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3/01/13 2:27:53 AM#41
Originally posted by Acidon This is pretty much true, but VG has game engine and server issues that can make it unfun at times. Also, if you are stuck playing on the European server like I am because the ping on the American server is too high, it is a very lonely experience. So far I have not been able to make many groups because there aren't enough players rather than people only want to solo. In general, people are pretty sociable and nice in VG. I actually hope more players try out VG and decide to roll on the European server. Despite some of its game engine flaws and server hiccups, it is one of the funnest games on the market. Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994. |
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3/01/13 2:37:25 AM#42
Originally posted by Sagorn I think dungeons should remain large and open to many, but I do like the idea of scaled and instanced tasks or missions a bit like they had in DAoC and AO. I liked DAoC's dungeons a lot. They were really large and required max level to hit some of the deeper areas. EQ2 has a similar idea with its dungeon areas. You can also hit max level in these games and continue to develope your character. It probably takes years to do all of the hardcoded developer content in EQ2 on one character, and now with the dungeon maker tool, players can add content continuously. I think that is great ! So huge dungeons that require time and skill to explore, high level areas that are huge and take time to explore either solo or in groups, lots of character customisation options, gear that wears out so that crafters are always viable, etc. Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994. |
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3/01/13 2:56:21 AM#43
a *non-linear* themepark about six morrowinds worth (in terms of geographic scale combined with lore depth) bolted together with dozens of factions and locations and a dozen or more starting locations providing an almost limitless number of possible paths though the game depending on the choices you make. |
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3/01/13 8:43:18 AM#44
Originally posted by MMOExposed No boredom in MY games, guess for this reason I play them. :-) Swtor, Wow, Gw2, ... But enjoyed once a lot AOC, Rift, War, CO, ... and never felt bored. What I love is good questing, awesome areas, great combat, physics, VOICED acting, ... |
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3/01/13 8:47:08 AM#45
Originally posted by Cherise Why are you not playing Vanguard it's everything you are asking for and more, are you sure you want what you are asking for? Coolermaster Cosmos II Case |
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3/01/13 9:54:02 AM#46
- A big explorable world. Where you discover things for yourself. A map that starts blank but populates when you find stuff and that you can add your own notes to it. - The world is Alive. Things are not there simply to make a game. Animals roam, hunt each other, run when scared, attack me when aggresive. The world needs to feel just like a major character. - Lots to do not just combat. Fishing, crafts, gathering, sightseeing, building, destroying, random events. - No defined 'end game'. I love games that give you a world and say 'here you go, have fun' but don't define what fun is but let you discover it because of the variety available. - Rares. I would love a system where PvE opponents can gain in power so tha eventually a leader or elite mob can emerge and go on a rampage or attack a friendly village or build a fortress. - Viable crafting. having crafting is not enough. I want crafting that requires dedication to get anywhere with it and when you get there it has to be worth it. The most frustrating thing for me when crafting is that, you never get to a point when what you are crafting actually means something or is better then stuff you can find. The perfect crafting experience would be where there are just raw materials in the world and items only get introduced to the world by players. - Raiding. I don't like the raids where you for 40 people to repeatedly fight a series of fights in the hopes of gaining an item that improves you AC by 0.0001%. A raid to me is when some savage tribe of headhunters storms the village, forcing everyone to flee to the castle and you have to defend it or where you do the invading and 'raid' an enemy or opponent. Probably more I could add but that is a good start. |
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rojo6934
 Elite Member
Joined: 8/13/09
"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli |
3/01/13 10:06:39 AM#47
Originally posted by MMOExposed meaningful quests. Impvoved and dynamic questing system, not a quest hub chain grind from A to B until the end. Inteligent monsters and enemies. Risky but rewarding world exploration. Zero hand holding. Living PvE world, non static environments and npcs. Player interaction with the environment (can i use a fire spell and burn down a hut and face consequences? can you use a water spell and put off the fire?) interactive and living world since day one. No ¨end game is where its at¨ nonsense. Dont focus on the level proces, focus on the life of the player within the game world and its Lore. And do not turn a PvE experience into a dungeon grind. What makes PvE dull to me? the PvE that we currently have in every mmo. GW2 tried to hide it and i love what they did, but someone has to take that idea and make it 1000 times better and completely remove the generic progression we have. im waiting for that day to come.
Back to questing.... if i want to collect 10 bear asses, its because i want to craft something with it and find out what can i do with it, and not because a dumb npc wants them or its written in some recipe. Let me gather materials and craft on my own to see what can i discover. "in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"
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3/01/13 11:00:08 AM#48
Originally posted by SavageHorizon The features I listed above, I expect to be able to solo or duo. I need things that I can do on my own or with my husband. I've tried to like Vanguard because I really wanted to like this game, and have gone back to make further attempts. I didn't feel there were many zone options at all when I hit the 20's. I struggled to find mobs I could take on solo and was told I needed to get the armor from some quest line (I forget what it's called) killing mobs in a dungeon. My husband and I tried to do it, but obviously it was meant for a group. I want to explore a dungeon on my own just to see neat places. If there's not stuff for us to duo comfortably, then we move on. It's definitely a group-oriented game and I guess I should have clarified my aversion to that. And without the means to get gear, I was getting weaker as I leveled. It has housing, but it was out of my reach. I never could afford it and didn't like how inaccessible it is. Didn't see any fun features that created interactions with players. No music system, no accessible housing, no pubs or med centers. I didn't consider forced grouping a positive interaction (for me) so didn't include it in the list. The one thing did like, though, were the classes. They were unique and not what you typically see. And you don't have a ridiculous number of skills on the bar, so you can enjoy the surroundings a bit more. Probably the closest thing to what I listed (from my perspective) would be a combination of SWG and DAOC's co-op server pve. SWG had the social features. DAOC had a huge variety of incredibly fun classes, tons of dungeons and leveling options (EQ1 had awesome huge dungeons as well) most all that could be done solo or duo, a large seamless world to roam. And I loved housing in both these games as you could set up a shop and sell your wares out of them. |
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3/01/13 11:33:31 AM#49
Also of good things mention by previous posters i just wanted to eco my support for a few: A big world to explore with stuff to find, i would love to see a fantasy MMO with a world as big as salem but with some character, pure random generation in some areas of wilderness but also some designed cities/ towns areas, different terrians regions: Plains, great forests, stepps, deserts, tundra perhaps a huge cavanous equalvant of the underdark. An enviroment you can mould to some extent and settle/ build. Interesting/sginificant abilities across a broad range of specialised character classes. If the game to have PVP then different rules/systems/abilties for PVP so PVE never has to be nerfed in the name of PVP balance. Largish groups 6 is a good number but 5 7 , 8 or 10 would also work A wide variety of content with lots of development opportunities, AA, items, personal sklill etc within a given level range. Sure this makes it really difficult to balance but it can make for a great in depth PVE game. Open dungeons with instanced rooms to avoid camping ques for some bosses Encourage co-operation by hard game play but have a few options for solers to have something to do
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3/01/13 11:57:22 AM#50
Originally posted by MMOExposed
You can't just discount it.
It's pretty easy and I'm pretty sure you know the answer. Anyone who is anyone on any forum has had countless conversations about the non-PVP aspects of MMO's. Crafting is one of them, but crafting alone doesn't do it. It's a player driven economy that empowers players to advance solely in crafting. Ultima Online did it best, where they forced you to allocate a certain amount of points towards crafting professions, you shared these points with your combat roles as well. This meant that you can't be the best fighter or mage in the game while being a world renown blacksmith. It forced adventurers to shop for some of the best items that the game had to offer instead of just being able to make it themselves. It created a social community within the game, something that has been all but destroyed by all powerful players and auction houses. It's items that adventurers can bring from their dungeon crawls to crafters, because only powerful crafters can make use of that item. Todays games completely alienate the crafter by allowing everyone to do everything.
Then there's your large portion of players, which includes myself, that want to play in a world sim instead of simply a dungeon treadmill. Those players want large worlds to explore and to actually be able to live in. Where have houses gone? Why can Ultima Online have a horrible housing system in a non-instanced world, but with all of the technilogical advancements in the past fifteen years, we can't have one in a MMO today? It's absolutely ridiculous. Housing gives players a sense of ownership and pride. It improves nearly every crafting profession that you can think of. It creates social points of interest and gives the player a sense of meaning. In games like WoW, where do you live? Do you go POOF when you log off? Your character doesn't dwell somewhere? Even Elder Scrolls, a game known for housing, is refusing it's players a housing system in the online adaptation. It's pure laziness, developers don't believe we care about housing and that all anyone ever wants to do is go 'PEW PEW PEW'.
What you get in a full world sim is being able to sail the seas as well. Usually today, games either are based around ships or have none in them. Why? Is it too hard to implement it? I doubt it. It adds new professions to the game, new spells even. It add underwater dungeons and unique quests that we haven't seen since DAoC and before that. You don't just magically teleport to the other side, you actually have to traverse the world that the developers painstakingly created. It adds ship battles, big fishing expeditions, sea monster fights, etc.
I think most developers have made great strides in the questing systems and dungeon systems. We've gone from static quests, to dynamic quests, to PQ's, to server events, to even rifts. Now I'm interested to see what TESO does with hubs. I've seen FFA dungeons, to instanced, to a mix between both, adding difficulties, opening up new areas to have all new boss encounters that actually make the player think. We've even startedt to see hidden areas and puzzles come back to the dungeon crawl. There has been great advancement in achievements and options given to the gatherer and adventuter. But they only come in forms of non-monotary gain.
I'm kind of tired of typing right now, but I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. There are so many things that the players have been screaming for, that no legitimate developer will even touch. Some people find it great that Trion has attached itself to ArchAge. I personally think it's a travesty in a way. It also means that such a great company will not be making a sandbox MMO for quite a long time because it will be competing with itself for a playerbase. Thus, putting these types of features in a game in the hands of a small team of devs. Which clearly hasn't worked out well so far.
Sometimes I do wish I could go back fifteen years when UO was launched. The only similar MMO is Darkfall and it's run by a bunch of bumbling idiots.
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Cuathon
Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/24/04
Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us. |
3/01/13 1:11:29 PM#51
Fabdiculous to see we still haven't moved passed the stuff we were discussing a year ago when I used to be active. I'll keep my list concise: Terrain alteration Building construction Spell design Persistant and non-respawning monster organizations Magic base words gained from exploring Localized travel and resource management Pure player economy Skill systems for non-combat being just as extensive Exploring skills like mountain climbing and bridge building Flight Creature taming and breeding Land control for resources in varying ways Gameworld that continues to evolve even if I'm offline
Had to try hard to not bring up closely crafting related stuff. |
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3/01/13 1:20:01 PM#52
I want seamless world with no load screens, similar to old non "Phased" wow.
Dynamic quests that really matter were what you do physically changes the faction/ person you are doing the quest for. (i.e. Helping a space pirate faction conquer and obtain a space station. Then the opposing faction has a quest to take it back. Or the shop selling mana potions was robbed. So noone can buy potions untill someone either gets them back or sells a large quantity to the shop owner.
Also player housing that is not instanced. Ea are like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo |
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3/01/13 1:36:20 PM#53
I want to play a game that doesn't remind me that I'm playing a game. I want to feel like a participant, not a migrator. Let me do things that I haven't already been doing for over 5 years. I want unpredictability and can accept a degree of unbalance.
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3/01/13 1:56:31 PM#54
- good fun combat with lots of interesting mechanics - good abilities, and build variations - good progression (level, items ...) And no .. these things are not exclusive to MMOs. |
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3/01/13 2:08:35 PM#55
Originally posted by MMOExposed In short something similar to SWG but with today's tech, hugh world or worlds/planets to explore, interdependency which should be optional as for those who don't want to rely on others still should find enjoyable things to do ingame. Plenty of none-combat professions
Hard to tell since fun is subjective, but bringing many different game styles together into a MMORPG is what I felt was the strenght of this genre. Untill they started to limit this genre that has became mostly just a online combat game.
As said with most of today's MMO's seem to be merly online combat games with a minor taste of rpg slapped on it. |
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3/01/13 4:44:15 PM#56
Originally posted by MMOExposed One of the problems specific to the combat is a logical problem connected to solo questing. If you have a solo quest path that all the classes follow then 1) Each fight must be beatable by the weakest solo combat class. 2) None of the tasks involved in the quest can *require* a class skill that other classes don't have.
The standard response to this logical problem has been making the classes more and more similar so there's only very little difference between their solo combat power. It has also led to most class differences unrelated to combat being dropped as they are now redundant e.g. the rogue keeps backstab and stealth but has lost climb, jump, lockpick, find traps etc. However doing this (imo) reduces replayability and therefore game longevity as classes having distinct strengths, weaknesses and playstyles encourages alting. A second response has been to try and distract the player from how faceroll it is by lots of flashing lights, rotations and big numbers but that doesn't work on the older crowd.
# If you want distinctive classes and less face-roll then the above logical problem has some potential solutions
# 1) Drop questing and go back to grouped mob-grinding. This has lots of problems of it's own.
2) Grouped questing - this has the same problems as above except magnified ten times by people wanting other players to be on the exact same stage of the group-quest as them.
( Rifts / Dynamic Events / Public Quests etc are moves in this direction trying to combine 1) and 2) without the problems that usually go with them. They are definitely an improvement. However as long as a single shared main solo quest path remains the bulk of exp then the original logical problem remains.)
3) Separate solo quest paths designed around each class so it can include class abilities and make the fights suit the class e.g. thieves have to avoid guards rather than fight them, healer type priests have npc tank pets they need to keep alive rather than fight themselves. The obvious problem with this is the amount of work it would take to create.
# Some other options which might help which i haven't seen as much
4) Games seem to have this dichotomy on group size: it's either one person or a full group. A "group" game could be designed around a group of two players as the baseline rather than 5-6 with a full group only being needed for the toughest fights. This would make soloing still viable especially on the good soloing classes while minimizing LFG problems.
5) Group-quests could be designed around the idea of a quester and companions i.e. one player has the quest and any other player who groups with them becomes a companion on the quest. Companion rewards would be set specifically and designed for synergy e.g. a priest gets a quest from his temple with a mace as the quest reward and exp and temple faction as the companion reward. Anyone could group with him to get the companion reward but a fighter might have the most incentive because the healing buffs you could buy from the temple with the faction points might be most useful for a fighter.
6) Tailored solo quests for significant class abilities e.g. the druid shapechanging spells in wow. So instead of having an entire quest chain from 1-50 for each class you have a certain number of class-specific signature quests which are tailored to the class and you focus on making the signature quests as memorable as possible.
7) Gating tailored quest chains using factions. You don't necessarily need tailored solo quests for each class from level 1 to maxlevel. If different races in the game have their version of a class with specific class skills e.g. theif, assassin, barbarian class etc each of which include a certain type of class-specific skills like climbing, stealth etc then you can have factions providing tailored solo quests for multiple classes with pre-requisites for joining i.e. only certain mage classes can join x faction, only certain rogue classes can join faction y etc. Other players could still potentially do those quests as companions but gating would make sure the quester would have any necessary abilities.
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3/01/13 5:17:36 PM#57
Originally posted by Theocritus I recently returned to UO and had forgotten how exhilarating running from reapers, liches, trolls, ogres, etc can be(or that you can!) and the fear of losing your beginner armour and weapon/spellbook when you do die and can't find a wandering healer or worse yet do but can't remember where your body is! :)
OT, the quote pretty much sums it up for me too, as long as that huge uninstanced world includes customizable(within a reasonable preset in keeping with the game's environment be it primeval, medieval, space, modern or whatever) housing without stingy storage(think UO with it's containers), the ability to tame and train pretty much any wild creature and most definitely fun fishing where you have the chance to catch a bottle with a treasure map or a fish/creature that has swallowed some treasure.
Oh and those dungeons don't all have to have dangerous beasts in them, do they? Why not have them lead to jumping puzzles that in turn lead to some cool spot that you can build a home in or a huge inlet where you can launch boats etc.... which leads me to the next thing it needs imo, runes like UO(where you also need to the skill to mark them) with portals only between major centres. That way people will still group in the cities sure, but being able to explore and find amazing spots to play in or bring friends to, to make your own village with, will help bring community back to the rpger's that have been left in the offal of pvpers with their need to rule the whole world.
That brings me back to crafting, it must be viable crafting or why bother. Loot drops are fine but they should be 85% mats and 15% "other" items like rares, armour, weapons, body pieces, gold pouches from victims, etc. As for how complicated crafting must be, do you really need to find special recipes or the npcs that can teach you them after earning their trust?
In the end, what I would like is a world where the whole world is in it together against evil forces instead of warring factions that just end up trying to enslave the rest of the world to suit their own ends. As we know, that never ends well. |
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3/02/13 2:38:33 AM#58
Originally posted by Cherise It does depend on which class you choose to play in VG. I found that I could do most small group and even some full group content solo on a paladin. However, just this alone, the fact that there is so much group content in the game, means it is hard to get much of anywhere in VG with complete freedom of choice past a certain point and unfortunately as I already stated there is still a population problem. In that sense, WoW has it right with complete freedom of choice of what class you play and how you play it. All classes are good in solo/group/PvP/etc. My dream game would incorporate elements of SWG, EVE, WoW, and EQ2. There might be a themepark element but the overall game would be a sandbox. Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994. |
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3/04/13 2:59:42 PM#59
To explore, to optimize, to think and to dodge. Explore: Give me a huge world with random npcs, events and treasures. Also make exploration matter. Optimize: I love to build a character, a skill or an item especially if I have to optimize the process to my liking. Think: Puzzles are fun. Those puzzles in TSW were awesome. They kept me in the game, made me search for answers and made my playing time worthwhile. Dodge: Action oriented combat like in TERA or vindictus makes fighting addictive. I have played action oriented but otherwise crappy games for a far longer time than AAA games like GW2 just because the combat was actually fun. --- |
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3/04/13 3:14:04 PM#60
Variety over ideology. Meaning: I don't care if the game follows the Sandbox Party or the Themepark Party, as long as there is plenty of variety of things to do. I don't care if that variety requires me to reach a cap, or requres me to craft 10000 useless items before I can start making some good ones. I don't care if I have to tab-target or shooter-target. I could give a rats arse if the action takes place in the open world, or in an instance. I don't care if I have to crawl for hours through the tundra to recover my corpse and loot, or if a magic fairy returns me instantly to life and makes me dinner. And no, I don't think "system X" is the "must have" system I just can't live without, please stop telling me it is. Ideologues = driving me nuts. |
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