power is the ability to get someone to do what they would otherwise not do

my question to the mmorpg community is, when you play a game... do you want power? even though you suck at a game, if you put in enough time do you want to have power over someone that's newer? do you feel like the voice of a veteren player is superior to a new player?

it's really interesting to me how people put in hundreds of hours into a game to be the best, but it's just superficially being the best, and people are willing to pay real money to skip ahead of the grind and hit this all powerful carrot that is dangled infront of them from the start.

and then there's games that are pure skill, like league of legends, chess, counter strike, quake, or minecraft (a different kind of skill for minecraft). even if the person who pumped in the most hours to these games and were to start over from scratch with a new account, he would kick ass because he's genuinely good at the game. league of legends you're actually getting better instead of superficially being able to hit a higher number witth your purple gear and shiny skills (runes and masteries do allow this superficialness to an extent, but are reasonable for everyone to get without paying real money).

i guess i'll start off the conversation. i do want power, i want to be able to go into a niche community as just some guy, and then genuinely get better than everybody else. i hate when i go into a game that's already been established, and the people who have been there from day 1 are superficially better than me. maybe that's why kickstarter mmorpg's are going so well, because people want to be that guy who can be all nostalgic and say he's been there from the start, and have power over any future players who join the game... say... 3 months after release. 

i do like mmofps games, but not ones with superficial power

a new player in darkfall or mortal online has no chance against the person who has pumped in the most hours to the game, BUT once you get to the max level (the carrot) then it's a whole lot of fun to circle jerk with all the other max levels and see who's the best

but then at that point... why even make it have progression? why not plop everybody into the game as the max level? so that you feel invested in your character and pay money to skip ahead to the carrot.

I guess your response is just really unthoughtful

I... want... POWER!

Actually, I prefer my PvP on a level playing field.

I have no interest in being 'better' than anyone, which is basically what you translate 'power' to mean. I just play MMOs for the sense of progress and investment in a virtual avatar of myself.

Where you would probably love an instant-gratifcation style MMO for allowing you to progress quickly and satisfy your urge to belittle others I would find it incredibly unsatisfying as I would not feel like I was accomplishing anything if the progress and rewards came too easily...

Don't kid yourself. Everyone wants power. It is in our nature. Some people can't attain it and therefore have to hold the illusion that they are 'above' that. It is the harsh truth that we want to dominate the other, to let them serve.

Whether this principle also holds for MMO's, I'll leave that up to you.

Originally posted by vgamer

Don't kid yourself. Everyone wants power. It is in our nature. Some people can't attain it and therefore have to hold the illusion that they are 'above' that. It is the harsh truth that we want to dominate the other, to let them serve.

Whether this principle also holds for MMO's, I'll leave that up to you.

ahah i love it, so much truth in your post

i notice so many carebears who are unskilled at video games in general that can't be the best in the game or have power over anyone superficially and declare the game crap

You're probably right that Im inferior to you and you're probably some kind of genious that deserves the praise you so desperately need...

I notice not once have you mentioned team work tho.

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Originally posted by zeme111
i do want power, i want to be able to go into a niche community as just some guy, and then genuinely get better than everybody else. i hate when i go into a game that's already been established, and the people who have been there from day 1 are superficially better than me. maybe that's why kickstarter mmorpg's are going so well, because people want to be that guy who can be all nostalgic and say he's been there from the start, and have power over any future players who join the game... say... 3 months after release. 

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I don't want power over someone else, I want PVE power over mobs though, since.....that's how I survive. I don't care about having more power than others in PVE, I just set goals on my own and guild goals, I don't really mind what power others have.

Originally posted by vgamer

Don't kid yourself. Everyone wants power.

I don't think this is correct, many people frankly want to be healthy and have enough income to survive. Once either of those needs have been tampered with you will experience how quickly everything else fades into meaninglesness.

In MMO many people do not long for power, many people like to read the lore and relax in the game, just like you would laying in the grass looking at the sky...these peple do not long for power, they just want to relax.

Your definition of power is way off. Power is something a person has but it doesn't make them able to control others the way claimed. Else, my boss could say kill someone and I would. Manipulating someone is making them do what you want so it's closer to what you are getting at but still that "they would otherwise not do" doesn't hold true again. Surety of death maybe falls under that if it is the consequence of not following orders, that's about the only time you can reliably FORCE someones hand is to make it 'me or them'. Even then you can't predict it. Some people turn on themselves when death is involved like people that run into burning buildings to save children. Sacrificing older lives for younger ones or ones that can breed versus those that can't (women and children first) sometimes play out. It's hard to put anything in your post in reference without clearing up what power is. It isn't mind control the way it's explained. I just don't see power at all like you simplified it to be.

I'll answer this not from power but from experience. Do I listen to people that are more experienced in the game than me, sure do. Do I expect someone that says they are new to believe what I am telling them, sure do. It's a trickle down of knowledge, we learn and we teach; along the way there are annotations to the subject.

i had to go to bed... anyways

8th post - 

i was correct, your responses in general are unthoughtful

9th post -

good question! 

superficial

i mean the person gains... say... gear, levels that make you stronger, abilities that are better.

genuinely better

i mean you don't need all the superficial nonsense, you actually gained some sort of knowledge or practiced some sort of trait so well that even on a level playing field with someone else, you would win (league of legends is a huge example of this, but there's also the others i said before)

10th and 11th post -

interesting view! you like the escapism and actually being in a world nomatter how powerful you are as long as it works

12th post - 

i agree that hundreds of hours will make you a better player inevitably. even if it's hitting tab 1 tab 1 tab 1 to kill a 10,000 wolves and golems and whatever, you'll eventually get genuinely better (as well as superficially).

paying to be superficially better is also interesting, maybe the carrot is not being bullied by the veteren players who can threaten you with pvp or control all the territories because they've been there from the start... although sometimes the carrot is to log out and play another game after sitting in town with all your shiny gear and wings and fire particle effects.

as for superficially paying to be better, i only like it if someone who doesn't pay can reasonably get the same things the paying players can have. as soon as a developer puts power instead of convenience into the stores, i leave.

13th post - 

you're talking about absolute power. your boss can't tell you to kill someone because he doesn't have enough power over you to do that. maybe he would have that power if your family was trapped in a building and he or his gang could push a red button to blow it up.

but then after you get the completely wrong idea, you go on and expand about it which just overall leads to a facepalm and sigh, but your ending was insightful. you're talking about games where it's only pve, where the high level players can't actually do anything to you such as cut you off from going to a zone because they can kill you.

14th post - 

so you say that cash makes a game, i disagree... investment makes a game, we agree on that... investing time is what matters, plenty of people buy a subscription and stop after the first month because the game didn't offer a good demo or free trial.

Because power is such a broad term, it's probably safe to say everyone fundamentally seeks it from games.

Our brains delight from pattern mastery (it's the underlying reason games are fun,) which is knowledge, which is power.   It's a very successful evolutionary trait because it causes people to play with concepts to discover which ones are most successful, be it game systems (quickly learning whether skill A or skill B is better) or social systems (making friends and socializing) or leadership systems (managing a guild, setting up the supporting structures to make it succesful) or something else.

So most game features tend to interact with our brain's desire to learn (to gain power), even if it's unlikely too many players would just consciously say "I play games to be powerful."  Most people are slow to notice or unaware of the things games have taught them.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't believe that ninjas have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!!

Sorry, it was just too easy, given the title.