I think instant gratification is what made not only MMORPGs more popular, but almost all video games in general. When you eat a pellet in Pac-Man, you are getting feedback that tells you that you are doing the right thing. This feedback can be found in almost every video game in existence.

Just because it took a long time to get to max level in, say, EQ1, it doesn't mean things weren't constantly instantly gratifying people. Gear drops and xp ticks were always there in MMMORPGs giving the player instant gratification. The only thing they've done is expanded the amount of times per second and the magnitude of instant gratification feedback.  Without expanding that, people would presumably lose interest (or have less interest) in the current market of games.

Instant gratification is a cornerstone of MMORPGs, not the current downfall of them. Actually, MMORPGs are doing better today than they ever have in history. So while I understand your personal opinion is that you would like less instant gratification-like systems, it's fairly obvious that most people don't.

I treat mmo's like single player games these days; I'll get a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of casual play out of it then I will quit.  I don't even need to speak to anyone if I choose not to.  Even hitting cap isn't really target for me anymore, I'll just play until I get bored which often happens long before cap in recent mmo's despite (or perhaps because of) their simplicity. 

GW2 for example, I lasted until about 50 then I had just had enough, gameplay was overwhelmingly dull. 

Back in the early noughties I could play for months on end because the mmo's were simply more fun.  I actually got a sense of acheivement from levelling up.  

Originally posted by MagicBob

I treat mmo's like single player games these days; I'll get a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of casual play out of it then I will quit.  I don't even need to speak to anyone if I choose not to.  Even hitting cap isn't really target for me anymore, I'll just play until I get bored which often happens long before cap in recent mmo's despite (or perhaps because of) their simplicity. 

GW2 for example, I lasted until about 50 then I had just had enough, gameplay was overwhelmingly dull. 

Back in the early noughties I could play for months on end because the mmo's were simply more fun.  I actually got a sense of acheivement from levelling up.  

Do you think that's because you are older and realize those level-ups are as pointless as everything else? Do you still get a sense of accomplishment from leveling up in extremely grindy games where you have to kill mobs over and over again?

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by MagicBob

I treat mmo's like single player games these days; I'll get a couple of weeks, perhaps a month of casual play out of it then I will quit.  I don't even need to speak to anyone if I choose not to.  Even hitting cap isn't really target for me anymore, I'll just play until I get bored which often happens long before cap in recent mmo's despite (or perhaps because of) their simplicity. 

GW2 for example, I lasted until about 50 then I had just had enough, gameplay was overwhelmingly dull. 

Back in the early noughties I could play for months on end because the mmo's were simply more fun.  I actually got a sense of acheivement from levelling up.  

Do you think that's because you are older and realize those level-ups are as pointless as everything else? Do you still get a sense of accomplishment from leveling up in extremely grindy games where you have to kill mobs over and over again?

It could be.  But no, I think it is because all mmo's have been turned to 'easy-mode' by default.  

[mod edit]

Funny, I loved FFXI as a kid, and loved it just as much when I went back to it again last year, so clearly what you're saying is a load of crap.

It has nothing to do with me or anyone else growing up that I dislike modern MMOs, it's that the more recent releases are plain awful compared to the older ones, which are STILL enjoyable now despite the dated graphics and clunky interfaces. Older games made you feel like you were making an effort to get a reward; modern ones reward you for practically anything. It's a night and day difference and has nothing to do with the tired 'nostalgia' argument that your kind love to spout everywhere.

We would like just ONE modern release in the vein of the older games with more challenging systems. With a sea of mindless instant gratification MMOs saturating the industry now it would not be selfish to desire just one game to be different.

Originally posted by Popori

MMOs are working as intended. 

When 80% of your target market has an attention span of a couple months, why plan further out than that?  Give them their shinies, show them the carrot, and get to work on MMO2.0 so they've got somewhere to go by Summer.  Pop out an expansion every ## months that resets the shiny count and freshens that carrot.

The sad sacks stuck in the lurch are the niche gamers of yester-year..too devoted to quit the genre, just ornery enough to wave their canes in protest.

Reason why most of there attention span is a couple of month because after the first month they done everything and get bored

Originally posted by VikingGamer

"Do you think instant gratification is ruining MMORPGs?"

No, I think that people who think every game should be built to their own personal preferences are ruining MMORPGs.

ding ding ding    We have a winner!

Came pretty early, too.

Originally posted by Dzone
some ppl just dont wanna change. If they actually made an old-school MMO again, that company would have the monopoly on it.

Well, at least until said company wanted to do its first big expansion/update, anyway. Doesn't fix the problem, just resets it and starts again.

Or have you never heard an old school player complain about how wonderful (title X) was, right up until (expansion Y), in the same paragraph? No matter how much we kick our feet and demand mom to come and fix it, time just refuses to stand still. And we never recover how cool that toy was, even when we buy it in its original box at a hundred times its original price.

How come MMO companies rarely (never?) retain their "cool" factor, with players, for a second title?

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Dzone
some ppl just dont wanna change. If they actually made an old-school MMO again, that company would have the monopoly on it.

Well, at least until said company wanted to do its first big expansion/update, anyway. Doesn't fix the problem, just resets it and starts again.

Or have you never heard an old school player complain about how wonderful (title X) was, right up until (expansion Y), in the same paragraph? No matter how much we kick our feet and demand mom to come and fix it, time just refuses to stand still. And we never recover how cool that toy was, even when we buy it in its original box.

One of my personal favorites. It hit a couple of notes that resonated.

You guys dont get the big picture- thats why you make those pointles threads in a 7day cycle.

Grind= Luxury

You cannot afford Grind in a high developed world because it takes time- and by todays standard its jsut DUMB. Your wasting your human ressource on something you dont get back. 

Instant gratification= modern way, adapted to a high develope country.

And yes if you still dont get the picture:

high developed country= lots of people with bachelor degree and higher education standard.

Thats why grind=waste of time=dumb

And not just DUMB- its the DUMBEST thing you can do in a mmorpg.

oh and if still you guys dont know: CHINA ONLY GOT f2P GAMES BECAUSE ALL OTHER PLATFORMS WERE FORBIDDEN BY LAW!!!!!

Overwhelming result as expected. This has been known for ages but people keep buying and defending shitty, fast leveling, no challenge, brainless, themepark games on this site.

Not only that, the same people buy into the whole GW2, ESO, Chamelot Unchained and  FFXIV marketing machine and hope they get a good game. Then comes release and all the fancy talk turns out to be just lies. Dare i remember anyone about this little gem here: The GW2 Maifesto (LMAO)

You will never get a good game if you keep buying all them shit games in the first place.

Stop buying bad games and pre-order on empty promises.

Originally posted by taus01

 

Overwhelming result as expected. This has been known for ages but people keep buying and defending shitty, fast leveling, no challenge, brainless, themepark games on this site.

Not only that, the same people buy into the whole GW2, ESO, Chamelot Unchained and  FFXIV marketing machine and hope they get a good game. Then comes release and all the fancy talk turns out to be just lies. Dare i remember anyone about this little gem here: The GW2 Maifesto (LMAO)

You will never get a good game if you keep buying all them shit games in the first place.

Stop buying bad games and pre-order on empty promises.

What game do you play? Or are you one of those posters that doesn't actually currently play any game?

Originally posted by exile01

You guys dont get the big picture- thats why you make those pointles threads in a 7day cycle.

Grind= Luxury

You cannot afford Grind in a high developed world because it takes time- and by todays standard its jsut DUMB. Your wasting your human ressource on something you dont get back. 

Instant gratification= modern way, adapted to a high develope country.

 And yes if you still dont get the picture:

high developed country= lots of people with bachelor degree and higher education standard.

Thats why grind=waste of time=dumb

And not just DUMB- its the DUMBEST thing you can do in a mmorpg.

 

Nevermind, this is just not worth a reply. Deleted!

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by taus01

Stop buying bad games and pre-order on empty promises.

What game do you play? Or are you one of those posters that doesn't actually currently play any game?

Cyberpunk 2077? Kickstarter project. Which seems..a little..contrary to the sermon he just delivered.

"The developers said that it won't be ready until 2015 at the earliest because of their other projects."

Originally posted by exile01

You guys dont get the big picture- thats why you make those pointles threads in a 7day cycle.

Grind= Luxury

You cannot afford Grind in a high developed world because it takes time- and by todays standard its jsut DUMB. Your wasting your human ressource on something you dont get back. 

Instant gratification= modern way, adapted to a high develope country.

 

And yes if you still dont get the picture:

high developed country= lots of people with bachelor degree and higher education standard.

Thats why grind=waste of time=dumb

And not just DUMB- its the DUMBEST thing you can do in a mmorpg.

 

oh and if still you guys dont know: CHINA ONLY GOT f2P GAMES BECAUSE ALL OTHER PLATFORMS WERE FORBIDDEN BY LAW!!!!!

Ummm part in orange is realy a contradiction of the rest of the post.

High developed companies has lots of degrees and stuff because they Grinded out there studies and passed the course. They didnt just get instant gratification and got those degree handed to them. I also bet one they earned those degree they felt pritty proud of getting them if they were just given to them its is meaningless. Was earning those degrees a wast of time??? No they wernt and its the same in a RPG. Does earning that item or a level in game make you feel good about it, yes it does. Does being given free items and loot make you feel good about it, no it doesnt.

A MMORPG is just that your playing a roll in a world just like your doing in real life then why should it be any different than Real life appart from a different game setting. Most people want to have the good feeling of earning something rather than just being handed it to them on a silver platter because if they were just handed it for doing nothing it carrys no meaning.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

What happened is that human nature took over.

Humans will almost invariably choose the path of least reisistance to any goal.  The early MMO's were excruciatingly difficult, even though they were highly rewarding.  Then along came a game that took players by the hand, guided them from point to point, delivered content in neat and tidy packages, removed the difficult part, and rewarded people basically for showing up.  It exploded in popularity.

Now other gaming companies see this and they thing to themselves "Well shit, we've been too hard on the players, they really just want an easy game with easily definable goals".  Which is true.  Nine million people are still playing the game that hands everything except the hardest content to you on a platter.

When it comes down to it, those of us who want a return to a harsher game that doesn't hold our hands are in the minority.  Any game that goes this route from now on, such as EVE Online (and let me tell you even EVE has been dumbed way way way down from launch) will have only a niche player market.  Gaming companies don't typically design for the niche.  They design for the masses and human nature dictates that the masses want instant gratification.

I hate to get all logical and stuff..........but this is exactly spot on.   99 percent of all MMO's these days are being designed with 10 million subs in mind.  All these devs are trying to hit the lottery, and the only way to do it is to follow the model that has done it.  Your not hitting 10 million subs with the worlds harderst MMO online.

i never missed the unreachable lvl caps, actually i hated them .. or better i would like to not be any level only for your skills like in EVE

also i hate this lvl locked items this is just sick i prefer penalties if you havent mastered to wear heavy armor with a skin from a slayered dragon than this stupid mechanic of levels, it was good for super mario, but in D&D how many lvls are there ? usually the parties i saw were around 5 lvl ...

Originally posted by sanshi44

High developed companies has lots of degrees and stuff because they Grinded out there studies and passed the course.

Grinded out their college loans, which remain unpaid for most of a decade...

Sorry, it is a silly and irrelevant argument from either side.

Originally posted by taus01

 

Overwhelming result as expected. This has been known for ages but people keep buying and defending shitty, fast leveling, no challenge, brainless, themepark games on this site.

Not only that, the same people buy into the whole GW2, ESO, Chamelot Unchained and  FFXIV marketing machine and hope they get a good game. Then comes release and all the fancy talk turns out to be just lies. Dare i remember anyone about this little gem here: The GW2 Maifesto (LMAO)

You will never get a good game if you keep buying all them shit games in the first place.

Stop buying bad games and pre-order on empty promises.

Its not that easy just to not buy the games for most people, They get unhappy with there game so they try and find a new one however there nothing new on the marker so they buy something that may look good to tie them over for something gfood and different and this is unfortuently gonna be an endless loop until Dev make somthing different.