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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » A Diffrent way of thinking about an mmo, have no levels

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57 posts found
  Sengi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

3/03/13 6:37:38 PM#41

@ tom_gore

That’s right. UO had this no stat progression approach in a way. At least the fighting got up quite fast. And there were no specific zones for differed level requirements, and an ork was an ork and a halberd was a halberd, no level x ork and level y Halberd. And approaching an ettin alone was no good idea.

 

@ bnxbandit

Somehow there is that preconception that mmo player want dump mobs. Most mobs have an ai that is like two lines of code:

while [(player distance < aggro distance) and (player distance > striking distance)] run towards player

else while [player distance < striking distance] hit player

According to what I heard, Elder Scrolls Online will improve this.

 

@ icewhite, squeak69

The problem with the role-playing is also that the games do nothing to support it. Is there anything that makes GW2 a better place to roleplay than Call of Duty? No, in GW2 you can’t even sit in chairs. When I try to rp in a mmo, the game only gets in the way. Just open up an chat and get out your D&D player’s handbook. That works far better.

 

@ Dzone

I think what you suggesting is a levelling system, only that you loose xp over time.

There still needs to be something that traces the afford a player puts in the game. I think it’s always better to give the player something he can actually visually show of instead of a score.

  ArChWind

Elite Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 531

3/03/13 6:59:59 PM#42

Take all experience earned and use it to buy things that will give progression such as basic skills, housing,, mounts, etc...  (short term carrot)

Give alternate experience to invest in stats and advanced masteries skills  (long term carrot)

 

  Dexter2010

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/12
Posts: 153

3/03/13 7:02:27 PM#43
Originally posted by Benedikt

first of all i would probably not play it since character development is one of the main reasons i platy mmo(rpg)s.

but if i omit that, i still have to ask - what would i kill those mobs for? what would be the drive?

i can understand making mmofps w/o char progression, where you would pvp other players (tho i think "normal" multiplayer fps are better for that), but to kill mobs? i can understand making them challenging like raid mobs, but then again - i would kill each of them once and then left bored.

GW1 was exactly this and awful.

  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 530

3/03/13 7:09:36 PM#44

Sounds like a pretty horrid game idea. At least for an mmorpg. All chars are the same?

Where is the point?

  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2347

3/04/13 12:17:32 AM#45
This must be one of those ideas that people don't think through.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  User Deleted
3/04/13 12:32:07 AM#46

The problem with this is that players in MMOs demand progression. They want to get stronger. Which is why so many people hated the easy to obtain power cap in GW2.

Personally I am fine with horizontal progression, but most players will just quit if they cannot get any stronger.

  bnxbandit

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/12
Posts: 23

3/04/13 4:42:57 AM#47

Originally posted by evilastro

The problem with this is that players in MMOs demand progression. They want to get stronger. Which is why so many people hated the easy to obtain power cap in GW2.

Personally I am fine with horizontal progression, but most players will just quit if they cannot get any stronger.

There is progression and you can get stronger. Better gear and mastering the game  is progression imo although there are no levels and thus no stat increases. Any person can describe progression in many ways but leveling is just the most basic kind. 

Originally posted by Yizle

Sounds like a pretty horrid game idea. At least for an mmorpg. All chars are the same?

Where is the point?

The point is to having fun playing the game yourself or with others. Believe me it can be an MMORPG. The characters can't be all the same but there is a chance one can copy another(newbies copying pro players). If you read my post about my thoughts I said:

Character/s would assume different roles based on what kinda of skills, weapons, armor, passives, enhancements, etc. Skills don't have levels and you can swap out sets therefore changing your role.

 

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/04/13 5:24:37 AM#48
Originally posted by bnxbandit

Originally posted by Yizle

Sounds like a pretty horrid game idea. At least for an mmorpg. All chars are the same?

Where is the point?

The point is to having fun playing the game yourself or with others. Believe me it can be an MMORPG. The characters can't be all the same but there is a chance one can copy another(newbies copying pro players). If you read my post about my thoughts I said:

Character/s would assume different roles based on what kinda of skills, weapons, armor, passives, enhancements, etc. Skills don't have levels and you can swap out sets therefore changing your role.

It would be an MMO, not an MMORPG. It would most likely be rejected by the same crowd you pitched it to. ;)

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  rounner

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/06
Posts: 550

3/04/13 5:49:56 AM#49

Sounds like Chivalry Medieval Warfare with a skill card deck.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1805

3/04/13 8:22:29 AM#50
Originally posted by Squeak69
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by tom_gore

If you think about Ultima Online, it wasn't much of a chore to max out your character's skills and stats, but still people kept playing because there was so much to do and the game offered great tools for actual roleplaying. Making your own events, waging your own wars, building a village of player owned homes, etc.

All that has been reduced to level to max, raid for gear, wait for next content patch, rinse and repeat.

I used to tell people that roleplay was the secret to getting years out of a game, long after everyone else was bored and surfing the market again.

But--99% of the gaming world rejects roleplay. They outnumber me (at least) 99:1 now. My answer is not a valid answer for very many people. I get that.

Some large percentage (X) doesn't want to associate with other people, doesn't care about 'community' or any of the other things that we used to play games for. The min/maxer, two-percenter that we used to make fun of? Just about all there is in the market now.

I choose not to try point a gun at someone's head, "Play the way I say is Right (capital R)." If the industry finds it easier and cheaper to collect their dollars (as, apparently, it does) than mine...well, I'm told I post too much anyway.

i agree Roleplayning is what bring about longevity to MMOs and is often the most fun part of mMOs, but sadly most MMOs these days actually make it difficult to RP, and more often then not people dont wanna RP but POWER RP which basicly = i am all powerful and all others should fear me ( i swore off RP fighting years ago)

but on the other hand i enjoy good rp and such will chose a bad mmo with a good rp group and decent mechanics to make life easyier on a RPer then a more advanced pretty game that makes RP difficult or has no real rp community

P.S. ERP dose not = RP, i dont kick those who enjoy it but i dislike non RPers saying all RP is ERP

Indeed. There is only a handful of games that have adequate roleplaying tools available to players (UO is one, LotrO is another). The rest of them have no tools for roleplaying or building an in-game community. Ironically, even WoW has more roleplaying tools than most games that have come out in the recent years.

And I think the reason most people don't roleplay is because they have not tried it and their prejudices are telling them it's about cybering and dressing funny.

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

3/04/13 8:34:28 AM#51
Originally posted by Sengi

@ icewhite, squeak69

The problem with the role-playing is also that the games do nothing to support it...any more

Sure, easier and cheaper to slap an "RP" tag on a PVE server, then proceed to ignore everything that happens on it.

Just part of the Wonder of Minimal Customer Experience Cost that is a modern MMO theory.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1805

3/05/13 5:25:10 AM#52
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Sengi

@ icewhite, squeak69

The problem with the role-playing is also that the games do nothing to support it...any more

Sure, easier and cheaper to slap an "RP" tag on a PVE server, then proceed to ignore everything that happens on it.

Just part of the Wonder of Minimal Customer Experience Cost that is a modern MMO theory.

Or like GW2, don't even label servers as RP, because why split the community, right?

  bnxbandit

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/12
Posts: 23

3/05/13 5:36:22 AM#53
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by bnxbandit

Originally posted by Yizle

Sounds like a pretty horrid game idea. At least for an mmorpg. All chars are the same?

Where is the point?

The point is to having fun playing the game yourself or with others. Believe me it can be an MMORPG. The characters can't be all the same but there is a chance one can copy another(newbies copying pro players). If you read my post about my thoughts I said:

Character/s would assume different roles based on what kinda of skills, weapons, armor, passives, enhancements, etc. Skills don't have levels and you can swap out sets therefore changing your role.

It would be an MMO, not an MMORPG. It would most likely be rejected by the same crowd you pitched it to. ;)

 

Well most likely yes but we'll never know if we don't try. Also it has RPG in it. It's a game that lets you role play so yeah MMORPG.

  allendale5

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 125

3/05/13 12:41:56 PM#54
Actually, there arent' really levels in current games, those are mostly only numbers to incentivize the player base to continue onward. Because, as you level the mobs level and the zones level, so it is all relative .  And as we all know, if two cars are travelling side by side at the same speed, then when compared to one another, they are still.  That's the way it's always been. Sure, there are minor exceptions but in the overall grand scheme of things, we don't level compared to the content. 
  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

3/05/13 12:50:56 PM#55
Originally posted by Dzone

Basically thinking of an MMO like real life. Everyone is generally as strong as each other, but when thers a gang of peaple the'll be much stronger. A diffrent way to think about MMO's.

 Wonder how this way of thinking for an MMO design would pan out. Your thoughts?

MMO is not real life. It is a genre of entertainment products. The focus should be fun. Fun, of course, is subjective.

Previous MMOs are more group oriented, and the market has shifted to more solo-able games because of the demand. Personally, i don't really want my fun to rely on others all the time.

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2790

3/05/13 1:00:29 PM#56
The introduction of explicit levels was one of the more disliked changes in SWG during SOE's tenure of mismanagement. Prior to that, if you could kill something, great. Damage and defense were not tied to "what level you were" at the beginning, they were wholly skill and equipment based: you hit for what you hit for. Later on, after the unwanted changes, levels were EVERYTHING: the difference of just a couple levels was the difference between an even fight and a walkover. So, among the terrible structural changes done to SWG over the years, the explicit addition of levels, and making everything tied to those levels was a very large step back in terms of gameplay.
  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

3/05/13 1:03:49 PM#57

I think OP want something like GW1 but w/o lvl at all.
I guess lvl 20 was not hard to get and gave us time to get familiar with game and skills.

If no lvl at all and such group will go to dungeon, IMO, it will be a mess, as some guys in a group will be 100% newbs, lost in action, when others will get mad about and kick / leave / disband.

It what happens usually with non-balanced groups.

So I guess few lvl would be nice to have, main-time you can still run dungeons all long (how I love to develop my character to avoid quest grind).

this way you can have training for future harder challenges.

to be honest, I think quest lvling + very long one, kills grouping and, may be, whole meaning of MMO.
so why not make only dungeon (dungeon-like) progression with auto-grouping (finder) or some quests but very short and fun, f.e. for crafting or to unlock anything.

or make group quests like separate story line, non repeatable and challenging, something like original quests on-line or like runescape quests.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

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