Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Phry

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

They are going to likely be put into a queue.

for a game that focuses on 3 faction PVP that would be an epic fail, which is why they are using the 'mega server' method, to avoid that happening. 

No instances would be a fail. As how can you take over a map in one shard and in another shard that same side of the war is losing, how to you decide what side won? If they make instances of the same PvP shard they better have a really good way of dealing with it or people will quit this game faster then SWToR.

Its kind of unavoidable, there will have to be several versions of cyrodil for each pve server, if your wondering why, just look at GW2, which had a huge problem with overflow etc, and queues, and that was in a game that wasnt as heavily focused on PVP, although obviously GW2 PVP is a major part of the game, in ESO it is even more so. So it will be quite possible for people on the same pve server to be playing radically different pvp games

No one can ever say that you don't enjoy giving the thumbs up.

 

More to the point, you aren't linking your logic together. I'm trying to understand what you're saying. I understood what Maelwydd was saying, who was actually confused about how they will mix what they are promising with what is possible. But you just go:

 

GW2 had queue problems -> TESO is more PvP centric than GW2 -> People on the same server in TESO will play different PvP games.  

 

I feel like everyone is missing some important facts before this argument should be happening.

Maybe you can enlighten me because if the PvP zones can hold a maximum of X people and Y people want to enter then and if Y is bigger than X (quite likely as this game is being promoted as a RvR game) then you either have instancing of PvP zones or queues. Neither which is good.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

5 years of development where each factions area is designed with that faction in mind. Story with voice over, quests, dungeons and I am sure more. Why would we want to make the game shallow by making all the areas generic and for everyone? Its way cooler and imersive to play the areas as the developer has designed them to be seen. If I have to see another area I would rather see it as the faction that area was designed for, so an alt. 

You keep yelling for open world PvP and flagged PvP in the open world. Do you not get thats a broken system that PvEers hate. Pure PvEers like to have their own space to play the game and the current system gives them that but with the current system gives PvPers what they are looking for, faction pride, focused PvP!!! DAoC is the gold standard when it comes to this, why would we want 2nd or 3rd best option? So we have the freedom to play anywhere on one char? Its worth giving that all up for one thing? No thanks!!!!

I prefer PvE to PvP in an RPG. I want the option to explore. Why not allow it if it is possible? And why would it work any different then their megaserver idea? You say you are in RP and exploration you get putinto the same instances as other Rp'ers and explorers. You want OW PvP same applies. Flagged PvP just another instance....what is YOUR problem with allowing it now? You have your way I playing, i have mine, what is the problem?

 

Edit - And stop saying DAOC is the GOLD standard. It isn't popular anymore, wan't a great success on release and isn't the be all and end all of MMO design. Many example to proove that fact, stop using it as your default 'I have nothing else to justify my position' chant.

Saying its not does not change the fact it is. Every PvP game on every MMO forum end up being judged by the DAoC standard. It  is what it is. Much like WoW is the standard every Themepark MMO has been judged. Warhammer tired adding PvP everywhere and it took the focus away from one central focused area everyone PvPs. This spread the war so thin everywhere it made the PvP watered down and uneventful. Large scale battles were rare because PvP was so spread out. Having all PvP focused on one map makes for more PvP fun. You again are asking to break down the gold standard of RvR. There are so many reasons why messing with a system that worked is not worth all the great ideas people think they have here. Because many failed MMOs have proved there not. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

5 years of development where each factions area is designed with that faction in mind. Story with voice over, quests, dungeons and I am sure more. Why would we want to make the game shallow by making all the areas generic and for everyone? Its way cooler and imersive to play the areas as the developer has designed them to be seen. If I have to see another area I would rather see it as the faction that area was designed for, so an alt. 

You keep yelling for open world PvP and flagged PvP in the open world. Do you not get thats a broken system that PvEers hate. Pure PvEers like to have their own space to play the game and the current system gives them that but with the current system gives PvPers what they are looking for, faction pride, focused PvP!!! DAoC is the gold standard when it comes to this, why would we want 2nd or 3rd best option? So we have the freedom to play anywhere on one char? Its worth giving that all up for one thing? No thanks!!!!

I prefer PvE to PvP in an RPG. I want the option to explore. Why not allow it if it is possible? And why would it work any different then their megaserver idea? You say you are in RP and exploration you get putinto the same instances as other Rp'ers and explorers. You want OW PvP same applies. Flagged PvP just another instance....what is YOUR problem with allowing it now? You have your way I playing, i have mine, what is the problem?

 

Edit - And stop saying DAOC is the GOLD standard. It isn't popular anymore, wan't a great success on release and isn't the be all and end all of MMO design. Many example to proove that fact, stop using it as your default 'I have nothing else to justify my position' chant.

Saying its not does not change the fact it is. Every PvP game on every MMO forum end up being judged by the DAoC standard. It  is what it is. Much like WoW is the standard every Themepark MMO has been judged. Warhammer tired adding PvP everywhere and it took the focus away from one central focused area everyone PvPs. This pread the war so thin everywhere it made the PvP watered down and uneventful. Large scale battles were rare because PvP was so spread out. Having all PvP focused on one map makes for more PvP fun. You again are asking to break down the gold standard of RvR. There are so many reasons why messing with a system that worked is not worth all the great ideas people think they have here. Because many failed MMOs have proved there not. 

No hes right DAoC wasnt that popular when it came out nor was it the standard of pvp.  And funny you bring up WAR werent some Mythic guys making that.  For some reason ex mythic devs keep trying to remake DAoC. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

Saying its not does not change the fact it is. Every PvP game on every MMO forum end up being judged by the DAoC standard. It  is what it is. Much like WoW is the standard every Themepark MMO has been judged. Warhammer tired adding PvP everywhere and it took the focus away from one central focused area everyone PvPs. This spread the war so thin everywhere it made the PvP watered down and uneventful. Large scale battles were rare because PvP was so spread out. Having all PvP focused on one map makes for more PvP fun. You again are asking to break down the gold standard of RvR. There are so many reasons why messing with a system that worked is not worth all the great ideas people think they have here. Because many failed MMOs have proved there not. 

I am not asking for your precious 'DAOC gold standard' of PvP to change. Simply saying, because a lot of people don't like it and want a different experiance, either open world PvP or flagged but be able to explore theo world, and if their technology allows it, what the fuck is your problem allowing it?

Originally posted by EvolvedMonky

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

5 years of development where each factions area is designed with that faction in mind. Story with voice over, quests, dungeons and I am sure more. Why would we want to make the game shallow by making all the areas generic and for everyone? Its way cooler and imersive to play the areas as the developer has designed them to be seen. If I have to see another area I would rather see it as the faction that area was designed for, so an alt. 

You keep yelling for open world PvP and flagged PvP in the open world. Do you not get thats a broken system that PvEers hate. Pure PvEers like to have their own space to play the game and the current system gives them that but with the current system gives PvPers what they are looking for, faction pride, focused PvP!!! DAoC is the gold standard when it comes to this, why would we want 2nd or 3rd best option? So we have the freedom to play anywhere on one char? Its worth giving that all up for one thing? No thanks!!!!

I prefer PvE to PvP in an RPG. I want the option to explore. Why not allow it if it is possible? And why would it work any different then their megaserver idea? You say you are in RP and exploration you get putinto the same instances as other Rp'ers and explorers. You want OW PvP same applies. Flagged PvP just another instance....what is YOUR problem with allowing it now? You have your way I playing, i have mine, what is the problem?

 

Edit - And stop saying DAOC is the GOLD standard. It isn't popular anymore, wan't a great success on release and isn't the be all and end all of MMO design. Many example to proove that fact, stop using it as your default 'I have nothing else to justify my position' chant.

Saying its not does not change the fact it is. Every PvP game on every MMO forum end up being judged by the DAoC standard. It  is what it is. Much like WoW is the standard every Themepark MMO has been judged. Warhammer tired adding PvP everywhere and it took the focus away from one central focused area everyone PvPs. This pread the war so thin everywhere it made the PvP watered down and uneventful. Large scale battles were rare because PvP was so spread out. Having all PvP focused on one map makes for more PvP fun. You again are asking to break down the gold standard of RvR. There are so many reasons why messing with a system that worked is not worth all the great ideas people think they have here. Because many failed MMOs have proved there not. 

No hes right DAoC wasnt that popular when it came out nor was it the standard of pvp.  And funny you bring up WAR werent some Mythic guys making that.  For some reason ex mythic devs keep trying to remake DAoC. 

If you read the post you just replied to you will get my point. Yes Mythic made Warhammer. Was to be DAoC2 but they messed with the system that worked so well and it failed. Having all the PvP on one map means more PvP and more fun. Thin it out by having it everywhere like Maelwydd is asking for and you break the system just like Warhammer did.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

Saying its not does not change the fact it is. Every PvP game on every MMO forum end up being judged by the DAoC standard. It  is what it is. Much like WoW is the standard every Themepark MMO has been judged. Warhammer tired adding PvP everywhere and it took the focus away from one central focused area everyone PvPs. This spread the war so thin everywhere it made the PvP watered down and uneventful. Large scale battles were rare because PvP was so spread out. Having all PvP focused on one map makes for more PvP fun. You again are asking to break down the gold standard of RvR. There are so many reasons why messing with a system that worked is not worth all the great ideas people think they have here. Because many failed MMOs have proved there not. 

I am not asking for your precious 'DAOC gold standard' of PvP to change. Simply saying, because a lot of people don't like it and want a different experiance, either open world PvP or flagged but be able to explore theo world, and if their technology allows it, what the fuck is your problem allowing it?

Because it messes with what works. Also real TES fans that are not PvP fans wont like your idea and the same goes for PvE purists. They wont want open world PvP or the broken flagged system. So easy to trick people into being flagged. You seem to forget this game was designed for them as well. Current system lets both PvEers and PvPers to get what they want. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

If you read the post you just replied to you will get my point. Yes Mythic made Warhammer. Was to be DAoC2 but they messed with the system that worked so well and it failed. Having all the PvP on one map means more PvP and more fun. Thin it out by having it everywhere like Maelwydd is asking for and you break the system just like Warhammer did.

The only reason it would break by tinning it out is if it isn;t that popular and people don't actually enjoy it as much as other ways of having PvP designed. If you are so confident that DAOC was the gold standard was are you so scared to allow other options?

I just think you realise that, given the option of alternate ways of engaging in PvP, the alternates will be more popular. And if they are more popular then that says a lot about the idea that DAOC is the PvP gold standard and for the design being so heavily trying to replicate DOAC.

If you don't want it because you know it will not be as popular as you hope that is fine but don't try and justify an enclosed, restrictive system over an open, inclusinve system to the detriment of other people.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

If you read the post you just replied to you will get my point. Yes Mythic made Warhammer. Was to be DAoC2 but they messed with the system that worked so well and it failed. Having all the PvP on one map means more PvP and more fun. Thin it out by having it everywhere like Maelwydd is asking for and you break the system just like Warhammer did.

The only reason it would break by tinning it out is if it isn;t that popular and people don't actually enjoy it as much as other ways of having PvP designed. If you are so confident that DAOC was the gold standard was are you so scared to allow other options?

You take 10 people PvPing outside a small outpost in a PvE area, 5 people running around doing the same thing. The 25 people raiding the other factions main city and the 20 people that like to force people to flag for PvP in the newbe areas and put them all on one map and now you have some fun. Do you get that? Now its a war =)

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

Because it messes with what works. Also real TES fans that are not PvP fans wont like your idea and the same goes for PvE purists. They wont want open world PvP or the broken flagged system. So easy to trick people into being flagged. You seem to forget this game was designed for them as well. Current system lets both PvEers and PvPers to get what they want. 

[mod edit]

[mod edit] PvEers cant go everywhere but they get their own space, PvPer dont get to kill anyone they want anywhere but they get a space they get to do that in. It gives the best of both worlds and will give ESO the biggest pool of players for doing so.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

[mod edit] PvEers cant go everywhere but they get their own space, PvPer dont get to kill anyone they want anywhere but they get a space they get to do that in. It gives the best of both worlds and will give ESO the biggest pool of players for doing so.

I will repeat, if the system can allow for people with different playstyles what is your problem allowing it to happen. You have already prooved you have a hard time understanding the game design, like your elves comment, but don't be so pig headed. You can still keep your current set-up and others can play the way they want. PvE'ers who don't want to engaeg in PvP are already being forced to accept a lot of compromise as it is. We can't explore the enitre world because of locked factions. We can't create a race and freely choose the faction we wish to join. We accept that 'end game' is focused on PvP.

So why is it a problem to have your DAOC gold standard PvP and others to have an explorable world with PvP only in Cyrodil or Flagged PvP if they want it or open world PvP. So what is the problem?

Again, I think you are scared that given the option, your beloved gold standard will be unpopular.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

[mod edit] PvEers cant go everywhere but they get their own space, PvPer dont get to kill anyone they want anywhere but they get a space they get to do that in. It gives the best of both worlds and will give ESO the biggest pool of players for doing so.

Personally, I plan to wait and see whether there is any truth in that optimistic statement. Not too optimistic about it, but who knows.

Well...

I didn't need my crystal ball to know my thread would degenerate into a DAoC vs TES dogfight.

Such a shame the game is set up to spark it really, because with a better alternative, there would be a lot more people happy about the game.

You really don't see anyone significant saying that the two things cannot exist side by side - just a lot of tripe about the 'fact' 'at this late stage' it cannot be changed.

Makes you wonder if one or two people at Zenimax are thinking they should have floated this as a variant not so set in stone, or one or two other people looking at how 'late' late is in this regard.

One can go on with one's fingers crossed :).

Originally posted by Ryowulf

Matt Firor: "You said the thing that is the most important. It is the franchise that we are taking online, not the single-player game. The single-player games are still the single-player games. We're taking the license and the franchise online and doing something with it that hasn't been done before, much like the Elder Scrolls novels. But all of those concerns are valid by the community until they actually see it and play it. We've taken a lot of effort to make the lore consistent and make sure that it's the experience that they expect. The places they can go, the characters they can play and the enemies are all based very much on the world that they know, and that's where it works."

Which was taken from here http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-17-the-elder-scrolls-online-reinventing-a-franchise-in-an-online-world

 

Afterall there would be no point in the IP if you didn't want to have people would loved Skyrim buying your game.  What I did find interesting is he is telling people to wait and play the game, so don't preorder. 

Hillarious - I had forgotten reading this;

'...and make sure that it's the experience that they expect'...

... ouch - doubt he'll eat any crow though.

How can you 'reinvent' something with an eye for the expected experience and then take out one of the most important expected elements and think its fine...

... incredible...

'The places they can go,... are all based very much on the world that they know,'

Really - because I was under the impression I could go where I want within the entire games playfield on every other TES game... ever...

Ah - I'm done - plenty of traffic on this thread even though the problem is crystal clear.

I will however continue to read with interest on occassion and disbelief at times.

Originally posted by Caliburn101

It seems to me, and a lot of other people too, that TESO is not a true successor to TES

I really hope is not ... otherwise would not even bother to follow. As it stands, for sure will buy and play.

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Caliburn101

It seems to me, and a lot of other people too, that TESO is not a true successor to TES

I really hope is not ... otherwise would not even bother to follow. As it stands, for sure will buy and play.

Your logic is...bizarre!

Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

Originally posted by Maephisto

Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

What are you talking about? ESO is a standard Themepark MMO. Probably B2P with a sub.

Its is an off -shoot of The Elder Scrolls and has nothing to do with the main series of games.

Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

Originally posted by Maephisto

Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

What are you talking about? ESO is a standard Themepark MMO. Probably B2P with a sub.

Its is an off -shoot of The Elder Scrolls and has nothing to do with the main series of games.

I think he means that because we are about 2 years since Skyrim came out and 4.5 years is the average time between titles that it stands to reason in another 2 years Bethesda will come out with their own Elder Scrolls VI about a year or so after Zenimax launches TESO.

All I can say is if TESO happened to flop or even not do as well as the couple million sales that Skyrim had, it would be pretty funny to see Bethesda slap Zenimax in the face for staining their IP by introducing small 3-5 man multiplayer in Elder Scrolls VI. Even if it was only multiplayer by LANing up physically.

Originally posted by Rukushin

Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

Originally posted by Maephisto

Why do so many bitch and moan about this title.

It is a free ES game.  All ES games have an average of 4.5 years between individual releases.  We are half way through that point.  Assuming a new ES title is in the making.

What are you talking about? ESO is a standard Themepark MMO. Probably B2P with a sub.

Its is an off -shoot of The Elder Scrolls and has nothing to do with the main series of games.

I think he means that because we are about 2 years since Skyrim came out and 4.5 years is the average time between titles that it stands to reason in another 2 years Bethesda will come out with their own Elder Scrolls VI about a year or so after Zenimax launches TESO.

All I can say is if TESO happened to flop or even not do as well as the couple million sales that Skyrim had, it would be pretty funny to see Bethesda slap Zenimax in the face for staining their IP by introducing small 3-5 man multiplayer in Elder Scrolls VI. Even if it was only multiplayer by LANing up physically.

Seeing as the latest TES game(Skyrim) was basically a console game, and console sales outweighted PC sales by a huge margin, I'd be more inclined to think we will be seeing split screen play before Bethesda implements LAN support.