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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Seeking Feedback: Mounts vs. Speed Buff Classes

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131 posts found
  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1134

3/04/13 6:48:36 AM#81
So, Mark, should we read anything into the fact that you are asking gameplay questions like this such as you are confident the kickstarter will succeed?

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1134

3/04/13 8:31:06 AM#82

Thinking about this more, what I think would be best is:

  • 2 speed buff classes per realm. This would make forming groups more flexible than in DAOC where each realm only had one fastest speed class.
  • Every character would get a "jog" ability that would give him permanent increased movement speed. It would only be castable out of combat and would drop if an enemy player used an ability on you. It would be faster than walking but noticeably slower than the speed class speed.
  • For instance, say normal speed is 100%. Sprinting could be 150% speed for a short duration including in combat. Jogging would be permanent 150% speed out of combat. And the speed class speed would be 200% or even 225%.
Advantages of doing it this way:
  • Don't need to spend development resources on creating horse graphics and coding.
  • No horses impacting frame rates in RvR.
  • No need for extra sources of speed such as hasteners, speed potions, etc.
 

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Brohalla

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 11

3/04/13 8:39:08 AM#83

I like the idea of having speed buff classes. Tho it would need more tweaking than using classes like in DaoC. Why would a speed buff class also have good damage output like a skald ? Much prefer the bard role for a speed buff class. Giving more classes speed would offer more flexible group making, but I kinda like the speed difference idea where speed is determined by the amount of support a character can give. This will make sure people make groups which in turn help make a community stronger.

Never liked the horses. Period ;p

_Back in DaoC!_

  Catulus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/29/05
Posts: 16

3/04/13 9:05:46 AM#84

This might be mechanically diffcult or just plain silly (i dont know), however I'm going to suggest it anyway.

What about a bolt/buck mechanic to limit horses?

Keep the movement speed the same of horses and speed buff classes but if a player is mounted and attacked  there is a percentage chance the horse will flee in panic briefly (similar to fear mechanics from gw2, wow) or 'buck' knockdown on player charcacter. this could provide a way to combat uncoordinated mounted zergs who would find at least some of their number running off and give the advantage  to organised groups who planned to allocate speed classes correctly therefore not needing mounts. soloers, crafters etc however could still move around at a decent speed just with more risk.

  Teh_Axi

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

3/04/13 9:12:05 AM#85

Mounts are cool, so they should be in the game.

Give them a health bar or something so players can't just ride off into the sunset when being attacked.

  falcuk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 41

3/04/13 9:15:08 AM#86

I like the idea of mounts, give them HP bars and let them be killed and then skinned etc :P

 

Speed buff classes is a must also, having RVR'd as a Bard for many years id love this gameplay again.

  MidHealer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/19/13
Posts: 17

3/04/13 9:20:14 AM#87

 

I support having speed classes with group speed, a la DAoC.

Now, having to have instruments equipped for speed is maybe something that could be reconsidered, since it only means carpal tunnel syndrome in making and/or encourages keyboards/programs with macro capablities. Although, I have to admit, having instruments equipped with actual purpose was really something unique for DAoC, so mark me undecided on this issue.

 

On spreading max speed ("speed 5") on multiple classes:

Watering down the capabilities on multiple classes is something happening in "modern" hand-holding MMOs, and is not really what I would like to see in CU. Having everyone have max speed, all spells, healing, etc waters down the whole thing for me. Once removed (primary/secondary xy) is enough - for example primary and secondary healer, heavy and light melee, speed 5 and speed 3 classes, heavy and light CC classes, etc - this is the way to go, in my opinion.

Having classes renowned for something they can (and other can't) is what makes classes interesting and unique. Remember Healers (CC/Healing) or Clerics (Wizards in Chainmail with Healing) Or Minstrels (Chain+Stealth+Speed+CC)? Or Rangers and Scouts (Stealth+Bow)? Or Shadowblades (Stealth + Berserker Dual-Axes)?

Now, those were the true classes I will remember for life, not this watered down everyone-can-everything-but-not-very-good crap in modern MMOs.

 

***

Mounts are, for me, more a cosmetic perk, and I would rather not see them in RvR, than having fps problems because of them.

Birger, Galahad, Healer
Midgard forever

  Plastic-Metal

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/13
Posts: 423

3/04/13 9:25:38 AM#88
Originally posted by MidHealer

 

I support having speed classes with group speed, a la DAoC.

Now, having to have instruments equipped for speed is maybe something that could be reconsidered, since it only means carpal tunnel syndrome in making and/or encourages keyboards/programs with macro capablities. Although, I have to admit, having instruments equipped with actual purpose was really something unique for DAoC, so mark me undecided on this issue.

 

On spreading max speed ("speed 5") on multiple classes:

Watering down the capabilities on multiple classes is something happening in "modern" hand-holding MMOs, and is not really what I would like to see in CU. Having everyone have max speed, all spells, healing, etc waters down the whole thing for me. Once removed (primary/secondary xy) is enough - for example primary and secondary healer, heavy and light melee, speed 5 and speed 3 classes, heavy and light CC classes, etc - this is the way to go, in my opinion.

Having classes renowned for something they can (and other can't) is what makes classes interesting and unique. Remember Healers (CC/Healing) or Clerics (Wizards in Chainmail with Healing) Or Minstrels (Chain+Stealth+Speed+CC)? Or Rangers and Scouts (Stealth+Bow)? Or Shadowblades (Stealth + Berserker Dual-Axes)?

Now, those were the true classes I will remember for life, not this watered down everyone-can-everything-but-not-very-good crap in modern MMOs.

 

***

Mounts are, for me, more a cosmetic perk, and I would rather not see them in RvR, than having fps problems because of them.

 

+1, this guy gets it

My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

  falcuk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 41

3/04/13 9:35:17 AM#89
Agree on the above also.
  Laec

Novice Member

Joined: 2/18/13
Posts: 11

3/04/13 9:39:22 AM#90
Personally I like the option of having the mount as a backup, but caster speed with endo pots on DAoC worked fine as a backup specially since we almost never had a minstrel. My biggest concern with speed classes is to make them useful in each realm so they are played in a group setting. I dont like mounted combat at all and i prefer to have a good running game vs fancy visuals and massive poly counts on my screen. Even with a killer rig i always turn down all settings to low so the game runs best in any situation
  drakon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/13
Posts: 114

3/04/13 9:50:28 AM#91
I prefer not to have mounted combat.  As long as their are alternative methods of speed for non-speed classes then I'm ok with horses being for housing/non PvP only.
  User Deleted
3/04/13 9:56:23 AM#92

 

In my humble opinion, the biggest fail of DAOC (besides expansions) was classes focused on buffing.  Buff bots were a plague.  People ran side accounts simply to have a toon buff, hide the toon, then go out and participate in combat. The issues I have are:

1. Buff Bots: there is no fun gained from their existence. People do not like playing them and if they exist they become a requirement if you want a chance to win

2. Speed Abilities: Movement speed is always the most important thing in a PvP game.  If I am faster than you and we engage in combat, either I win or I flee, barring CC.  If I am faster than you and I see you approach I can choose to engage or flee. If you are slower than me and I approach you have no options.'

I suggest that the game have buffs but do so in a mild form.  Buffs should mostly be personal.  Global or Ally-centric buffs should be rare. Even when I look at classes such as the Paladin for DAoC, i ponder how fun were they to play.  With Paladins they atleast had to be present in the fight for their buffs to be effective, but I do not see the play style being dynamic enough to play.

What I am getting at is that buffs should exist but mostly in a short term effect, when they affect multiple allies or enemies, Long term buffs should be self only or a specialized mechanic such as: I cast Blessing on myself which converts 5% of the damage I deal to an aoe heal targeted at myself. Buffs like: Potency gives +20 strength for 1 hour, simply do not belong.  If I am a mage and I cast an Intelligence buff on myself, isnt this redundant. I am a mage, intelligence is my focus, I spend statistics and get items which increase intelligence, so why do I need a buff that increases it when the Intelligence I need can simply be built into the class.  Is there some kind of "oh shit I have a buff in my buff bar that everyone can see" epeen that people want stroked? Is it just fodder for the buff removal class? Maybe I just dont get it...

"1) I think that CU needs to have support classes that have speed buffs. They were obviously very popular in Dark Age and in other games. I would definitely like to see them implemented in CU and currently, they do have a slot in the launch classes."

 I think that you mistake popular with necessary.  If you create something and you give it power, people will flock to it regardless if its fun.  If you created a magic circle that if you stand in for 6 hours and it will guarantee victory for the next hour, you will have a mosh pit on your hands...

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

3/04/13 10:05:25 AM#93

Why not just make mounts a thing for crafters only? Give crafters ability to chain a caravan and maybe added protection with increased speed to get to locations needed in RvR zones. Have stables at the border keeps and allow them to be able to build a stables quickly so when they arrive at their location they can build a stables and dock their horses.

 

Please keep them away from RvR players though, that's all I ask :)

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  Casca9226

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 26

3/04/13 11:28:02 AM#94
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

Why not just make mounts a thing for crafters only? Give crafters ability to chain a caravan and maybe added protection with increased speed to get to locations needed in RvR zones. Have stables at the border keeps and allow them to be able to build a stables quickly so when they arrive at their location they can build a stables and dock their horses.

 

Please keep them away from RvR players though, that's all I ask :)

thats actually a good idea. I do like the thought of mounts and SBC's. Didnt bother me that the horse went poof when you got attacked. I think having both would be good.

  SyrixII

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 43

3/04/13 11:59:12 AM#95
Originally posted by Casca9226
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

Why not just make mounts a thing for crafters only? Give crafters ability to chain a caravan and maybe added protection with increased speed to get to locations needed in RvR zones. Have stables at the border keeps and allow them to be able to build a stables quickly so when they arrive at their location they can build a stables and dock their horses.

 

Please keep them away from RvR players though, that's all I ask :)

thats actually a good idea. I do like the thought of mounts and SBC's. Didnt bother me that the horse went poof when you got attacked. I think having both would be good.

I have to ask though... Do you add mounts just for the sake of adding them? Or is there is reason they need to be added? The only reason to add them can easily be accounted for with SBC. I guess you could say the reason is so that non-SBC can have speed when they are solo. However, if you take that approch, then why shouldn't every class all have the same skills because others have it too... My point is, What is adding mounts into the mix bringing to the table that justifies doing it? I just don't see a whole lot there.

This would be a different story if they were bringing mounted combat with it though, but they're not. So I just don't see the need.

  Niix_Ozek

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/13
Posts: 404

3/04/13 12:29:28 PM#96

Well exactly, but from my understanding if you make a crafting class you won't really be able to pvp? Correct me if i'm wrong, but they are pure crafting classes. Would provide RP and realism to the crafters who are the players that really love that stuff so why not allow them to carry materials via donkey mounts and allow them to collaborate caravans.

This shouldn't effect PVP and RVR players at all as they would be religated to SBC or run speed / sprint.

Adding mounts in DAOC was done because people complained their <insert non SBC> didn't run fast, which contradicts the purpose and statements made by Mark ( from my understanding ).

Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked

  akley

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/11
Posts: 17

3/04/13 1:07:45 PM#97
Originally posted by tlear
No mounts please

1. The whole *poof* disappeared mechanic is just lame
2. Even out of combat they add poly counts
3. Unkillable

If you want to have them for carrying stuff like siege or components why not add pack horses, mules donkeys? These would have to stabled, could be killed or even captured, would not just disappear.

^^ This guy said it perfectly.

 

Please, please no mounts. The only thing said about this game thus far that made me cringe was mounts. Even in small amounts it takes away from pvp and speed classes. Please god don't waste time on mounts.

  fanglo

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 280

3/04/13 1:15:49 PM#98
Originally posted by SyrixII
Originally posted by Casca9226
Originally posted by Niix_Ozek

Why not just make mounts a thing for crafters only? Give crafters ability to chain a caravan and maybe added protection with increased speed to get to locations needed in RvR zones. Have stables at the border keeps and allow them to be able to build a stables quickly so when they arrive at their location they can build a stables and dock their horses.

 

Please keep them away from RvR players though, that's all I ask :)

thats actually a good idea. I do like the thought of mounts and SBC's. Didnt bother me that the horse went poof when you got attacked. I think having both would be good.

I have to ask though... Do you add mounts just for the sake of adding them? Or is there is reason they need to be added? The only reason to add them can easily be accounted for with SBC. I guess you could say the reason is so that non-SBC can have speed when they are solo. However, if you take that approch, then why shouldn't every class all have the same skills because others have it too... My point is, What is adding mounts into the mix bringing to the table that justifies doing it? I just don't see a whole lot there.

This would be a different story if they were bringing mounted combat with it though, but they're not. So I just don't see the need.

The main reason for mounts for crafters is to target the crafter give them speed and extra storage space. As I posted earlier if mounts meant increased supply then if an enemy saw someone on a mount they could assume that person had a ton of supplies on them, be it seige equipment or harvesting resources. Either way if there was an ability to steal those resources from the player by killing the horse, then it would be awesome.

I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

3/04/13 1:51:27 PM#99

You know if the game was using Central Asia as a setting and focused on mounted combat with bows, lances etc. It would be AWESOME. But this is not that game.. :)

If you want to have pack animals sure that would be cool, but make them killable and capturable. Otherwise add a jog skill to everyone that gives you speed boost out of combat and SPCs give more speed then that. Boom done. Next feature. Do not waste time building modes, animation etc for riding horses and such where you are not actually not riding anything but just using out of comabt speed buff.

  Stiler

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 599

3/04/13 1:54:04 PM#100

Mounts can add more to the game depending on how they are done.

What about making mounts not "Summonable" rather have them work more like UO? Where you got mounts by either taming them or buying them from a stable? (You could ti ehte RVR reward mounts into this, and have those types of mounts become buyable at a stable once you unlock them). Of coures the gold has to be adjusted to buy mounts, it can't be like WoW and other more modern mmo's where mounts are a gigantic money sink, because people will lose them and thus the gold needs to cost less to account for this.

Allow mounts to be lost/killable, which can lead to other aspects of strategy and tactics for the RVR and overall gameplay.

You can have the mounts which carry siege equipment, and obviously their speed would be limited, and thus vunerable to attack at this time. If someone comes across a group of people who's using mounts to take siege equipment somewhere it would make for a nice strategic target, knowing that if oyu take them out now you will be helping someone somewhere else because obviousl they had plans to siege a structure somewhere.

For mounts that haul resources it's the same thing, you could even allow people to capture the mount carrying supplies (or if they kill it even) the ability to loot all the supplies on it.

In order to make mounts useful/needed for carrying resoruces and things, they should weigh quite a bit (so people can't just toss them in their backpack if they see an eneemy coming, etc) as well as to give mounts a reasl reason to be used in that regard.

 

If horses are summoned then  You can have it work similar to how Assassin's creed 3 did, where you whistle and the horse comes running at you from a distance, so it doesn't look "magical" and logically might make sense. Gives it kind of a Zorro/Lone Ranger vibe.

 

 

 

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