Originally posted by birdycephon

Originally posted by Nilenya

If Samsung want to sell pc's sell them with win7 - win8 is your choice - you update to it, or you downgrade to win7 from a new pc.

Tbe problem is that they have a contract with MS that tbey will be preloading their PCs with Win8. I doubt that MS is even sending them any more Win7 licences. 

If that's the case, then it's their own fault for signing a contract with Microsoft that requires them to do something stupid.

Unless, of course, Microsoft refused to still sell them Windows 7 licenses, which would be odd.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Nilenya

Tbh I doubt it.

Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.

DRAM prices have gone up in the last few months.

Right, not sure what you're trying to say.

IN regards to the article, Samsung says that their major investments are going to DRAM because of their success and demand in mobile compared to conventional chips, which once against shows the shifting landscape from traditional PC to mobile.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Nilenya

Tbh I doubt it.

Well there's not a lot to doubt, they're not lying about their figures. Both sales of their own PC units and DRAM prices, they know what they're talking about.

DRAM prices have gone up in the last few months.

Right, not sure what you're trying to say.

IN regards to the article, Samsung says that their major investments are going to DRAM because of their success and demand in mobile compared to conventional chips, which once against shows the shifting landscape from traditional PC to mobile.

It's supply and demand.  Prices go up, sales go down.  Prices go down, sales go up.  The system normalizes somewhere in the middle.

Either way Win8 has nothing to do with DRAM prices.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
I don't think desktop sales have gone down, its just more people are building their own or going to small independent retailers rather than pay inflated prices for pcs with non standard components from the big manufacturers.

Laptops are another matter though, they are getting hit hard by ios / Android devices.

AMD and Intel are reporting that CPU sales are down, too.  Whether you buy from an OEM or build your own, you probably need a CPU from either AMD or Intel.

-----

The real "problem" is that once computers are good enough, there's no need to replace it every 3 years anymore.  I built a nice computer in 2009.  Today, it's still nice, so I see no urgent need to replace it.  Every other computer that I've ever had felt rather dated 3 years after I got it.

If people used to replace a computer every 3 years, and now replace it every 5 years instead, then that's a 40% drop in annual sales right there.  The 3 and 5 are made up numbers, of course, but the longer replacement cycle is not.

It's partially because gains in what hardware can do have slowed down.  It used to be that if you bought a computer, four years later, you could expect to buy something new that was about four times as fast.  Compared to the computer I built in 2009, however, you're not getting something four times as fast.  A Radeon HD 7950 is maybe twice as fast as my Radeon HD 5850.  (I cite the 7950 in particular because it's the natural successor card for a clean comparison--and the 7950 is actually more expensive than the $260 that I paid for my 5850.)  A Core i7-3770K is maybe 50% faster than my Core i7-860.  My aging video card still supports the latest graphics APIs, apart from the irrelevant DirectX 11.1.  I've got an SSD, and newer SSDs are much faster in synthetic benchmarks, but even my old OCZ Agility is so fast in real-world use that there isn't much gains to be had from a faster SSD.  I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.

Originally posted by Quizzical

I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.

This right here.  I have Win8, but it's not that big of a difference over Win7 apart from the attempt to market their start screen to touch-screeners.  I think Samsung and the rest are up shit creek for a different reason.

Originally posted by Burntvet
Yeah, over-saturation with various devices is the problem. Things that only a desktop or laptop could do before can be done on tablets, netbooks, Smartphones, PS3s, and even the high end E-readers. So, it is no surprise that PC sales are down. That said, while Windows 8 is "nothing special" (and continues the "Every Other Windows OS Release is Meh" curse) I do not think it is the primary problem.

 Well said...There is just too much other stuff out now (and all of it is cheaper than a PC).....Its also an issue for game makers now as they have to decide what format they are going to tailor their game to......It used to be a no-brainer but now there are other things to think about.

Originally posted by Myria

Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade?

The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.

This would be my guess as well.  Even as a hobbyst I find myself upgrading much less than I used to 15-20 years ago.  I can't justify the price of upgrades vs the performance increase that I'd see.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by ShakyMo
I don't think desktop sales have gone down, its just more people are building their own or going to small independent retailers rather than pay inflated prices for pcs with non standard components from the big manufacturers.

Laptops are another matter though, they are getting hit hard by ios / Android devices.

AMD and Intel are reporting that CPU sales are down, too.  Whether you buy from an OEM or build your own, you probably need a CPU from either AMD or Intel.

-----

The real "problem" is that once computers are good enough, there's no need to replace it every 3 years anymore.  I built a nice computer in 2009.  Today, it's still nice, so I see no urgent need to replace it.  Every other computer that I've ever had felt rather dated 3 years after I got it.

If people used to replace a computer every 3 years, and now replace it every 5 years instead, then that's a 40% drop in annual sales right there.  The 3 and 5 are made up numbers, of course, but the longer replacement cycle is not.

It's partially because gains in what hardware can do have slowed down.  It used to be that if you bought a computer, four years later, you could expect to buy something new that was about four times as fast.  Compared to the computer I built in 2009, however, you're not getting something four times as fast.  A Radeon HD 7950 is maybe twice as fast as my Radeon HD 5850.  (I cite the 7950 in particular because it's the natural successor card for a clean comparison--and the 7950 is actually more expensive than the $260 that I paid for my 5850.)  A Core i7-3770K is maybe 50% faster than my Core i7-860.  My aging video card still supports the latest graphics APIs, apart from the irrelevant DirectX 11.1.  I've got an SSD, and newer SSDs are much faster in synthetic benchmarks, but even my old OCZ Agility is so fast in real-world use that there isn't much gains to be had from a faster SSD.  I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.

Yeah, I am going to be getting my wife, and probably me a computer soon, and was thinking how old my wife's computer was, and it still plays games decently.  We would get new computers every 3 years or so, like clockwork, and when we did, the old ones were garbage.

A buddy of mine bought a computer about a year and a half ago, got a GTX 570 card in it, that is still pretty comparible to a GTX 660/660 TI, which is plenty to play anything coming out, unless you have multiple monitors or feel the need to play at high resolutions and maybe on ultra or something.  Was telling him how his card he bought is still nice now.

Windows 8 does not scare me, never used it, but it won't stop me from getting it.  I am looking at building my own computer and I will be ordering Win 8 as the OS.  I have 7 now, and I have no problem with it, but I cannot see 8 being that big a deal.  I have a windows phone I like, and 8 works better with the phones atm also, so that will be a plus for me.

Tablet sales also are killing them, between that and computers lasting longer, I think this is the new cycle for computers, not saying their isn't people that refuse to use windows 8, but if you want a computer with windows 7, I have zero problems finding computers with 7, and copies of 7...Most of the build sites also offer both 7 and 8 atm.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Originally posted by ShakyMo
I don't think desktop sales have gone down, its just more people are building their own or going to small independent retailers rather than pay inflated prices for pcs with non standard components from the big manufacturers.

Laptops are another matter though, they are getting hit hard by ios / Android devices.

AMD and Intel are reporting that CPU sales are down, too.  Whether you buy from an OEM or build your own, you probably need a CPU from either AMD or Intel.

-----

The real "problem" is that once computers are good enough, there's no need to replace it every 3 years anymore.  I built a nice computer in 2009.  Today, it's still nice, so I see no urgent need to replace it.  Every other computer that I've ever had felt rather dated 3 years after I got it.

If people used to replace a computer every 3 years, and now replace it every 5 years instead, then that's a 40% drop in annual sales right there.  The 3 and 5 are made up numbers, of course, but the longer replacement cycle is not.

It's partially because gains in what hardware can do have slowed down.  It used to be that if you bought a computer, four years later, you could expect to buy something new that was about four times as fast.  Compared to the computer I built in 2009, however, you're not getting something four times as fast.  A Radeon HD 7950 is maybe twice as fast as my Radeon HD 5850.  (I cite the 7950 in particular because it's the natural successor card for a clean comparison--and the 7950 is actually more expensive than the $260 that I paid for my 5850.)  A Core i7-3770K is maybe 50% faster than my Core i7-860.  My aging video card still supports the latest graphics APIs, apart from the irrelevant DirectX 11.1.  I've got an SSD, and newer SSDs are much faster in synthetic benchmarks, but even my old OCZ Agility is so fast in real-world use that there isn't much gains to be had from a faster SSD.  I've got Windows 7, and while Windows 8 is newer, the last OS that was enough of an advance to justify an upgrade for OS reasons alone was Windows XP.

Ive never owned a gaming computer, always used a factory bought with a gaming gfx card and power supply.  That was untill 2 years ago, I bought a $1200 gaming rig with all the bells and whistles from Ibuypower.com and I can run every game I've played at max settings.  Do not think I'll need to upgrade this machine for a very long time (5+ years).

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share.

/sarcasm off

Originally posted by Arclan

I'm sure this has nothing to do with the terrible state of the world economy. Also I doubt the millions of units Apple is shipping is cutting into Samsung's market share.

/sarcasm off

Well, you would have a good argument if Samsung's other premium products were becoming an issue, but Samsung's TV sales are doing good for example.

The economy in developing nations isn't bad at all, many of them are able to afford electronics like televisions, and PC too.

I worked for Microsoft (in engineering and development) for many years.  The product has declined since Windows XP.  Though I will say I was impressed with Windows 7 (made after I left).  Vista was a disaster.

I dont like the direction of Windows 8 but also have not installed it yet.  But have heard that there are security issues with games running on Windows 8 that made me hesistant.  Unfortunately I cant remember the details but I do remember I didnt like it.

Originally posted by Myria

PC sales were in decline long before Windows8 launched, frankly blaming that on Win8 is moronic in the extreme.

I could see saying Win8 didn't pick sales up the way previous versions have, but that's a different thing, and, frankly probably not really relevenant. Between mobile computing having taken off and the pace of computing having vastly slowed, a sales slowdown is and was inevitable, regardless of what MS did.

Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade?

The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.

That is false. PC sales increased from 2010 to 2011 (http://www.statisticbrain.com/computer-sales-statistics/) and has been steadily increasing since 2000. So something has caused it to drop from 2011 to 2012 which coincidently was the year Win 8 was released.

And didnt "pick up sales" and decline IS the same thing, because every new windows version is shipped with new PCs so the decline could very well be because customers were reluctant to get a PC with windows 8 on it.

The fact is that windows 8 brought very little to the desktop PCs and actually degraded the UI for those who do not have a touch screen so it makes perfect sense that people would not get a PC with an operative system which apparently adds nothing to it. Where as Windows 7 added a lot over Windows Vista, which added some over Windows XP (but not much).

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Myria

Most people are computer-saturated and have been for some time. Their system from three years ago can do everything they want and more, Win7 is rock stable and, again, does everything they want and more, so why upgrade?

The days of an OS upgrade being a compelling reason to upgrade your system are long behind us, nothing MS could really do about that.

This would be my guess as well.  Even as a hobbyst I find myself upgrading much less than I used to 15-20 years ago.  I can't justify the price of upgrades vs the performance increase that I'd see.

Same here.  I was considering buying a new gaming computer for Christmas but after some thought concluded that my 3year old non-gaming computer was still fine for my gaming needs.  Instead I bought a SSD and a new sound card and decided to revist the issue in 6 months to see if anything changed.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

I get increasingly worried about what Microsoft is doing since it's really not going to help PC gaming if they keep making these kind of blunders.

Samsung just said they're not selling PC anymore because no one wants Windows 8, it;s all over the news: http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/03/133_131743.html

You could argue that it's samsung's fault. But Acer, HP and Fujitsu have suffered huge losses too and they all said it happened after the launch of Windows 8.

Isn't this going to have a very negative impact on MMO too if no one even cares to update or buy a PC because of Windows 8.

No this is a huge plus!!!

now developers can finally make MMOs based on gameplay rather then keep trying to improve graphics.

that money that went into improving graphics every year in the genre and can be used for better gameplay.

YES!!!!!!!

Yeah.. I wouldn't blame declining PC sales on an Operating System.. But like everyone has said, the PC is declining because it is being phased into everything else.. Phones, Tablets, even Consoles will become more like a standard PC so the actual benefit of having a bulky PC set on a desk and such may be slowly coming to an end..

It's to bad people don't read the information so freely available on the internet. I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8 PRO for 39.99. I DON"T us the app layout. I have a start button AND start menu. It looks like Windows 7 but runs better. In fact the background coding for Windows 8 improves my CPU AMD 8350 capabilities IN GAME. That is why I bought it. I learned I could customize my desktop to run like Windows 7 yet have the performance capabilities that exceeded my previous operating system. Although the increase between operating systems is small, it is still an increase. 

Don't be fooled thinking you need to use the touch screen interface if you decide to move to Windows 8. 

Gamers pay up to 100 bucks on closed loop water cooling systems to decrease their CPU temps so they can over clock. It was an easy choice for me once I learned the information I needed to make a decision.

Protip: Download Pokki App. It will give you an EXCELLENT windows menu and start button.