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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Fluff and housing is lost

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  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

3/08/13 1:12:51 AM#21
Originally posted by Quirhid
No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

 

Yea you're right.  Because the Sims wasn't one of the best selling games of all time.   A game that was nearly entirely nothing but fluff, housing, etc.    Woops. 

 

Your point is now dead.  You're welcome. 

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/08/13 1:20:46 AM#22
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/08/13 1:25:14 AM#23
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Zekiah
The NAO generation is like a plague of locusts consuming MMOs quickly then moving on to the next short-lived feast. Guess which gamers the developers of today cater to.

That's the irony though; extensive open-ended features like housing would actually make those players less likely to move on so soon as it's not the sort of thing that can be 'finished'. The solution to the 'content locust' plague is actually to offer them open systems that can't be completed. When there's no end in sight there's less compulsion to run through it as fast as you can.

Its not ironic because it does not happen. Those who actually enjoy that type of gameplay as their main form of entertainment are the huge minority, and always have been. Even in UO and SWG. If it were not the case then there would have been noticable uptick in their sub numbers after WoW launched instead of the massive fall off that never came even close to returning.

Originally posted by Corehaven
Originally posted by Quirhid
No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

 

Yea you're right.  Because the Sims wasn't one of the best selling games of all time.   A game that was nearly entirely nothing but fluff, housing, etc.    Woops. 

 

Your point is now dead.  You're welcome. 

Sure it is, just like every single game ever should become Minecraft right? Generally speaking those who go to mmorpgs are not actively looking for that type of gameplay. Its much the same reason why generally sandbox games do not do well. With computer use suplanting tv usage many mmos are filling that same niche. Ie sitcoms. Its a large part of the reason why WoW has grown in the way it has, and maintained the subs that it does. Not to say that there are not players looking for other kinds of entertainment, nor that those forms of entertainment should be catered to in one form or another, merely that expecting every single game that comes out to be your next paradise is stupid when you consider just how expensive and difficult it is to get many of them going.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/08/13 1:28:03 AM#24
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 791

3/08/13 1:40:16 AM#25
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

You proved his point nicely there Jim.    Well done!

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/08/13 1:44:16 AM#26
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

'Focusing' implies that's almost all they did. In other words a lot more than 30% actually made use of non-combat features. Even I primarily focus on combat as the main progression system in MMOs, but I would dabble in other systems all the time, to give variety and have more fun.

I imagine most players in UO made use of the housing features in some way and it enriched their experience playing the game. A player does not have to exclusively do one thing all the time for it to be worthwhile...

EDIT: Come to think of it, 30% of players focusing entirely on non-combat activities... 30% is a very BIG chunk of the population and that's a 30% that modern MMOs aren't appealing to at all.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/08/13 2:02:05 AM#27
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

'Focusing' implies that's almost all they did. In other words a lot more than 30% actually made use of non-combat features. Even I primarily focus on combat as the main progression system in MMOs, but I would dabble in other systems all the time, to give variety and have more fun.

I imagine most players in UO made use of the housing features in some way and it enriched their experience playing the game. A player does not have to exclusively do one thing all the time for it to be worthwhile...

EDIT: Come to think of it, 30% of players focusing entirely on non-combat activities... 30% is a very BIG chunk of the population and that's a 30% that modern MMOs aren't appealing to at all.

Indeed. But when you have x amount of money to spend on developing something do you create content for the many or for the very few? Look at Rift and its Joy of Dimensions contest. They had all of 1000 entries. Even looking at shard listings all of 100 per shard actually go out of their way to create or actively use their dimension. Players rather obviously have voted with their wallets and shown that when it comes to these sorts of games they really are not overly interested in housing. If they did Eq2 or Lotro would be far more popular. Hell, those who were interesed in those features would have went back to UO or even Swg. If housing was anywhere near as important as you claim then the nge never would have happened in the first place!

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/08/13 2:05:12 AM#28
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

'Focusing' implies that's almost all they did. In other words a lot more than 30% actually made use of non-combat features. Even I primarily focus on combat as the main progression system in MMOs, but I would dabble in other systems all the time, to give variety and have more fun.

I imagine most players in UO made use of the housing features in some way and it enriched their experience playing the game. A player does not have to exclusively do one thing all the time for it to be worthwhile...

EDIT: Come to think of it, 30% of players focusing entirely on non-combat activities... 30% is a very BIG chunk of the population and that's a 30% that modern MMOs aren't appealing to at all.

Agreed, especially since you didn`t have much choice but to focus on fighting to a large degree, just to survive, especially in the early days.  Plus those mats you need to make addons don`t just fall from the sky.... :) 

What many seem to try to gloss over is that if a game is nothing but combat, then eventually that combat becomes repetitive and boring for even the most ardent hack and slasher and they either cry boredom loud enough to get the devs to mess up the combat system for everyone else, or they leave for other games looking for what noone can give them, endless thrills.  Just look at the pvp communities that travel from game to game if you need an example, FL ring a bell? 

Even those in rl combat professions tend to enjoy coming home where they can fire up the barbeque, char a few steaks, and put their feet up while enjoying a cold brew without worrying about some sniper blasting them in the back of the head. 

All many of us rpgers want to do is be able to provide those homes, the chairs, the barbeque, the steaks, the brew and even the tankards to drink it from, where's the harm?  If nothing else, we will keep the game going until you combatants decide you want to come home and if you never do, at least we will still have one.

  ragz45

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 482

3/08/13 2:14:59 AM#29
Originally posted by Quirhid
No, we don't need fluff, housing or other stuff not involving killing. Devoting as much time to them as "the killing part" is mad, because those features are nowhere near as popular. The killing stuff sells - fluff & housing does not.

Heh, this right here is what is wrong with the MMO industry now days.  When MMO's went from being niche crowd games with EQ, AO, AC etc;  to pandering to the CoD crowd with WoW etc, MMO's went downhill.  Things went from indepth systems that had real consenquences for all of your actions, to simple slaughter 15mobs at a time, no faction's to worry about, and zero real consequences to your actions.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/08/13 2:15:20 AM#30
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Indeed. But when you have x amount of money to spend on developing something do you create content for the many or for the very few? Look at Rift and its Joy of Dimensions contest. They had all of 1000 entries. Even looking at shard listings all of 100 per shard actually go out of their way to create or actively use their dimension. Players rather obviously have voted with their wallets and shown that when it comes to these sorts of games they really are not overly interested in housing. If they did Eq2 or Lotro would be far more popular. Hell, those who were interesed in those features would have went back to UO or even Swg. If housing was anywhere near as important as you claim then the nge never would have happened in the first place!

Rift, I did try it and some may have liked it enough to stick out the launch bugs but I wasn't one of them so yes all I saw was the combat but that is what drove me away, the constant fighting was just endlessly boring for me and re the Dimensions system, sorry but imo that can't hold a candle to what UO offers in the way of housing. 

The point is that just because a combat oriented game implements housing, fishing, crafting, etc. that doesn't mean it'll guarantee success, but it will draw in a larger and imo more stable population but if they want to keep them, those "extra" features better be at least as good as the combat part.

Lol, well there you go, I have gone back to UO.

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/08/13 2:15:22 AM#31
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

'Focusing' implies that's almost all they did. In other words a lot more than 30% actually made use of non-combat features. Even I primarily focus on combat as the main progression system in MMOs, but I would dabble in other systems all the time, to give variety and have more fun.

I imagine most players in UO made use of the housing features in some way and it enriched their experience playing the game. A player does not have to exclusively do one thing all the time for it to be worthwhile...

EDIT: Come to think of it, 30% of players focusing entirely on non-combat activities... 30% is a very BIG chunk of the population and that's a 30% that modern MMOs aren't appealing to at all.

Indeed. But when you have x amount of money to spend on developing something do you create content for the many or for the very few? Look at Rift and its Joy of Dimensions contest. They had all of 1000 entries. Even looking at shard listings all of 100 per shard actually go out of their way to create or actively use their dimension. Players rather obviously have voted with their wallets and shown that when it comes to these sorts of games they really are not overly interested in housing. If they did Eq2 or Lotro would be far more popular. Hell, those who were interesed in those features would have went back to UO or even Swg. If housing was anywhere near as important as you claim then the nge never would have happened in the first place!

If it is so obvious that housing is incredibly unpopular then why are both FFXIV and Wildstar getting it?

The example from Rift is a bit stupid anyway; I play Rift, I use my dimension, but I didn't enter the contest... I had no interest in it. The number of entries is in no way representative of how many players make use of the feature. Again shard listings will only show dimensions open to the public so that number is also in no way representative.

I played EQ2 and LotRO. I loved EQ2's housing system but left for other reasons. LotRO has arguably the worst housing system ever implemented as there's really very little customisation available. Why would people interested in those features go back and play old games just for them? If all the new MMOs for the next year had no combat would you suddenly want to go back and play an old MMO you already left? No, likely not...

It's been quite a while since a 'good' modern MMO included housing. The players interested in that stuff just want a more up to date release that appeals to them. Thankfully at least two big titles releasing this year are high in fluff content so clearly the devs don't agree with you...

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/08/13 2:32:18 AM#32
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Indeed. But when you have x amount of money to spend on developing something do you create content for the many or for the very few? Look at Rift and its Joy of Dimensions contest. They had all of 1000 entries. Even looking at shard listings all of 100 per shard actually go out of their way to create or actively use their dimension. Players rather obviously have voted with their wallets and shown that when it comes to these sorts of games they really are not overly interested in housing. If they did Eq2 or Lotro would be far more popular. Hell, those who were interesed in those features would have went back to UO or even Swg. If housing was anywhere near as important as you claim then the nge never would have happened in the first place!

Rift, I did try it and some may have liked it enough to stick out the launch bugs but I wasn't one of them so yes all I saw was the combat but that is what drove me away, the constant fighting was just endlessly boring for me and re the Dimensions system, sorry but imo that can't hold a candle to what UO offers in the way of housing. 

The point is that just because a combat oriented game implements housing, fishing, crafting, etc. that doesn't mean it'll guarantee success, but it will draw in a larger and imo more stable population but if they want to keep them, those "extra" features better be at least as good as the combat part.

Lol, well there you go, I have gone back to UO.

Sure, you did but the vast majority obviously have not. Which was my point.

Originally posted by Alberel

The example from Rift is a bit stupid anyway; I play Rift, I use my dimension, but I didn't enter the contest... I had no interest in it. The number of entries is in no way representative of how many players make use of the feature. Again shard listings will only show dimensions open to the public so that number is also in no way representative.

I played EQ2 and LotRO. I loved EQ2's housing system but left for other reasons. LotRO has arguably the worst housing system ever implemented as there's really very little customisation available. Why would people interested in those features go back and play old games just for them? If all the new MMOs for the next year had no combat would you suddenly want to go back and play an old MMO you already left? No, likely not...

It's been quite a while since a 'good' modern MMO included housing. The players interested in that stuff just want a more up to date release that appeals to them. Thankfully at least two big titles releasing this year are high in fluff content so clearly the devs don't agree with you...

How is it stupid? Its a current gen mildly popular title that has tried to appeal to your demographic and rather obviously your demographic has turned up your nose at it, just as they have to Lotro and Eq2. As for ff14, its a rebranded relaunch, not really a new game, and even if it were how successful its going to be has yet to be shown. Similarly for Wildstar. Its bringing back 40 man raiding too, do you really think that is going to take off? I mean I am looking forward to it also, even for the 40 man raiding, but I honestly do not believe that those are going to be the parts that make it a success, if its a success at all.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/08/13 2:52:32 AM#33
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Indeed. But when you have x amount of money to spend on developing something do you create content for the many or for the very few? Look at Rift and its Joy of Dimensions contest. They had all of 1000 entries. Even looking at shard listings all of 100 per shard actually go out of their way to create or actively use their dimension. Players rather obviously have voted with their wallets and shown that when it comes to these sorts of games they really are not overly interested in housing. If they did Eq2 or Lotro would be far more popular. Hell, those who were interesed in those features would have went back to UO or even Swg. If housing was anywhere near as important as you claim then the nge never would have happened in the first place!

Rift, I did try it and some may have liked it enough to stick out the launch bugs but I wasn't one of them so yes all I saw was the combat but that is what drove me away, the constant fighting was just endlessly boring for me and re the Dimensions system, sorry but imo that can't hold a candle to what UO offers in the way of housing. 

The point is that just because a combat oriented game implements housing, fishing, crafting, etc. that doesn't mean it'll guarantee success, but it will draw in a larger and imo more stable population but if they want to keep them, those "extra" features better be at least as good as the combat part.

Lol, well there you go, I have gone back to UO.

Sure, you did but the vast majority obviously have not. Which was my point.

Hmm, so just because the vast majority are still game hopping hoping some dev will eventually hit on a formula that gives them some decent fluff with their blood and guts we should just accept the current trend to fps lobby games? 

All because some bean counter has decided that their development budget is better served by catering to players who are typically endgamers that have little to no loyalty to any game and will jump ship because their gear has been made obsolete by the latest xpack, rather than investing in gamers that like to spend years supporting and playing a game that lets them "live" in that virtual world? 

Iow's running after the quick buck rather than the sure one... I suppose if you are only investing in a product and want a quick return that makes sense, too bad it will eventually ruin the market for them especially with f2p taking over.  Soon there won't be anyone left willing to pay to play any game.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/08/13 2:59:16 AM#34
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by jimdandy26

Indeed. But when you have x amount of money to spend on developing something do you create content for the many or for the very few? Look at Rift and its Joy of Dimensions contest. They had all of 1000 entries. Even looking at shard listings all of 100 per shard actually go out of their way to create or actively use their dimension. Players rather obviously have voted with their wallets and shown that when it comes to these sorts of games they really are not overly interested in housing. If they did Eq2 or Lotro would be far more popular. Hell, those who were interesed in those features would have went back to UO or even Swg. If housing was anywhere near as important as you claim then the nge never would have happened in the first place!

Rift, I did try it and some may have liked it enough to stick out the launch bugs but I wasn't one of them so yes all I saw was the combat but that is what drove me away, the constant fighting was just endlessly boring for me and re the Dimensions system, sorry but imo that can't hold a candle to what UO offers in the way of housing. 

The point is that just because a combat oriented game implements housing, fishing, crafting, etc. that doesn't mean it'll guarantee success, but it will draw in a larger and imo more stable population but if they want to keep them, those "extra" features better be at least as good as the combat part.

Lol, well there you go, I have gone back to UO.

Sure, you did but the vast majority obviously have not. Which was my point.

Hmm, so just because the vast majority are still game hopping hoping some dev will eventually hit on a formula that gives them some decent fluff with their blood and guts we should just accept the current trend to fps lobby games? 

All because some bean counter has decided that their development budget is better served by catering to players who are typically endgamers that have little to no loyalty to any game and will jump ship because their gear has been made obsolete by the latest xpack, rather than investing in gamers that like to spend years supporting and playing a game that lets them "live" in that virtual world? 

Iow's running after the quick buck rather than the sure one... I suppose if you are only investing in a product and want a quick return that makes sense, too bad it will eventually ruin the market for them especially with f2p taking over.  Soon there won't be anyone left willing to pay to play any game.

But thats the point, its ALWAYS been this way. Even back in the "good ol days" of UO and Swg. Those who wants housing and to play a blacksmith are extremely few and far between, with the majority of those who use it only doing so because the ends justify the means. In Eq2 the majority used their house because they had to for storage, not because they wanted to play decorator. The majority of players craft because crafting grants them things, not becase their character is the bestest blacksmith that ever lived!

Also, jumping to the highest levels of hyperbole as the basis for your argument does you much more harm than good, just sayin.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2153

 
OP  3/08/13 3:09:14 AM#35
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

 

So if UO had 1 million players that means 300k of those likes housing,crafting and fluff, I think that number is pretty big if you look at it.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6165

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

3/08/13 3:12:33 AM#36
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

 Most older MMO's did not have housing.  Housing has always been rare. 

They all have fluff, old and new.

But yes we could always use more.

Meridian59, Ultima Online, EQ, SWG, Final Fantasy did have player housing, I consider them to be "older games"

Quirhid: I know fluff, housing and other none combat feature''s arn't populair towards today's masses. Though in SWG I had met many gamers over the years that also thought that crafting, housing, actuall roleplaying, dancing was not something they would enjoy but many actually started to enjoy it as it gave the game a much broader playing space, which ment longetivity.

But you also might remember there is a playerbase that does like it and that  that player base might already get their game combat fix from other genre in games and just seek out a different experiance in a MMORPG, you know an experiance that isn't limited to combat only.  But where combat and non combat are mutually beneficial.

 

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/08/13 3:12:47 AM#37
Originally posted by Torgrim
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
If you want fluff, play sims.  If you want fluff and an mmo play Mabinogi.  If you want a fluffy mmo and nice graphics, wait for someone to sell PC's to gamers, no upgrade required, instead of selling PC's to secretaries.


I hope this is sarcasm, otherwise I could just as easily say if all you want is combat go play CoD and leave the virtual worlds to rpgers... :)

Exactly, the irony is MMOs used to be a lot more 'fluffy' with lots to do besides combat. Players telling us to go play something else when we ask for things like housing are completely oblivious to the fact that THEY are the ones in the wrong genre... MMOs were not always about only combat and more combat.

Not quite, even Koster came out and said that UO at its hight only had 30% of its population focusing on noncombat activity.

 

So if UO had 1 million players that means 300k of those likes housing,crafting and fluff, I think that number is pretty big if you look at it.

Sure, except UO capped at 250k, and even that was just prior to the release of WoW which the majority went on a mass exodus to.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/08/13 3:24:18 AM#38

nm someone allready said it

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

3/08/13 3:30:58 AM#39
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

 Most older MMO's did not have housing.  Housing has always been rare. 

They all have fluff, old and new.

But yes we could always use more.

Meridian59, Ultima Online, EQ, SWG, Final Fantasy did have player housing, I consider them to be "older games"

Quirhid: I know fluff, housing and other none combat feature''s arn't populair towards today's masses. Though in SWG I had met many gamers over the years that also thought that crafting, housing, actuall roleplaying, dancing was not something they would enjoy but many actually started to enjoy it as it gave the game a much broader playing space, which ment longetivity.

But you also might remember there is a playerbase that does like it and that  that player base might already get their game combat fix from other genre in games and just seek out a different experiance in a MMORPG, you know an experiance that isn't limited to combat only.  But where combat and non combat are mutually beneficial.

 

EQ did not have housng until very very late in the game, what was it House of Thule in 2010 I believe.  Yes the others had them.  And those were the biggest but not the only ones. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

3/08/13 3:35:32 AM#40

It's not forgotten, it's just a trait of older games.  WOW has a ton of this stuff nowadays (I mean...they even developed an entire combat system around vanity pets.)

I mean there's certainly a market for a game which is a medley of weak, buggy features (elder scrolls), but personally I like games which focus on a small number of strong core systems and execute the main system really well.  Then those games can eventually grow to have a lot of extra fluff (in directions that make sense.)

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