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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Identity Crisis

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475 posts found
  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

3/02/13 6:20:25 AM#141
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Caliburn101
 

I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.

Are you REALLY saying otherwise?

If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.

Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.

"self evident blah, blah... forced blah blah... erased...blah, blah"

All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.

There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.

It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.

You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.

'blah, blah'

'whining'

Quite apart from your 'automated' and factually thin opposition to everything I say, on every thread I say it - which is fine I suppose, in a rather 'e-stalker' sort of way...

... could you at least stop trying to insult me with childish characterisations of what I am saying.

I would like to keep the duscussion to the arguments and not the individuals if you can manage that.

Thank you...

Oh and a belated and heartfelt thanks for helping to keep my thread top of the board - much appreciated...

Oh you're very welcome. I'm happy to keep it front and center so that we may all get to know the way you think better.

After your personal comments about me, your contribution to the "discussion of the argument" in your post was what exactly?

My harsh criticism of what you post is focused, you're just all over the place... are you going to prove what you asked the previous poster to disprove or not?

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

 
OP  3/02/13 7:07:30 AM#142
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Caliburn101
 

I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.

Are you REALLY saying otherwise?

If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.

Why should anyone have to prove anything when you have proven nothing? All you're doing is repeating your exagerations over and over. Repetitive nonsense using loaded language does not make it so.

"self evident blah, blah... forced blah blah... erased...blah, blah"

All that you or anyone else knows for sure is that TESO will have 3-sided RvR similar to GW2 and DAoC and that a developer who used to work on DAoC is developing this...and so is guy who used to work on Ultima and god knows who else who used to work wherever.

There is no evidence that this RvR will even play like DAoC's-- just suppositions on your part since none of us have played it.

It's just you and a couple of others who keep inserting yourselves into every thread in this forum whining about TESO not being Skyrim-like (Darkfall is btw....go play that.) People have spent 6 years developing TESO in a way other than how you would do it. Get over it.

You're just adding to the irelevant noise in this forum providing evidence of nothing...because you can't.

'blah, blah'

'whining'

Quite apart from your 'automated' and factually thin opposition to everything I say, on every thread I say it - which is fine I suppose, in a rather 'e-stalker' sort of way...

... could you at least stop trying to insult me with childish characterisations of what I am saying.

I would like to keep the duscussion to the arguments and not the individuals if you can manage that.

Thank you...

Oh and a belated and heartfelt thanks for helping to keep my thread top of the board - much appreciated...

Oh you're very welcome. I'm happy to keep it front and center so that we may all get to know the way you think better.

After your personal comments about me, your contribution to the "discussion of the argument" in your post was what exactly?

My harsh criticism of what you post is focused, you're just all over the place... are you going to prove what you asked the previous poster to disprove or not?

I've addressed your approach to debate on another thread also.

I see you aren't interested in characterising your own position as I asked you to.

Far easier to criticise mine without stating what your own is so it can be inspected abd critiqued in return huh?

This makes any further discourse with you utterly pointless - so flail away on your own - my ignore list is short, but well chosen.

  Vossik

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/12
Posts: 25

3/02/13 7:39:38 AM#143

Some of you are labeling and doubting simply because they're using elements that have been used in previous games. That's not really sound logic. Would you prefer they use nothing thats ever been used in a previous mmo? Seriously? Yes, they are using some game designs that have proven successful in previous games. That does not mean they are going to be implemented, or make TESO just like those previous games. You have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA how this game will be, regardless of what they've told you.

At this point, you're not going to get Zenimax to go back and re-do major game designs 6 years into development, so you just sound like petulant children. Please, show some maturity, and DO NOT create threads or contribute in whining about a game BEFORE BETA HAS EVEN STARTED. This nonsense has made the mmo community so terrible. 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18996

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/02/13 9:55:39 AM#144
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Caliburn101
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Caliburn101

Interesting to see if the poll results in favour of the current game model will fall as low as 1/4.

It seems in steady decline as respondent number increase, and the last option is now in the ascendant.

This poll is all about perception.

One wonders if this is the kind of perception Zenimax wanted to engender?

 

Don't put to much stock in the poll results. The options are poorly constructed and biased in their phrasing so the last option is the only one that is even somewhat correct, hence it is coming out on top.

 

You see how from the opposing argument the idea that DAoC, faction lock et al hasn't occurred, seems absolutely ridiculous.

I take it to be self-evident (as do a great many other people - on both sides of the argument) that DAoC design choices have been forced into the mix and important TES elements have been erased from the game due to the way they have intergrated it. It is as clear as the nose on my face.

Are you REALLY saying otherwise?

If so - prove it please - I would very much like to see you try.

I wasn't trying to prove anything other than you created a flawed/biased poll and were drawing inaccurate conclusions from the results. (which btw I notice you didn't respond to and instead shifted the discussion in another direction)

As to the part I just highlighted all I can say is near as I can tell almost everyone agrees with that and there were quotes posted on these forums yesterday from the lead Developer who not only confirmed he wasn't making a Skyrim successor but rather a standard MMORPG (with strong DAOC RVR elements) using the TES IP

I think most people are actually agreeing with you, so you're really banging the drum for no reason.

The only real thing up for discussion is your opinion that this is a bad thing.  For some folks it is, for others not so much, just the way it goes I'm afraid.

 

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Crynswind

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/10
Posts: 307

3/02/13 10:12:45 AM#145

I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.

 

Why would anyone want to buy his next game?

 

 

It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3778

3/02/13 10:47:26 AM#146
Originally posted by Crynswind

I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.

 

Why would anyone want to buy his next game?

 

 

It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.

I know eh? That's why I think doctors should lose their license if one of their patients dies.

 

PS... Matt was still working for wassisname at the time... I'd be cautious about an MJ game. Matt? I don't know which chunks of WAR and/or DAoC he was responsible for. MJ had final responsibility for them both.

  Vossik

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/12
Posts: 25

3/02/13 11:39:53 AM#147
Originally posted by Crynswind

I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.

 

Why would anyone want to buy his next game?

 

 

It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.

I had a ton of fun in WAR. If they had fixed specific problems instead of ignoring them, I think it would've been way more successful.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

3/02/13 3:49:02 PM#148
Originally posted by Crynswind

I don't get the hype, Matt Frior was responsible for one of the worst MMORPGs ever released, WAR online.

 

Why would anyone want to buy his next game?

 

 

It's like the people who actually think that Neverwinter, developed by Cryptic, isn't going to be terrible in almost every way.

 

Funny thing you bring out there. Warhammer tried to pull away from the DAoC winning method. Many are asking for PvP to be everywhere not this 4 maps DAoC system but Matt brought war everywhere to Warhammer. Pockets of war no matter where you went with the ability to push the war right to the other faction’s main city and raid it. Sounded awesome till you played it.

The war was so spread out players would almost always go for the easy kill. Hopping map to map taking keeps without sticking around. It was less and less like faction vs faction war then they planned. Sometimes you give players to much freedom you wreck the game.

Matt Frior has learned his lesion buy the looks of this current design. Back to what works best. Focusing the war to one map means more opportunities for faction vs. faction vs. faction battles and that means more fun. You are all bashing ESO for shooting for the gold standard of PvP lol. Evey PvP game that has come out since DAoC has been judged by the DAoC standard. They are trying to give us the best PvP you can have and you are all bashing them for it. Sad and I really hope they stick to their guns and show you how wrong you all are. If they pull this off and the rest of the game is above average it will shine like a jewel. 

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

3/02/13 4:02:02 PM#149
So if people could explore the world but PvP only aloud in Cyrodil that would be ok?
  Catibrie

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 22

3/02/13 4:09:15 PM#150
Originally posted by Maelwydd
So if people could explore the world but PvP only aloud in Cyrodil that would be ok?

No thanks

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3431

3/02/13 4:10:59 PM#151
Originally posted by Maelwydd
So if people could explore the world but PvP only aloud in Cyrodil that would be ok?

 

Then you would take away the depth the quest, story and dungeons could have when they are designed just for your faction. It will drive faction pride like it did in DAoC. Think about a zone thats designed for your faction. Every quest, story and dungeon designed around the lore and the war you are in. Each NPC is affected by this war. From the worried mother that gives you a quest to find her son that did not come back from a battle. To the orphan you help who lost her family in a dark elf attack. 

Make the zones generic and for all factions the impact of faction pride is not as great. I get we lose the abilty to see all areas on one char but we gain a lot more in story and quests that will drive faction pride. I know you give up some freedom to go anywhere but what you gain in faction pride and much deeper PVP experence makes it all worth while. Unless you played DAoC to its full you just wont get it. You just have to understand this is the gold standard every PvP game has been judged by since DAoC came out. No one has done it better.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

3/02/13 4:23:30 PM#152

I probably won't get it then because I played TES games not DAOC.

Basically the designers are hoping that the couple of hundred thousand DOAC fans pitted against the couple of million TES fans is going to win through. Mighty big gamble for a system that didn't need to be so restrictive.

But tell me this, if all this is to cultivate faction pride why do the developers justify not having an explorable world to just create alts. Which is it? Do thy want us to fight for one faction and have pride in it or create alts?

You see, I can have faction pride while exploring the entire world. Quests and story will not do that, my choice of character does that. And fation pride will certainly not come from being forced to create alts to explore the whole world.

And how can you claim faction pride is such a big thing when you are FORCED into a faction if you want to play a certain race. I don't want to fight for the DC but I want to make a Breton. So I either play for a faction I don't want to play for or a race I don't want to play. Either way I am a reluctant member of the faction or race.

For me faction pride comes from CHOOSING the faction not being FORCED into choosing.

As for the whole quest and story giving faction pride...well I will never see anyone else unles I go to Cyrodil so what is there to be proud of? Why not have an explorable world and if you really, really want to have faction pride quests, have some near other faction lands and have them involve the other factions by having resuce missings, attack missing, information gathering missions.

 

 

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

3/02/13 4:28:43 PM#153
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
 

Then you would take away the depth the quest, story and dungeons could have when they are designed just for your faction. It will drive faction pride like it did in DAoC.

Just to focus on this part...

What is stopping these fame quests being located around the explorable world? What would be stopping these quests being only available to your faction but elsewhere in the world other then your own lands? Where the quests are located doesn't affect faction pride, what you do on the quest does.

So again exactly why resctrict exploration of the world?

Because all that is left to me is being unable to talk to people outside your faction outside your faction lands and not seeing other factions wandering around. Chat can be restrcited so that isn't an issue or a reason to restrict exploration. And outside Cyrodil you cannot PvP and could hide faction aliegence too.

So what is left?

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

3/02/13 4:34:33 PM#154

Poll highly scewed by far too many DaoC fans on this site.

The only way to get a PURE poll is to got to a TES fansite where there are nothing but TES fans, even if they are also DaoC fans...here, you end up with more DaoC fans that dont play TES at all and dont give an eff as long as they get something close to the same crap they played 12 years ago.

Pure TES fans are far more pissed off and can be plainly seen on the offical TES forums as well as the mod sites.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  aylwynn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/13
Posts: 95

3/02/13 4:46:27 PM#155
Originally posted by jtcgs

Poll highly scewed by far too many DaoC fans on this site.

The only way to get a PURE poll is to got to a TES fansite where there are nothing but TES fans, even if they are also DaoC fans...here, you end up with more DaoC fans that dont play TES at all and dont give an eff as long as they get something close to the same crap they played 12 years ago.

Pure TES fans are far more pissed off and can be plainly seen on the offical TES forums as well as the mod sites.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ

Dear, its sweet to see that you just want to see a poll where 100% just voted up the same/your opinion, right?

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

3/02/13 5:03:45 PM#156
Originally posted by aylwynn

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVCtkzIXYzQ

Dear, its sweet to see that you just want to see a poll where 100% just voted up the same/your opinion, right?

LOL Did you search the web for this or do you have it bookmarked?

While I don't think polls here or on TES sites are really going to reflect accurately the overall opinions I will say that reading other sites, not just this site, these arguments and problems with the design are everywhere. There is, at the very least, a problem even if it isn't one that will be addressed. The problem being that their design was ment to bring MMO players and TES players together on common ground and all it seems to be doing is polorizing them.

  walltar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 60

3/02/13 5:48:41 PM#157
Originally posted by jtcgs

Poll highly scewed by far too many DaoC fans on this site.

The only way to get a PURE poll is to got to a TES fansite where there are nothing but TES fans, even if they are also DaoC fans...here, you end up with more DaoC fans that dont play TES at all and dont give an eff as long as they get something close to the same crap they played 12 years ago.

Pure TES fans are far more pissed off and can be plainly seen on the offical TES forums as well as the mod sites.

So do you have TES tattooed on your butt cheek? I am fan of TES, never played DAoC but i like the way they are going ... but well i don't have my butt cheek tattoo so i am not pure enough fan.

By the way did you have to give blowjob to Todd Howard to get your "Pure TES fan" stamp?

Well i hope that "pure" TES fans won't buy thig game ... because judging by you they are bunch of morons.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

3/02/13 7:06:15 PM#158
Originally posted by walltar
 

Well i hope that "pure" TES fans won't buy thig game ... because judging by you they are bunch of morons.

Funny, it seems the developers also have this viewpoint which is why so many are not happy about the game. Still, at least the developers did their market research, about as good a job as their design concept right!

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

3/02/13 7:12:00 PM#159
people need to stop trying to compare this DAoC and judge on it's own merits.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

3/02/13 7:49:41 PM#160
Originally posted by muffins89
people need to stop trying to compare this DAoC and judge on it's own merits.

Well given the info release so far I have...and it falls short in many ways. The reason people are using DAOC to compare is because you have to be blind to not see that the design for DAOC has been copy/pasted here.

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