer, might spawn more healer guards than armsman or assassins. If a guild has several notable Shield Crafters in it, maybe anyone who crafts shields in that keep skills up a little better or the walls and/or doors have extra reinforcements .

The keep could reflect the guild in a number of ways, first by the relative beginning size, then by what merchants/amenities might be moved there, and maybe special random NPC's would spawn there based on the meta-rating of the guild and other variables in the game at the time.

This is the kind of thing that would have to be tested vigorously, for sure, as you can definitely see areas of exploit, realm in-fighting, and the possibility of the rich getting richer, but this type of stuff would add a lot of variety and strategy, and maybe realm conversation for planning and plotting.

  sweetdigs

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/03
Posts: 199

3/12/13 1:13:21 PM#37

I was never a huge fan of the relic system, or any system that provides a realm wide xp/atk/defense/magic bonus for taking a keep.  Doesn't make any sense and only rewards the stronger side, allowing for potential imbalances.

I'd much prefer that keeps have other value that makes them worth taking and defending.  Something that negates any incentive to flip keeps over and over.  There should be ZERO incentive for realms to ever work with each other or arrange keep swapping, to be consistent with Mark's principle #10 - or realm pride.

So, here are my thoughts on what keeps could offer:

1.  Control of a certain region of the map.

2.  Within the region of the map you control, you have exclusive access to the resources and city plots in that realm.

3.  Only the realm that controls the area can generate resources from the buildings built on the city plots and resource "nodes" (e.g. farms, forest groves, mines, etc) in that area.  This would include certain "rare" resource nodes, one or two of which might exist in the whole world, making each "region" have a strategic value to the war effort.  Which resources does your realm prioritize?  Aim for those keeps and hold onto them.

4.  When you lose a keep, the buildings you have built on the city plots are either degraded or destroyed.  Not sure what the best mechanism would be to minimize the incentive to keep swap while also giving you incentive to build up those buildings.  I probably prefer the "destroyed" idea simply because it will drain resources and make it more valuable to hang onto keeps you've taken.  It also will make it more likely that the cities in your most protected regions will be the most built up (which makes sense) and that the cities on the front-line are less likely to be built up and making logistics more realistic in the sense that you probably won't be able to build the best items on the warfront and make them immediately available to the troops. 

5.  Alternatively, you could have certain buildings that only degrade and others that are destroyed (e.g., a portal that a realm can build in a city [not in a keep] that allows players to spend a certain amount of resources or gold to teleport from one portal to another]).   The portal would definitely be destroyed because it is a magic construct requiring the keep's energy to remain active.  You could use a similar line of logic for other unique/special buildings as opposed to buildings like a crafter's hall.

6.  You also get exclusive access to certain dungeons within your area of control, which can be hunted for resources and rare components for crafters to use in building advanced armor and weapons.  You also can find rare components for scribes who are the ones who craft the scrolls for casters to memorize new spells.  So certain rare spells will require access to components that are in dungeons that require you to control some of the most contested keeps.  You want to hang onto those dungeons not only for your own benefit, but also to keep the other side from getting access to those components.

 

  Mehuge

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/03
Posts: 23

3/13/13 6:17:38 AM#38

Give rewards for owning keeps, not for taking them.  

Have an alert system in place so that keep owners (owning realm perhaps, or owning guild) are informed when a keep is under attack or if there is enemy activity near by.

  Tierless

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2085

joie de vivre

3/13/13 2:07:28 PM#39

[quote]Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
[b]It's late a night, so this post may not make complete sense by the time I review it in the morning.  Anyway, here we go:

 

Typically in RvR style games, keeps are very simple; they're an outer wall protecting a larger inner structure.  Something like this:

 

Instead, perhaps we should start thinking in terms of something completely different than what's presented in current games on the market, including Dark Age of Camelot.  Keeps should incorporate miniature towns that feature unique crafting bonuses, rare recipes and materials sold by npcs, and special NPC merchants.

Something like this:

 

Camelot Unchained will not feature the large amount of villages, towns, and unique attractions we find in games that host a healthy supply of PvE content.  How do we invoke the masses to actually defend structures instead of just swapping hands?  Allow guilds to claim Keeps and literally build a town inside the walls.  Obviously, it wouldn't be on scale to the picture above, but it would promote realm pride and provide unlimited possibilities:[list]
[*] Local hubs for commerce (trade, crafting, and banking) [*] New locations for player, guild, and alliance housing [*] Provide a new, fresh perspective on persistent worlds unique to each keep [*] Unique buildings found within the structure [list]
[*] Each keep is home of a special building and associated NPC [*] Allow guilds/alliances to sponsor unique buildings/NPC to locate inside their protective walls [list]
NPCs could sell unique recipes, materials, or provide unique services
Introduce Wonders/Monuments into the game, built only by the aid of a realm's crafters.  (Crash Course:  These structures provide displays of achievement (monuments) and realm wide bonuses (wonders).  Click on the words Wonders/Monuments to learn more.)
[/list]
[/list]
Each individual Keep instantly becomes independently valuable, as what's found within may or may not be found in another keep within your own territory.
Allow guilds to pay significant amounts of currency, crafting materials, or whatever to allow customization to the overall design of the keep's layout; including levels, wall orientation, and tons more.
[/list]   Although this post probably needs refinement (as I wrote it when I was extremely tired/sleepy), it still gets the point across.  Thoughts/suggestions?[/b][/quote]


Love it Sir, keep up the good ideas!

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

2 Pages « 1 2 Search