Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,738,226 Users Online:0
Games:715  Posts:6,176,983
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Horizontal progression? It's here.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
31 posts found
  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 4:25:59 PM#1

People have been asking for horizontal progression for a long time; there was a huge outcry over it over on the GW2 forums with the Ascended Gear.  I'm here to tell you that horizontal progression is here in The Secret World.  No levels, no classes, only 10 levels of gear and no indication that more are coming.

In TSW, many think you get to "max level" by filling in the entire ability wheel and obtaining the 10.5 "quality levels" (QL) of gear.  And indeed some people are asking when "higher gear" is coming.  

But here's where I think people are getting it wrong.  When you complete the ability wheel, all you have achieved is maximum flexibility.  You can own every ability in the game, have access to the entire ability POOL, but the real power is in the 7 active / 7 passive decks slots, and you are limited to those 7/7 slots no matter if you have 20 abilities or all 525.  

Reward us instead with some awesome cosmetic outfits for completing the hardest content, maybe some quality of life items, and we have what everyone keeps saying they want -- horizontal progress.  Make the challenge about finding the right decks, and team combinations, not pure gear stats.  Push the ability wheel to it's limit -- you've got 77,258,540,228,633,700,000,000 possible decks  in TSW -- so the number possibility for variation (and challenging dungeon content to test those variations) is almost infinite. The devs have stated that future upgrades will be to the POOL of abilities not to the POWER of those abilities.  

TSW is about skill, flexibility and adaptability, not pure power.  You wanted horizontal progression?  It's already here.

P.S. No, I am not talking about the other sandbox stuff (owpvp, housing, crafting, economy, etc) -- I want that as well, but I am talking about eliminating the gear grind here.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/06/13 4:33:23 PM#2
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 4:38:30 PM#3
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

  dmm02

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 24

3/06/13 4:47:19 PM#4
problem is people flock to the #1 build at any given time. Most are not theory crafting and target dummy practicing or w.e for hours to hone their decks they simply google best deck TSW or w.e.. The gear is what keeps them coming not the build variability. If you make an encounter that requires you to change your build then said people are just going to again google / research what "deck to beat so and so".. only a small percent atleast in my opinion truly are challenged or put forth their effort to create decks / beat raid bosses / become great at pvp the rest just watch a youtube video or look at a skill tree build and repeat...
  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/06/13 4:54:55 PM#5
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. Running the parser to find out what stats to stack in what amounts took much more trial and error, but again that was due to the nonsensical stat system. Especially when the abilities themselves actually overwrite your stats! Promoting the game on what could be when they have shown no evidence of being able to deliver (especially on time) is foolish.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1294

3/06/13 4:58:17 PM#6
Originally posted by dmm02
problem is people flock to the #1 build at any given time. Most are not theory crafting and target dummy practicing or w.e for hours to hone their decks they simply google best deck TSW or w.e.. The gear is what keeps them coming not the build variability. If you make an encounter that requires you to change your build then said people are just going to again google / research what "deck to beat so and so"..

Whats you point. Nerf the game so Theory crafters cant theory craft because some people will just google a answer.  Aparently games are no longer about what you enjoy instead its about getting Epic Epeen Gear with Epic Epeen Build.

 

People who want to figure it out, will figure it out. People who are lazy will fumble with other peoples builds until they figure out how it works.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 5:01:10 PM#7
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. Running the parser to find out what stats to stack in what amounts took much more trial and error, but again that was due to the nonsensical stat system. Especially when the abilities themselves actually overwrite your stats! Promoting the game on what could be when they have shown no evidence of being able to deliver (especially on time) is foolish.

The game system is better suited to being able to provide that challenge than any I've seen.  Ability wheel is closer to eliminating the gear grind than any I've seen.  In and of itself, that's huge.  You can piss and moan about release schedules (only 6 updates in 9 months -- wah!!), but we have something pretty awesome here.

  dmm02

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 24

3/06/13 5:08:36 PM#8
Originally posted by Rayshe
Originally posted by dmm02
problem is people flock to the #1 build at any given time. Most are not theory crafting and target dummy practicing or w.e for hours to hone their decks they simply google best deck TSW or w.e.. The gear is what keeps them coming not the build variability. If you make an encounter that requires you to change your build then said people are just going to again google / research what "deck to beat so and so"..

Whats you point. Nerf the game so Theory crafters cant theory craft because some people will just google a answer.  Aparently games are no longer about what you enjoy instead its about getting Epic Epeen Gear with Epic Epeen Build.

 

People who want to figure it out, will figure it out. People who are lazy will fumble with other peoples builds until they figure out how it works.

Why are you bashing me? This isnt just pretaining to TSW i am talking about most MMO games in general I am in agreement with what the OP is getting accross but the OP is saying that they should reward the players with cosmetic non stat / gear progession. Im simply saying they are cartering to the masses they have to if they want to keep their success(yes you can go on and on about niche games and like but lets avoid that here). I am all for increasing difficulty and allowing theory crafting im simply stating that most are simply going to google best way to beat so and so or best build for X class for most that Epeen Gear is what keeps them coming back

"aparently games are no longer about what you enjoy instead its about getting Epic Epeen Gear with Epic Epeen Build." Have you played any AAA titles recently you pretty much summarized most of em right there

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 5:09:44 PM#9
Originally posted by Rayshe
Originally posted by dmm02
problem is people flock to the #1 build at any given time. Most are not theory crafting and target dummy practicing or w.e for hours to hone their decks they simply google best deck TSW or w.e.. The gear is what keeps them coming not the build variability. If you make an encounter that requires you to change your build then said people are just going to again google / research what "deck to beat so and so"..

Whats you point. Nerf the game so Theory crafters cant theory craft because some people will just google a answer.  Aparently games are no longer about what you enjoy instead its about getting Epic Epeen Gear with Epic Epeen Build.

 

People who want to figure it out, will figure it out. People who are lazy will fumble with other peoples builds until they figure out how it works.

The bleeding edge players will have lots to do in figuring out the combination of abilities in their decks as well as the makeup of their team.  Sure, gear will play a part but it might require certain types of gear over others for a particular run.  Of course, the others who don't want to figure it out can just copy it, but they'll still have to figure out the timing, when to switch decks, figure out the dance between players -- it'll be a challenge in any case.  Sure, eventually everyone will figure it out, but it'll be a fun journey to get there.

Another twist -- what if a Group Wheel is added?  Abiltiies that can only be triggered through coordination as a team?  Epicness.

  Rthuth434

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 367

3/06/13 5:10:57 PM#10

there's more tiers of max level gear than GW2 here, and they will be added much more frequently. there's no horizintal progression outside of unlocking a number of skills.

TSW progression is vertical and gated(raid/dungeon lockouts). PVP is all about gear difference.

 

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1951

3/06/13 5:18:12 PM#11
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Not everyone's interested in competitve, best, elite, über mode...

I, for example like to messing with the wheel, assemble interesting or funny decks and playing with them. Not viable? Sometimes :) Not competitve? Most of the times. But who cares? It's fun. Not to mention I rather help random pugs in normal with my scrappy but fun deck, than sitting in Agartha and listen to those elitist p***s spamming 18/18, etc :)

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 5:23:14 PM#12
Originally posted by Rthuth434

there's more tiers of max level gear than GW2 here, and they will be added much more frequently. there's no horizintal progression outside of unlocking a number of skills.

TSW progression is vertical and gated(raid/dungeon lockouts). PVP is all about gear difference.

Sure, take your 10.5 gear into Fusang against the vets who know their decks well and tell me how well you do....  

Gear progression is vertical up to QL10.5, but doubt we'll see much gear growth beyond that.  After you've got full QL10.5 gear and full wheel completion, it's all about who makes better decks.  So vertical through the game and seriously horizontal at endgame.  The challenge in both PvP and in the endgame content will be to the decks and the teamwork.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 5:33:20 PM#13
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. 

lol I just realized you are talking about the pre-made decks.  Have you ever created your own custom decks?  If you think the outfit decks are what make up the game you have missed pretty much everything about what makes TSW amazing.  Do you understand active/passive combos?  Just want to make sure I am not missing something.

The outfit decks are pretty much just the training wheels to the game.  

  Agent_Joseph

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/11/06
Posts: 773

3/06/13 5:41:59 PM#14
I use(have) 50+ builds ,depend where I am & what I must to do

only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/06/13 5:46:32 PM#15
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. Running the parser to find out what stats to stack in what amounts took much more trial and error, but again that was due to the nonsensical stat system. Especially when the abilities themselves actually overwrite your stats! Promoting the game on what could be when they have shown no evidence of being able to deliver (especially on time) is foolish.

The game system is better suited to being able to provide that challenge than any I've seen.  Ability wheel is closer to eliminating the gear grind than any I've seen.  In and of itself, that's huge.  You can piss and moan about release schedules (only 6 updates in 9 months -- wah!!), but we have something pretty awesome here.

Except its not in the slightest. Abilities are roughly half how effective your build is, the other half being if you have the correct stats to be there. No matter how many abilities you have if you do not have a decent amount of pen and hit you will not beat Polaris for example. Besides part of your "pro" in the op is that "abilities will not go up in power, we will just get more of them" which is blatently false. Besides even looking at the wheel in its current state (where many abilities have wide variation of power levels) every other game that has attempted that has run into 2 problems. Either one, they copy a ton of abilities (like they have already done) or they introduce power creep and end up having to cycle abilities through (like all of the good/popular ccgs have done, you know that same process that the developers said ages ago the system was designed like).

You are quite correct, the combat system has a TON of potential. Funcom however has no idea how to realize it though. I gave extensive feedback directly to the development team in closed beta and on the test server. I tested the raid with the dev. Every issue that are complained about I identified, and even offered different ways of fixing. They keep missing on key points because they do not know what they are doing. The raid is too complicated for a pug (without adequete tools I might add) but far too easy for any decently oragnized group. Lairs require far too much management for a pug (they get nothing out of it individually) and far too boring for an organized group. Most of the instance content does not even semi requre thinking thanks to how easy it is to just flatly overpower. You cannot mix and match parts of different levels of difficulty and expect things to go smoothly.

As to content, yeah, they made promises full well knowing what kind of financial situation they were in. That writing was on the wall even before launch. I too didn't listen to those saying it was yet another trap by Funcom, because thats really what it was. The company itself is horribly managed. I frankly do not care who they have had to lay off, or who has quit and why. They are producing a service. A service that so far has had numerous problems, many of which are fairly gamebreaking and have yet to be resolved. Gear manager for example is STILL broken. Many of those abilities that you love so much still do not operate how they should according to the description. A couple of quests a month really is not too much to ask for considering just how much of those first couple updates were actually available in closed beta in slightly different variation. I mean hell, I, a complete novice, went from knowing absolutely nothing to creating Skyrim mods in less than a month. If I can one man show a quest one would think a team of 40 should be able to bang out a couple.

Now honestly, I get it. You love the game and are trying your damnedest to see it succeed and grow. Thats fine. No matter how big a turd anything is there is always a chunk of people who will love it. It is the way of human nature. Whats not ok is completely misrepresenting how awesome the extremely flawed, rather mediocre overall title is to get people to do that. In the end you are actually doing more harm than good.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/06/13 5:49:25 PM#16
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. 

lol I just realized you are talking about the pre-made decks.  Have you ever created your own custom decks?  If you think the outfit decks are what make up the game you have missed pretty much everything about what makes TSW amazing.  Do you understand active/passive combos?  Just want to make sure I am not missing something.

The outfit decks are pretty much just the training wheels to the game.  

No, master planner. You know those achievements you get for completing each instance without changing abilities or talismans. You know that thing that is actually slightly challenging.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

3/06/13 5:51:24 PM#17
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Not everyone's interested in competitve, best, elite, über mode...

I, for example like to messing with the wheel, assemble interesting or funny decks and playing with them. Not viable? Sometimes :) Not competitve? Most of the times. But who cares? It's fun. Not to mention I rather help random pugs in normal with my scrappy but fun deck, than sitting in Agartha and listen to those elitist p***s spamming 18/18, etc :)

Gimping yourself to artificially add challenge is not the hallmark of a decently designed system.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 5:53:04 PM#18
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. 

lol I just realized you are talking about the pre-made decks.  Have you ever created your own custom decks?  If you think the outfit decks are what make up the game you have missed pretty much everything about what makes TSW amazing.  Do you understand active/passive combos?  Just want to make sure I am not missing something.

The outfit decks are pretty much just the training wheels to the game.  

No, master planner. You know those achievements you get for completing each instance without changing abilities or talismans. You know that thing that is actually slightly challenging.

Okay, whoops apologies for that...  I saw outfits and misread.

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1032

 
OP  3/06/13 6:09:34 PM#19
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Don't feel bad about a thing.  Yes, I know not all those combinations are viable, but I also know not every build has been found, as much as people like to preach that (we lack imagination, really).  What happens if a new boss is created that specifically trashes those "competitive" combinations?  Guess you'll have to adapt...  You're basing those 15 on what you've seen, not what is possible.

Same thing happens in PvP.  Everytime the "one true build" comes along, another is made to trounce it.

And I'm completely fine without a gear challenge.  I want a deck challenge.

You mean the deck challenge they have yet to give us? I have all my master planner outfits. Deck wise figuring out each instance was not very challenging at all. Running the parser to find out what stats to stack in what amounts took much more trial and error, but again that was due to the nonsensical stat system. Especially when the abilities themselves actually overwrite your stats! Promoting the game on what could be when they have shown no evidence of being able to deliver (especially on time) is foolish.

The game system is better suited to being able to provide that challenge than any I've seen.  Ability wheel is closer to eliminating the gear grind than any I've seen.  In and of itself, that's huge.  You can piss and moan about release schedules (only 6 updates in 9 months -- wah!!), but we have something pretty awesome here.

Except its not in the slightest. Abilities are roughly half how effective your build is, the other half being if you have the correct stats to be there. No matter how many abilities you have if you do not have a decent amount of pen and hit you will not beat Polaris for example. Besides part of your "pro" in the op is that "abilities will not go up in power, we will just get more of them" which is blatently false. Besides even looking at the wheel in its current state (where many abilities have wide variation of power levels) every other game that has attempted that has run into 2 problems. Either one, they copy a ton of abilities (like they have already done) or they introduce power creep and end up having to cycle abilities through (like all of the good/popular ccgs have done, you know that same process that the developers said ages ago the system was designed like).

Well, the gear is the vertical part of the equation -- you need to have a certain gear level and stats to do a certain dungeon -- that's fine, and how it should be as you progress through the bulk of the game, with things getting progressively harder.  But once you've maxed everything, you've got a perfect system to grow horizontally -- creating challenges based on deck combinations.  You've already got the best gear, or the gear needed right?  The aux weapons for variety, perhaps unusual decks required for unusual mobs, and possibily some sort of Group wheel that must be coordinated.  So far, the balance in the deck abilities are pretty good -- only a bit of tweaking may be necessary.  Introduce some different gear that can help in certain situations.

You are quite correct, the combat system has a TON of potential. Funcom however has no idea how to realize it though. I gave extensive feedback directly to the development team in closed beta and on the test server. I tested the raid with the dev. Every issue that are complained about I identified, and even offered different ways of fixing. They keep missing on key points because they do not know what they are doing. The raid is too complicated for a pug (without adequete tools I might add) but far too easy for any decently oragnized group. Lairs require far too much management for a pug (they get nothing out of it individually) and far too boring for an organized group. Most of the instance content does not even semi requre thinking thanks to how easy it is to just flatly overpower. You cannot mix and match parts of different levels of difficulty and expect things to go smoothly.

I don't know if you can say that the same company that created a system that has a ton of potential is not the same company to realize it.  I'd think they understand it better than anyone, even you or me as armchair developers.  And honestly, who can know fully what outcome there can be without the full playerbase playing the content?  It's not something that can be tested -- they can ultimately only release it and learn.  I've thought more about how to work this combat system than most other games I've played, and finding the right deck mix for a particular dungeon or even mob out in the world is something you just don't see in other games.

Now honestly, I get it. You love the game and are trying your damnedest to see it succeed and grow. Thats fine. No matter how big a turd anything is there is always a chunk of people who will love it. It is the way of human nature. Whats not ok is completely misrepresenting how awesome the extremely flawed, rather mediocre overall title is to get people to do that. In the end you are actually doing more harm than good.

Actually not my reason at all, or maybe just a part of the reason.  I have a huge interest in game systems, and TSW is the game I have seen closest to realizing horizontal progression -- I've yet to see something skill based work well in the MMO space, and the leveling/gear focused grind is something I won't miss saying goodbye to.  And I think the discussion/debate is worthwhile and interesting.  I do like the game, would like to see more players, but I'm not going to worry too much about people if it's not their cup of tea.  Or whether you have given up on it or not.

 

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 1951

3/06/13 6:10:05 PM#20
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by jimdandy26
You should feel bad for misrepresenting the game. Of those billions of combinations all of 100 are really viable, and of those maybe 15 are competitive. Whats more, there is no content in the game that actually challenges the gear you have due to how their stats cap.

Not everyone's interested in competitve, best, elite, über mode...

I, for example like to messing with the wheel, assemble interesting or funny decks and playing with them. Not viable? Sometimes :) Not competitve? Most of the times. But who cares? It's fun. Not to mention I rather help random pugs in normal with my scrappy but fun deck, than sitting in Agartha and listen to those elitist p***s spamming 18/18, etc :)

Gimping yourself to artificially add challenge is not the hallmark of a decently designed system.

I didn't ment it for the challenge, maybe I  wrote it wrong. I just hate gear grind, so I don't want to waste months just to increase the decimal number on my 10.x gear up one notch. Especially not if the only reward is e-peen and the same dungeons on very nightmare hard mode. (it's not only TSW, I refuse to grind gear in every mmo).

So, wheel unlocked, best decks saved (though FC could fix the damn gear management...), what's left? Replay missions, roleplay, help lower buddies and pugs ... and goofing with the wheel. That's what I do nowadays :)

2 Pages 1 2 » Search