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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Bite-size gaming .. the future of MMO?

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466 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

3/07/13 3:42:56 PM#21
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon It is a time to adapt and change.

 

Or they could be more conservative with their budgets and goals, target the audience who wants something that fits over a grander scale of time and corner the market.

They would get my money for sure.

That's just not going to happen, apart from design mistakes or poor business decisions allowing it to happen.

The demand starts extremely low: few are able or willing to invest the time in a forced, long-session game.

Then the demand is reduced by the fact that existing products already reward long-session gamers!  I can do one 10-20 min WOW dungeon in a short session, or I can do an 8-hour marathon session and really advance my character.

The fredom of players to choose their session length is rewarded with better sales.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

3/07/13 3:58:10 PM#22
Originally posted by birdycephon
Now what we need is some android-based MMOs. Cuz you know that's where it's headed.

Yeah, I think there is going to be some movement in that direction, though the bulk of MMORPGs will remain geared toward desktops.  Unlike consoles, you can make an Android game without having to give Google a large chunk of your revenue, so that won't be a barrier.  If you want decent 3D graphics, you may have to wait a bit for better hardware, but it's getting there.  A quad core ARM Cortex A15 together with whatever the top Imagination PowerVR Rogue graphics option will be would probably be pretty nifty for gaming on a tablet and have plenty of power to do quite a lot.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

3/07/13 4:00:39 PM#23
Originally posted by dave6660

How small of a time frame are we talking about here?  15 minutes, 10 minutes, 2 minutes?

At what point does it begin to get absurd?  Maybe there's a point where you have to say to yourself, "I don't have time to play video games right now".

To me, the bigger deal is not so much the minimum time requirement to do anything as the maximum.  I don't particularly care if I can do much in a five minute session; if I only have five minutes, I probably won't launch a game, and wouldn't even if the game were designed to be playable in five-minute chunks.  If half of the content requires you to set aside a 3 hour block of time, I find that completely game-breaking.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 4:33:06 PM#24
Originally posted by Axehilt
 

That's just not going to happen, apart from design mistakes or poor business decisions allowing it to happen.

The demand starts extremely low: few are able or willing to invest the time in a forced, long-session game.

Then the demand is reduced by the fact that existing products already reward long-session gamers!  I can do one 10-20 min WOW dungeon in a short session, or I can do an 8-hour marathon session and really advance my character.

The fredom of players to choose their session length is rewarded with better sales.

They, at least, get my sale. I found that it is good to be able to pop into say D3, and run act 3 keep 2 (which costs roughly 10 min) and get a farming run done.

The point is not that i only do 10 min run, but a game has highly fun factor if there is such an option. Often i have like 20 min before dinner .. and something like a 10-15 min quick session will be ideal.

If i have a longer period of time, i will do a 30 min mission in STO, or do a more complete run in D3.

But the point is that i won't play games that requires 3 hours long session (and the associated commitment) anymore.

MMOs, for their own good, is recognizing this trend and be more friend to people who like this style of gaming.

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3604

3/07/13 4:33:57 PM#25
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I don't see why we can't have short gaming sessions.

There is no reason why a game can't last years, but have whatever content broken up into smaller sections.

Dungeon runs that take hours to complete but can be broken up into many sections.  Quests are the same.  I can't see any downsides to having a short session be part of a longer experience.

Yup, just like a SP game, have checkpoints within dungeons.  You should be able to reach checkpoints in 5-10 minutes so that if you only have a little while to play, you get to a checkpoint, your game is saved and you can log off.  If you log off before reaching a checkpoint, you go back to the last checkpoint you reached.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5917

3/07/13 4:34:13 PM#26
Originally posted by Aelious
As you said titles already have "short term" play into their games, and have for a while, so what are you referring to when you say it's time for change and adaptation? I don't get it.

Clever way of saying pro-Corpg

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3712

RIP City of Heroes!

3/07/13 4:40:55 PM#27
Originally posted by dave6660

How small of a time frame are we talking about here?  15 minutes, 10 minutes, 2 minutes?

At what point does it begin to get absurd?  Maybe there's a point where you have to say to yourself, "I don't have time to play video games right now".

 For a themepark pve game, IMO, the point where people want 15 minute runs to have the gear of people who are spending many more hours raiding endgame.  They might as well add shops where you can buy gear with cash or in game tokens.  Oh wait...

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 4:41:57 PM#28
Originally posted by Cephus404
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

I don't see why we can't have short gaming sessions.

There is no reason why a game can't last years, but have whatever content broken up into smaller sections.

Dungeon runs that take hours to complete but can be broken up into many sections.  Quests are the same.  I can't see any downsides to having a short session be part of a longer experience.

Yup, just like a SP game, have checkpoints within dungeons.  You should be able to reach checkpoints in 5-10 minutes so that if you only have a little while to play, you get to a checkpoint, your game is saved and you can log off.  If you log off before reaching a checkpoint, you go back to the last checkpoint you reached.

That will work. I prefer ability to save anywhere, but checkpoint is better than nothing.

There is no reason why people shouldn't be able to "save" after each boss/segment in an instanced dungeon.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 4:43:23 PM#29
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by dave6660

How small of a time frame are we talking about here?  15 minutes, 10 minutes, 2 minutes?

At what point does it begin to get absurd?  Maybe there's a point where you have to say to yourself, "I don't have time to play video games right now".

 For a themepark pve game, IMO, the point where people want 15 minute runs to have the gear of people who are spending many more hours raiding endgame.  They might as well add shops where you can buy gear with cash or in game tokens.  Oh wait...

You confuse about the duration of EACH session vs how many session to play.

It does not take more than 15 min to fight ONE boss in a raid. Just do LFR, and let people choose individual boss to fight. To get all the good stuff, you still have to play lots of 15 min sessions ...

but you don't have to commit to 3 hours long session before you can actually play.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 4:44:28 PM#30
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rojo6934

Just my personal opinion. Open world (if done right) beats every lobby based mmorpg combined.

 

And it is my person opinion that many lobby based games are more fun than every open world MMORPG combined.

Which begs the question, since you've said in other threads there are already too many games available for you to ever play,  why don't you play the games you do like, instead of trying to influence change in the few remaining open world mmorpgs to something reminiscent of console rpgs to suit your ftp lobby tastes?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 4:47:35 PM#31
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by rojo6934

Just my personal opinion. Open world (if done right) beats every lobby based mmorpg combined.

 

And it is my person opinion that many lobby based games are more fun than every open world MMORPG combined.

Which begs the question, since you've said in other threads there are already too many games available for you to ever play,  why don't you play the games you like instead of trying to change all the open world mmorpgs to suit your lobby tastes?

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3712

RIP City of Heroes!

3/07/13 4:53:23 PM#32
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by dave6660

How small of a time frame are we talking about here?  15 minutes, 10 minutes, 2 minutes?

At what point does it begin to get absurd?  Maybe there's a point where you have to say to yourself, "I don't have time to play video games right now".

 For a themepark pve game, IMO, the point where people want 15 minute runs to have the gear of people who are spending many more hours raiding endgame.  They might as well add shops where you can buy gear with cash or in game tokens.  Oh wait...

You confuse about the duration of EACH session vs how many session to play.

It does not take more than 15 min to fight ONE boss in a raid. Just do LFR, and let people choose individual boss to fight. To get all the good stuff, you still have to play lots of 15 min sessions ...

but you don't have to commit to 3 hours long session before you can actually play.

 Well, I think there should be benefits to the hardcore over the 15 minute people.  15 minutes to a boss is too short imo.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 4:57:54 PM#33
Originally posted by waynejr2
 

 Well, I think there should be benefits to the hardcore over the 15 minute people.  15 minutes to a boss is too short imo.

First, most boss fights are under 15 min right now. In fact, most are under 5 min. You only need 15 min to buff up and kill trash. So it is already there. The only difference is that currently most pve MMOs don't let you just fight one boss.

Secondly, why should there be benefits to the hardcore? Their money is just the same as teh 15 min players.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 4:58:45 PM#34
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

  dave6660

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2320

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

3/07/13 5:05:01 PM#35
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by dave6660

How small of a time frame are we talking about here?  15 minutes, 10 minutes, 2 minutes?

At what point does it begin to get absurd?  Maybe there's a point where you have to say to yourself, "I don't have time to play video games right now".

I would say 15-30 min.

22 min is an episode of sitcom (without commercial).

I can agree with 30 minutes.  Anything less I probably wouldn't bother starting a game.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17008

3/07/13 5:13:35 PM#36
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by nariusseldon It is a time to adapt and change.

 

Or they could be more conservative with their budgets and goals, target the audience who wants something that fits over a grander scale of time and corner the market.

They would get my money for sure.

That's just not going to happen, apart from design mistakes or poor business decisions allowing it to happen.

The demand starts extremely low: few are able or willing to invest the time in a forced, long-session game.

Then the demand is reduced by the fact that existing products already reward long-session gamers!  I can do one 10-20 min WOW dungeon in a short session, or I can do an 8-hour marathon session and really advance my character.

The fredom of players to choose their session length is rewarded with better sales.

The last sentence is of course true but better sales doesn't necessarily mean that lesser sales will still make it successful.

Well, look at EVE. the game is what it is. The developers have tried to make the learning curve a bit more palatable but the game is this incredibly deep universe of player interaction. They don't have millions of players. They basically made the game they wanted and then allowed players do discover it.

I don't see why someone couldn't make a game that had more in depth, longer game play experiences and the demographic for those experiences would then play that game provided they did a good job.

I mean "I" would be able to play a game that had longer experiences. Are you saying that I'm the only person left on the planet who is willing to do that? Or maybe there are two of us? And if there are two of us might there not be more? 90k people maybe?

Of course one might have to temper their expectations as far as how "shiny" the game is compared to AAA games out there who might try for millions.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 5:29:43 PM#37
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  3/07/13 5:32:49 PM#38
Originally posted by Sovrath

I don't see why someone couldn't make a game that had more in depth, longer game play experiences and the demographic for those experiences would then play that game provided they did a good job.

I don't see what depth has to do with the option of short game sessions.

Break up a dungeon of 4 bosses into 4 independent part do NOT change the depth of the combat experience with each of them. Think about a dungeon with 4 boss that takes you 2 hours to go through. What if now there is a save point after each boss, so you can kill one, go have dinner, and come back for the next one.

There is no change in terms of depth, challenge, except it is more convenient.

In fact, play-time has nothing to do with challenge. A 5 min encounter with an elite or ubder boss on MP10 in D3 (which can be played in 15 min) is more challenging than 3 hours dungeon runs.

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 6:51:03 PM#39
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aeolyn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Where do you read that i want to change open world MMORPGs?

Of course i play the many games available for me .. i never hid that .. i play D3, PoE, STO, Dead Space 3 ......

And it is fair game to express my opinion of which games i find fun, just like the other guy. This thread is about the trend i have seen, not a plead to change things.

Gaming is pretty fun to me. Why should i want to change things? There are more games than i have time for anyway.

Hmm well this quote from your first post surely implies to me that you think they should change "MMO devs certainly should feel pressured by some of these non-MMOs where the playstyle can be quite similar to MMOs. It is a time to adapt and change."

This is a general statement about the adapting to survive in the marketplace. That is different from "I *want* them to change due to personal preference".

Don't you think devs should adapt to the market place, given the competition, no matter what you personal preference is?

No actually I don't, otherwise we will all end up with less choice, kinda like having nothing but Targets and Wal-Marts to shop at instead of specialized shops that give us those unique items that large chains don't see a "market" for.  Just because the masses want something doesn't mean we all do nor should we.  Just think of some of the inventions we've seen in our own lifetimes because some"one" decided the status quo wasn't quite cutting if for them?  Maybe we should all go back to the days of walking... going faster, farther, and with less effort due to someone being dissatified with what the masses did, what a concept eh?

  Aeolyn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/08
Posts: 136

3/07/13 6:53:59 PM#40
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Sovrath

I don't see why someone couldn't make a game that had more in depth, longer game play experiences and the demographic for those experiences would then play that game provided they did a good job.

I don't see what depth has to do with the option of short game sessions.

Break up a dungeon of 4 bosses into 4 independent part do NOT change the depth of the combat experience with each of them. Think about a dungeon with 4 boss that takes you 2 hours to go through. What if now there is a save point after each boss, so you can kill one, go have dinner, and come back for the next one.

There is no change in terms of depth, challenge, except it is more convenient.

In fact, play-time has nothing to do with challenge. A 5 min encounter with an elite or ubder boss on MP10 in D3 (which can be played in 15 min) is more challenging than 3 hours dungeon runs.

From my perspective, depth may not have much to do with optional short game sessions but it does have everything to do with immersion, the key imo to a great mmorpg.  Instead of waiting at some checkpoint because the group you started a dungeon with moved on without you and you now need to find another to get to the next checkpoint, does break immersion.  If all you want is a ladder game, go for it, but if you want epic battles in a virtual world.....

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