I could see this. Many people I know don't want W8. It's not because they don't want to adapt. It's just there is no benefit for buying the new OS at all right now.

Some games take a hit in performance, Others play at the same FPS or 1 or 2 FPS higher (from what I've read). Now if there were signifigant reasons to buy a $100+ dollar piece of software. I'd do it. That's why I bought W7, coming from vista. But why switch to an OS that doesn't have any real benefit besides flashy interfaces that somewhat alienate it's own audience?

As a PC gamer right now. It's better to stick to 7 and save that extra money on games or hardware upgrades.

Originally posted by Arclan

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share.

/sarcasm off

At least in phones and tablets, Samsung taking market share from Apple has been the big story of the last couple of years, not the other way around.  Apple has been reduced to a niche player in phones, just like they have been in desktops and laptops for decades and for about the same reasons.  I fully expect to see the same happen in tablets over the course of this year, as Apple is besieged from below by ever better Android tablets and from above by Windows 8 tablets that finally get worthwhile hardware starting in about three months.  Now, it's a lucrative high-priced, high profit margin niche, so if you're going to be a niche player in a market, Apple has the niche they'd want.  But the days of "getting a tablet" being nearly synonymous with "getting an iPad" are over.

Originally posted by Vyeth

Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..

 

While a number of other people have made the same argument, it's nonsense.  It's like arguing that people are buying microwaves instead of dishwashers, as if all appliances were interchangeable rather than different appliances for different purposes.

Very few people who would have had desktops or laptops in the past are buying a tablet or cell phone and getting rid of the desktop or laptop entirely.  Rather, a tablet or cell phone is a separate purchase that you get in addition to a desktop and/or laptop.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Vyeth

Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..

 

While a number of other people have made the same argument, it's nonsense.  It's like arguing that people are buying microwaves instead of dishwashers, as if all appliances were interchangeable rather than different appliances for different purposes.

Very few people who would have had desktops or laptops in the past are buying a tablet or cell phone and getting rid of the desktop or laptop entirely.  Rather, a tablet or cell phone is a separate purchase that you get in addition to a desktop and/or laptop.

It is nonsense because the global sales of computers increased from 2010 to 2011 which was well after tablets and smartphones were introduced,

Originally posted by laokoko
ya I purposebly bought a pc with windows 7 because many things isn't compatible with windows 8.  which don't make sense.  why isn't thing run on windows 7 run on windows 8

Been running Windows 8 for months and NEVER had anything fail to run. I use my PC all day long, every day. Would really like to know what people are talking about when they say this.

In fact, I saw a noticeable performance increase in most of my games of roughly 20% (just a guess). 

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Arclan

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share.

/sarcasm off

At least in phones and tablets, Samsung taking market share from Apple has been the big story of the last couple of years, not the other way around.  Apple has been reduced to a niche player in phones, just like they have been in desktops and laptops for decades and for about the same reasons.  I fully expect to see the same happen in tablets over the course of this year, as Apple is besieged from below by ever better Android tablets and from above by Windows 8 tablets that finally get worthwhile hardware starting in about three months.  Now, it's a lucrative high-priced, high profit margin niche, so if you're going to be a niche player in a market, Apple has the niche they'd want.  But the days of "getting a tablet" being nearly synonymous with "getting an iPad" are over.

Many companies in the cell phone market are barely breaking even and some are losing money.  Apple has 8.7% of the market share yet they take home a large share of the profit.  I wouldn't count them out so soon.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/03/with-8-7-market-share-apple-has-75-of-cell-phone-profits/

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Quizzical

I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.

This right here.  I have Win8, but it's not that big of a difference over Win7 apart from the attempt to market their start screen to touch-screeners.  I think Samsung and the rest are up shit creek for a different reason.

That's more true for home users, but for me, and what I do at work having Win8 would be a huge improvement over Win7.  My Win8 desktop at home has the same apps and developer programs my Win7 desktop at work does, but the entire experience is more efficient for me.

The Start Menu is awesome in Win8 as I can customize the apps I use often and arrange them how I need them.  The file explorer with the ribbon is a huge improvement if you do a lot of file work.  The vpn, network, and taks manager tools are pretty slick too.  In all the entire system is just better, but it's not so much better that many people would find a reason to upgrade.  However, it's not a reason that one wouldn't want it on a new system.

One problem is that it's cool to be overly critical of anything Microsoft does.  It's very hipster to bash and hate them.  Look at all the stupid gamer blogs that talked a bunch of stupid trash about lock-outs and Win 8 being the end of open gaming.  It was all about looking cool and authorative and to generate "me too" clicks and not about the platform strengths and weaknesses.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Vyeth

Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..

 

While a number of other people have made the same argument, it's nonsense.  It's like arguing that people are buying microwaves instead of dishwashers, as if all appliances were interchangeable rather than different appliances for different purposes.

Very few people who would have had desktops or laptops in the past are buying a tablet or cell phone and getting rid of the desktop or laptop entirely.  Rather, a tablet or cell phone is a separate purchase that you get in addition to a desktop and/or laptop.

^This +1 for certain...

I now have a PC that I won't get rid of due to gaming. I have a MacBook Pro for everyday computing. Won't get rid of it due to versatility, mobility, full keyboard, etc.  I have an iPad that combined with a slingbox pro, I won't get rid of because I watch more TV on it than on my TV. I have an iPhone and of course you need a phone, so that stays. And we can't forget the Playstaion 3 either... Low power consumption, low heat production gaming compared to my PC, and it plays Blue-ray. Don't forget the Apple TV for doing all of the above on the TV easily. 

I believe that of all the above I listed, the PC will be the first to die. Exclusive titles and superior hardware are the only thing keeping it in my house. But superior hardware that you'll get in a PC just won't be needed in the near future as hardware tech further develops. 

I've been a huge proponent of building your own PC. But hardware is quite advanced now. The PC I built a few years ago now with an i7 and ati 5870 is still really strong today. And if I wanted to upgrade it now, I couldn't.... Pcie 3.0 is out now, new socket architecture, etc.  I can't even put forth the ability to upgrade argument for the PC anymore. It just isn't true anymore. 

On top of all that the windows marketplace will NOT save PC gaming as I for one will NEVER use it. And with so many huge successes on other (typically mobile) platforms now, developers are eager to release on something other than or in addition to PC

Win8 definitely has looked like a failure.

Creating a mobile OS?  Great idea.  Mobile is going to be huge!

Forcing that mobile-designed OS to be your PC OS?  Terrible idea.

I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

Sent from my iPad.

Originally posted by Deznts

On top of all that the windows marketplace will NOT save PC gaming as I for one will NEVER use it. And with so many huge successes on other (typically mobile) platforms now, developers are eager to release on something other than or in addition to PC

False, while major retailers do indeed stop stocking older components fairly early ( once Haswell hit I doubt you'll find Sandybridge cpus easily in major retailer stores) there are still many, many places where you can acquire older components either slightly used or even factory sealed. I know this because before upgrading to an Ivy bridge my brother tempted me to look up and see what I could find for an upgrade to the current config with the cpu unchanged and I found quite a few bits to be honest, some not so great, some for workstations but I did still run across gaming components factory sealed and this was for a Intel Core Duo Quad Core processor.

ex:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASROCK-P4I65G-Intel-Socket-478-Pentium-4-Motherboard-Micro-ATX-With-AGP-Slot-/140859164833?pt=UK_Computing_LaptopMotherboards_CPUs_CA&hash=item20cbdc48a1

Originally posted by Deznts

I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

Sent from my iPad.

How so?  How is Steam going to kill the Windows gaming market?

Who and how would anyone target the office PC?  It would first have to start with someone making a competitive office suite.  No one in the world is doing that now.  The closest thing you have is Apache Open Office, and frankly they are so far behind the curve it's not funny.  Please don't even mention Google Apps because then I know you're not serious about the discussion.

People love to hipster trash on Microsoft, but unfortunately none of them put their money where their mouth is.  Will someone please come up with an alternative OS that is open and works with all the features of Win 8.  Will someone please come up with a competitive office suite.  The only alternative to .NET is Java and that is a totally non-secure joke.

Competition provides Microsoft, or any company, incentive to do better.  Where is the competition?

Originally posted by Deznts

I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

Sent from my iPad.

Just don't set anything apple on your cushiony couch...doing so may break it lol.  Samsung makes more durable items.  One of the ways Apple makes money is from making things that break so easy, you're guaranteed to have to by another within a year or two.  I've dropped my S3 on the sidewalk, all it did was chip the corner that it hit.  My friend had a iPhone 5, he dropped it out of his holster, off the couch and onto his carpet...the screen broke...Last time I check concrete from over 6' hits alot harder than a foot to a cushioned couch, another 2 feet to a carpeted floor hehe.

Anyways, If there's anything to blame for the PC sales, it couldn't possibly be the economy could it?  Without going into it too deep, people just don't have the money to go spend $600+ on a windows 8 computer like they used to.  I used to blow $1000 every two years or so on a new computer, and I haven't bought a computer in 3 years now. Well one that was for me anyways.

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by Arclan

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share.

/sarcasm off

At least in phones and tablets, Samsung taking market share from Apple has been the big story of the last couple of years, not the other way around.  Apple has been reduced to a niche player in phones, just like they have been in desktops and laptops for decades and for about the same reasons.  I fully expect to see the same happen in tablets over the course of this year, as Apple is besieged from below by ever better Android tablets and from above by Windows 8 tablets that finally get worthwhile hardware starting in about three months.  Now, it's a lucrative high-priced, high profit margin niche, so if you're going to be a niche player in a market, Apple has the niche they'd want.  But the days of "getting a tablet" being nearly synonymous with "getting an iPad" are over.

Many companies in the cell phone market are barely breaking even and some are losing money.  Apple has 8.7% of the market share yet they take home a large share of the profit.  I wouldn't count them out so soon.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/02/03/with-8-7-market-share-apple-has-75-of-cell-phone-profits/

That link has been more than a year old, and much has changed since then.  It's like linking a year-old article proclaiming Kentucky the favorite to win the NCAA basketball tournament and thinking that it still applies this year.

Yes, Apple is still making money on iPhones and iPads and probably will for quite some time to come.  They probably make a lot of money selling laptops, too, even with such a small market share.  But that's far from being the dominant player in the market.

Originally posted by Deznts

I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

Sent from my iPad.

Because people using the Windows version of Steam is going to kill Windows?  Right.

In order to kill the Windows gaming market, you'd have to get developers to use other development tools rather than those provided by Microsoft.  In particular, you'd need to get people to use OpenGL rather than Direct3D--and you'd need to make OpenGL ubiquitous to the degree that DirectX is basically dead.  If half of the games that you want are Windows-only while the other half will run just as well on Linux as Windows, then you still need Windows.

A shift toward OpenGL being more widely used is likely, but I'd bet against DirectX dying out entirely.  OpenGL is roughly even with Direct3D today, after trailing badly behind for several years.  OpenGL ES is already ubiquitous in tablets and phones, and moving from OpenGL ES to the full OpenGL is fairly trivial once the hardware to support it is ready.  But major new graphics API capabilities are likely to come to DirectX first and OpenGL later, as squabbling among graphics vendors can stall progress on OpenGL, while Microsoft has the ability to say, this is the standard and you can support it or not.

Originally posted by Gravarg

Originally posted by Deznts

I also believe that Steam could straight kill the windows gaming market at will and is gearing up to do so. If someone also gears up to target the office PC... We could kiss microsoft a highly anticipated long desired goodbye!

Sent from my iPad.

Just don't set anything apple on your cushiony couch...doing so may break it lol.  Samsung makes more durable items.  One of the ways Apple makes money is from making things that break so easy, you're guaranteed to have to by another within a year or two.  I've dropped my S3 on the sidewalk, all it did was chip the corner that it hit.  My friend had a iPhone 5, he dropped it out of his holster, off the couch and onto his carpet...the screen broke...Last time I check concrete from over 6' hits alot harder than a foot to a cushioned couch, another 2 feet to a carpeted floor hehe.

 

Anyways, If there's anything to blame for the PC sales, it couldn't possibly be the economy could it?  Without going into it too deep, people just don't have the money to go spend $600+ on a windows 8 computer like they used to.  I used to blow $1000 every two years or so on a new computer, and I haven't bought a computer in 3 years now. Well one that was for me anyways.

Eh, Apple makes pretty high quality products actually, regardless of your personal anecdotes.  They make their money because they have very high margins.  Some of it's because they aren't licensing out someone else's OS, but most of it is because they just choose to charge a premium (and they know people will pay for it).  Most other OEM's all try and compete soley on price, which cuts out of their margins.

Originally posted by Nilenya

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Nilenya

Tbh I doubt it.

Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.

I think you misunderstand.

I doubt it, was my answer in reference to the OP's question, not Samsungs numbers. People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with. They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer. - but a lot of people who play mmo's might also be people who keep updating pc components and keeping the OS they prefer for years, regardless of whatever samsung, or microsoft have on their latest market push.

Also. - PC sales might be declining but how do they factor in all the people who dont buy ready made pc's?

Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc, instead of an overpriced pc at samsung, where you wouldnt necessarily have it be a gaming specialised pc anyway.

I never in my life bought a pc, yet I have played pc games for nearly 15 years. - I dont factor in at all in stats on pc purchases, yet I get a new pc every 3 years. I know Im not in a small minority on this.

Your view is entirely from the perspective of a computer savvy PC user.

• "People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with."
• "They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer."
• "Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc"

This is definitely not the average MMO gamer that you describe there.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Nilenya

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Nilenya

Tbh I doubt it.

Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.

I think you misunderstand.

I doubt it, was my answer in reference to the OP's question, not Samsungs numbers. People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with. They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer. - but a lot of people who play mmo's might also be people who keep updating pc components and keeping the OS they prefer for years, regardless of whatever samsung, or microsoft have on their latest market push.

Also. - PC sales might be declining but how do they factor in all the people who dont buy ready made pc's?

Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc, instead of an overpriced pc at samsung, where you wouldnt necessarily have it be a gaming specialised pc anyway.

I never in my life bought a pc, yet I have played pc games for nearly 15 years. - I dont factor in at all in stats on pc purchases, yet I get a new pc every 3 years. I know Im not in a small minority on this.

Your view is entirely from the perspective of a computer savvy PC user.

• "People who plays mmo's dont base their pc purchase on the OS it comes with."
• "They are allways able to downgrade to an OS they prefer."
• "Isnt it also true that more and more people become tech informed and realise that you save lots and lots and lots of money by purchasing the individual parts of a pc"

This is definitely not the average MMO gamer that you describe there.

I've been playing MMO's since 2000, and built my first PC last month :)