I can't believe this. They're actually trying to pass this off as D&D? Seriously?

I logged in about an hour ago, decided to create a cleric. First off, I'm stuck with the 'devoted healer' cleric. Uhh, shouldn't that be something I decide myself while leveling? Secondly, I can't choose starting spells... or any spells at all. There are no spells, just 'abilities' like any other MMO. The hell?

I can't choose an alignment. I can't wear platemail, just chain. I don't wield a mace, gauntlet, club, or other simple weapon. I don't get to choose my starting feats. My holy symbol is my weapon, and I cast some stupid fucking 'lance of faith' spell as a default ranged attack. I HAVE NO MELEE ATTACK. Instead of having the option of using a shield, I dodge on a beam of light like Iceman from the X-Men.

Even worse, I CAN'T TURN UNDEAD. Are you fucking kidding me?!? A cleric can't turn undead. That's like saying a paladin can't 'lay on hands', or a fighter can't use a shield. Who the hell made this decision? And no, I don't mean I don't start with the ability... I mean it just simply isn't there. AT ALL.

This game is a complete and utter travesty. It's a fucking joke. It's D&D for the people who rode the short bus to school. Gary Gygax would come back from the dead as a lich and destroy Cryptic & WotC if he knew what they'd done to his creation. It's disgusting, and I feel physically ill after playing for an hour.

Anyone who's ever played D&D should be outraged at what they've done here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play Neverwinter Nights to wash the taste of this abomination out of my mouth.

It's based upon 4th Edition, which is NOWHERE near what 3rd Edition was.  You didn't have a lot of choices either.

To elaborate:

In 4th Edition, you chose a class.  Then a role.  You then got abilities based upon that.  It is WotC's attempt to make DnD kindof like an MMO for pen-paper people.

IMO of course.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

I can't believe this. They're actually trying to pass this off as D&D? Seriously?

I logged in about an hour ago, decided to create a cleric. First off, I'm stuck with the 'devoted healer' cleric. Uhh, shouldn't that be something I decide myself while leveling? Secondly, I can't choose starting spells... or any spells at all. There are no spells, just 'abilities' like any other MMO. The hell?

I can't choose an alignment. I can't wear platemail, just chain. I don't wield a mace, gauntlet, club, or other simple weapon. I don't get to choose my starting feats. My holy symbol is my weapon, and I cast some stupid fucking 'lance of faith' spell as a default ranged attack. I HAVE NO MELEE ATTACK. Instead of having the option of using a shield, I dodge on a beam of light like Iceman from the X-Men.

Even worse, I CAN'T TURN UNDEAD. Are you fucking kidding me?!? A cleric can't turn undead. That's like saying a paladin can't 'lay on hands', or a fighter can't use a shield. Who the hell made this decision? And no, I don't mean I don't start with the ability... I mean it just simply isn't there. AT ALL.

This game is a complete and utter travesty. It's a fucking joke. It's D&D for the people who rode the short bus to school. Gary Gygax would come back from the dead as a lich and destroy Cryptic & WotC if he knew what they'd done to his creation. It's disgusting, and I feel physically ill after playing for an hour.

Anyone who's ever played D&D should be outraged at what they've done here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play Neverwinter Nights to wash the taste of this abomination out of my mouth.

Got nothing to do with D&D except taht its based on forgotten realms lore..... Where D&D is all about freedom, this game is more like the ultimate themepark, many will love it, many will hate it, not being like D& D does not make it a bad game, just adifferent game.

Indeed, it's not D&D as we know it (guess you played AD&D2e like I did?). It's more an action MMO based on the Forgotten Realms created by Greenwood & Salvatore. But not quite that either... Thieflings as a native race in the FR..? In what realm (this Forgotten one obviously).

Played it an hour as well, and I'm not looking at it as the AD&D I used to play with pen-n-paper back in the late 80s till early this millenium (damn sounds like a long time... :p). Instead I'm playing it as an action game with some familiar elements and some that should not be there but hey, it's fantasy...

And yeah... Gary would stand up and head to the Cryptic studio's to do some lichdom there (can't say he'd return to the Forgotten Realms since he's the creator of Greyhawk ;-)

Originally posted by Reizla

Indeed, it's not D&D as we know it (guess you played AD&D2e like I did?). It's more an action MMO based on the Forgotten Realms created by Greenwood & Salvatore. But not quite that either... Thieflings as a native race in the FR..? In what realm (this Forgotten one obviously).

Played it an hour as well, and I'm not looking at it as the AD&D I used to play with pen-n-paper back in the late 80s till early this millenium (damn sounds like a long time... :p). Instead I'm playing it as an action game with some familiar elements and some that should not be there but hey, it's fantasy...

And yeah... Gary would stand up and head to the Cryptic studio's to do some lichdom there (can't say he'd return to the Forgotten Realms since he's the creator of Greyhawk ;-)

DnD has changed drastically since then.  4th Edition is rather "action" based tbh.

Originally posted by Roguewiz

Originally posted by Reizla

Indeed, it's not D&D as we know it (guess you played AD&D2e like I did?). It's more an action MMO based on the Forgotten Realms created by Greenwood & Salvatore. But not quite that either... Thieflings as a native race in the FR..? In what realm (this Forgotten one obviously).

Played it an hour as well, and I'm not looking at it as the AD&D I used to play with pen-n-paper back in the late 80s till early this millenium (damn sounds like a long time... :p). Instead I'm playing it as an action game with some familiar elements and some that should not be there but hey, it's fantasy...

And yeah... Gary would stand up and head to the Cryptic studio's to do some lichdom there (can't say he'd return to the Forgotten Realms since he's the creator of Greyhawk ;-)

DnD has changed drastically since then.  4th Edition is rather "action" based tbh.

Yeah, heard that from a friend who still plays 3.5 (I thought 3.x was already way more action based than 1 and 2 were). He doesn't like it either and has the same 'if I wanna play aciton I grab a PC game additude like I have. Looks like NW does a good job then ;-)

It has some good points. Spells have a cool down. Some are longer than others. Some can be cast over and over. Not as annoying in the paper keeping side of things.

I'm looking forward to trying NW out when it is released.

The only time I played 4th ed was with a few friends as a play test.  I played a Bard.  It wasn't that bad (but wasn't great)

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Originally posted by Rednecksith

I can't believe this. They're actually trying to pass this off as D&D? Seriously?

I logged in about an hour ago, decided to create a cleric. First off, I'm stuck with the 'devoted healer' cleric. Uhh, shouldn't that be something I decide myself while leveling? Secondly, I can't choose starting spells... or any spells at all. There are no spells, just 'abilities' like any other MMO. The hell?

I can't choose an alignment. I can't wear platemail, just chain. I don't wield a mace, gauntlet, club, or other simple weapon. I don't get to choose my starting feats. My holy symbol is my weapon, and I cast some stupid fucking 'lance of faith' spell as a default ranged attack. I HAVE NO MELEE ATTACK. Instead of having the option of using a shield, I dodge on a beam of light like Iceman from the X-Men.

Even worse, I CAN'T TURN UNDEAD. Are you fucking kidding me?!? A cleric can't turn undead. That's like saying a paladin can't 'lay on hands', or a fighter can't use a shield. Who the hell made this decision? And no, I don't mean I don't start with the ability... I mean it just simply isn't there. AT ALL.

This game is a complete and utter travesty. It's a fucking joke. It's D&D for the people who rode the short bus to school. Gary Gygax would come back from the dead as a lich and destroy Cryptic & WotC if he knew what they'd done to his creation. It's disgusting, and I feel physically ill after playing for an hour.

Anyone who's ever played D&D should be outraged at what they've done here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play Neverwinter Nights to wash the taste of this abomination out of my mouth.

Got nothing to do with D&D except taht its based on forgotten realms lore..... Where D&D is all about freedom, this game is more like the ultimate themepark, many will love it, many will hate it, not being like D& D does not make it a bad game, just adifferent game.

 What makes it really not DND is no DM.

Originally posted by Reizla

Originally posted by Roguewiz

Originally posted by Reizla

Indeed, it's not D&D as we know it (guess you played AD&D2e like I did?). It's more an action MMO based on the Forgotten Realms created by Greenwood & Salvatore. But not quite that either... Thieflings as a native race in the FR..? In what realm (this Forgotten one obviously).

Played it an hour as well, and I'm not looking at it as the AD&D I used to play with pen-n-paper back in the late 80s till early this millenium (damn sounds like a long time... :p). Instead I'm playing it as an action game with some familiar elements and some that should not be there but hey, it's fantasy...

And yeah... Gary would stand up and head to the Cryptic studio's to do some lichdom there (can't say he'd return to the Forgotten Realms since he's the creator of Greyhawk ;-)

DnD has changed drastically since then.  4th Edition is rather "action" based tbh.

Yeah, heard that from a friend who still plays 3.5 (I thought 3.x was already way more action based than 1 and 2 were). He doesn't like it either and has the same 'if I wanna play aciton I grab a PC game additude like I have. Looks like NW does a good job then ;-)

I have mixed feelings about how 4ed was implemented and further Cryptics interpretation of that, especially no xp for monster kills.  However, there are some very D&D aspects to the game.  It's just that between making it an mmo and 4ed it just doesn't feel like D&D of old.

I think the game is pretty fun so far, but I'm not sure it will become my primary game.  It's still very early beta though and we'll see where some time and polish bring it.

Agreed.

It is D&D, just not 3.5e. 4e D&D completely changed how the game originally played. It actually lends itself very well to the MMO environment. The only issue is that 4e D&D had many more powers to choose from.

But that might change once they start to release new classes. But, honestly, they will need to introduce MANY new classes to get everything they need into a full flegded 4e D&D.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

I can't believe this. They're actually trying to pass this off as D&D? Seriously?

I logged in about an hour ago, decided to create a cleric. First off, I'm stuck with the 'devoted healer' cleric. Uhh, shouldn't that be something I decide myself while leveling? Secondly, I can't choose starting spells... or any spells at all. There are no spells, just 'abilities' like any other MMO. The hell?

I can't choose an alignment. I can't wear platemail, just chain. I don't wield a mace, gauntlet, club, or other simple weapon. I don't get to choose my starting feats. My holy symbol is my weapon, and I cast some stupid fucking 'lance of faith' spell as a default ranged attack. I HAVE NO MELEE ATTACK. Instead of having the option of using a shield, I dodge on a beam of light like Iceman from the X-Men.

Even worse, I CAN'T TURN UNDEAD. Are you fucking kidding me?!? A cleric can't turn undead. That's like saying a paladin can't 'lay on hands', or a fighter can't use a shield. Who the hell made this decision? And no, I don't mean I don't start with the ability... I mean it just simply isn't there. AT ALL.

This game is a complete and utter travesty. It's a fucking joke. It's D&D for the people who rode the short bus to school. Gary Gygax would come back from the dead as a lich and destroy Cryptic & WotC if he knew what they'd done to his creation. It's disgusting, and I feel physically ill after playing for an hour.

Anyone who's ever played D&D should be outraged at what they've done here. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to play Neverwinter Nights to wash the taste of this abomination out of my mouth.

Your post gave me a much needed laugh on a busy Friday afternoon. I am actually hooked on playing nwn2 of late myself.

And honestly.. if i see another game with the Diablo control setup, i wont even read further... i want my RPGs back... not every RPG is now A-RPG. I guess that is why i am likely forever stuck playing DDO, vanguard, nwn2 ... ( old stuff ).  :(

Public Service Thread.

This is why Pathfinder is ascendant and 4th Edition is headed for the garbage bin.

I thought DnD was all about pint-sized barbarians, annoyingly cute miniature unicorns, and red-headed female thieves who sometimes show their panties when jumping on horseback. At least that was all in the cartoon version. Were they using 3ed rules back then?

Being an old-schooler, it is difficult envisioning wanting to play NWN under the current rules system as is described in the OP, but I still will wait for some reviews.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Public Service Thread.

This is why Pathfinder is ascendant and 4th Edition is headed for the garbage bin.

Sorry, but 3/3.5 sucks for game play.  4ed isn't that bad and actually reminds me a lot of 1ed with an update.  1ed was really simple and straight forward.  Somewhere along the way 3.5 ed became this ugly bloated mess of complexity that added nothing to the game.  The fact that you can feck up your entire character to a point of unplayability unless you choose one of the min/max builds is a fatal flaw right there.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by ignore_me

Public Service Thread.

This is why Pathfinder is ascendant and 4th Edition is headed for the garbage bin.

Sorry, but 3/3.5 sucks for game play.  4ed isn't that bad and actually reminds me a lot of 1ed with an update.  1ed was really simple and straight forward.  Somewhere along the way 3.5 ed became this ugly bloated mess of complexity that added nothing to the game.  The fact that you can feck up your entire character to a point of unplayability unless you choose one of the min/max builds is a fatal flaw right there.

Untrue. The only way you could screw up your character is if you had absolutely zero understanding of the rules and / or your class mechanics. A lot of 3 / 3.5's complexity wasn't necessary; they were simply optional rules put there for people who wanted to use them.

I don't know how closely this game emulates the 4.0 ruleset, but it's so incredibly dumbed down from games such as Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Temple of Elemental Evil, and DDO that I honestly feel personally insulted by it.

Its based off DnD 4th edition which is a bit watered down and 'meh' version of the old style. In that regard, it is a lot closer then what you claim it to NOT be, but sure its definently missing some things and the very stingy classes aren't a very positive thing either.  Granted 4th edition isn't all that great in terms of being more free for class design, this does take out a lot of those choices that were left over which is in my opinion a negative flaw and pretty much taking out the best part of what made DnD fun.

3.5 wasn't perfect mind you (thus why pathfinder came to exist to take 3.5 and evolve it) but I do feel it was far better then 4th edition. The glory of 3.5 being used is a lot of the elements could be done under the seens, and in some degree, yes, you can have it so people don't worry about some of those 'complex' elements without infringing too much on the rules. 

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by ignore_me

Public Service Thread.

This is why Pathfinder is ascendant and 4th Edition is headed for the garbage bin.

Sorry, but 3/3.5 sucks for game play.  4ed isn't that bad and actually reminds me a lot of 1ed with an update.  1ed was really simple and straight forward.  Somewhere along the way 3.5 ed became this ugly bloated mess of complexity that added nothing to the game.  The fact that you can feck up your entire character to a point of unplayability unless you choose one of the min/max builds is a fatal flaw right there.

Untrue. The only way you could screw up your character is if you had absolutely zero understanding of the rules and / or your class mechanics. A lot of 3 / 3.5's complexity wasn't necessary; they were simply optional rules put there for people who wanted to use them.

I don't know how closely this game emulates the 4.0 ruleset, but it's so incredibly dumbed down from games such as Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Temple of Elemental Evil, and DDO that I honestly feel personally insulted by it.

Oh please, anyone who's played DDO knows you need to have a vetted build or you'll suck and not only that, people won't let you into groups.  You could easily ruin a character if you made the wrong feat choices.  Saying all that was simply optional is disengenuious at best.

I feel insulted by the people who insist that 3.5ed is the only true D&D ruleset.  4ed is a lot closer to 1ed than 3.5 can ever be.  3.5ed is the worst mess ever to hit D&D.

Baldur's Gate, Icewindale, and PS:T were incredibly simple "dumbed down" games.  It wasn't about your epic paragon build.  They were about the story first and how you played.

So you don't know anything about the 4ed rules, but are complaining because it's not 3.5ed.  That makes sense.  EXTERMINATE!

so what makes this game any different then the yawn fest that was TERA?  The foundry? cause so far I have seen nothing interesting at all