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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Trouble with immersion?

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201 posts found
  Zzad

Elite Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1329

3/01/13 6:13:22 AM#61

As you can see in my pics....i have no problems with "inmersion" whatsoever :P

  impiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/09
Posts: 214

3/01/13 6:25:52 AM#62

I actually made posts articulating the same feelings right after release, but everyone told me I was the only one and that GW2 is the most immersive experience they ever had. Actually you still see a lot of those kind of posts. Often they post screenshots that are absolutely beautifull, but that has little to do with immersion. Neither does a vast and active game world. It relates to it, but its doesn't cover everything that has to do with immersion.

For me personally its mostly the UI and how central it is when you undertake actions in the gameworld. The Ui really feels like a lose layer not directly integrated into the actual game world. For example, you can level up skills directly trough the interface but this has no relation to anything in the game world. Same goes for the teleporting, you click on something on the minimap and boom loadscreen. The UI does not connect to my character at all, my caracter doesn't cast a teleport animation or something like that. This and a lot more things that are established through the UI make it so that I feel disconnected to my character. UI's are there to create the connection from the actual player to the virtual world. The UI GW does a poor job at doing this in a subtle way, and therefore making GW2 more feel like an actual game, than a virtual world that you immerse yourself in.

TL;DR: The UI of GW2, while beautifull and artistic does a poor job at creating a subtle connection between player and virtual game world. Too much is regulated directly and solely through the UI, making the UI feel as a seperate layer of the game and not something part of the virtual world.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

3/01/13 6:31:52 AM#63
Originally posted by impiro

I actually made posts articulating the same feelings right after release, but everyone told me I was the only one and that GW2 is the most immersive experience they ever had. Actually you still see a lot of those kind of posts. Often they post screenshots that are absolutely beautifull, but that has little to do with immersion. Neither does a vast and active game world. It relates to it, but its doesn't cover everything that has to do with immersion.

For me personally its mostly the UI and how central it is when you undertake actions in the gameworld. The Ui really feels like a lose layer not directly integrated into the actual game world. For example, you can level up skills directly trough the interface but this has no relation to anything in the game world. Same goes for the teleporting, you click on something on the minimap and boom loadscreen. The UI does not connect to my character at all, my caracter doesn't cast a teleport animation or something like that. This and a lot more things that are established through the UI make it so that I feel disconnected to my character. UI's are there to create the connection from the actual player to the virtual world. The UI GW does a poor job at doing this in a subtle way, and therefore making GW2 more feel like an actual game, than a virtual world that you immerse yourself in.

TL;DR: The UI of GW2, while beautifull and artistic does a poor job at creating a subtle connection between player and virtual game world. Too much is regulated directly and solely through the UI, making the UI feel as a seperate layer of the game and not something part of the virtual world.

And exactly how much of the time are you map travelling or buying skills?

 

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  impiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/09
Posts: 214

3/01/13 6:40:28 AM#64
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by impiro

I actually made posts articulating the same feelings right after release, but everyone told me I was the only one and that GW2 is the most immersive experience they ever had. Actually you still see a lot of those kind of posts. Often they post screenshots that are absolutely beautifull, but that has little to do with immersion. Neither does a vast and active game world. It relates to it, but its doesn't cover everything that has to do with immersion.

For me personally its mostly the UI and how central it is when you undertake actions in the gameworld. The Ui really feels like a lose layer not directly integrated into the actual game world. For example, you can level up skills directly trough the interface but this has no relation to anything in the game world. Same goes for the teleporting, you click on something on the minimap and boom loadscreen. The UI does not connect to my character at all, my caracter doesn't cast a teleport animation or something like that. This and a lot more things that are established through the UI make it so that I feel disconnected to my character. UI's are there to create the connection from the actual player to the virtual world. The UI GW does a poor job at doing this in a subtle way, and therefore making GW2 more feel like an actual game, than a virtual world that you immerse yourself in.

TL;DR: The UI of GW2, while beautifull and artistic does a poor job at creating a subtle connection between player and virtual game world. Too much is regulated directly and solely through the UI, making the UI feel as a seperate layer of the game and not something part of the virtual world.

And exactly how much of the time are you map travelling or buying skills?

 

Arn't you always traveling? And isnt skills part of the process of growth of the character in the game world? Arn't those especially  the things that are crucial to RPGs? The direction GW2 took was more action than RPG, so if guess that explains the reason it works this way in GW2. But its not only the examples i gave, the UI acts on its own, for example the constant popups and directions etc. Giving me UI medals, for accomplishments. UI medals that have 0 relation to the actual world, same goes for random achievements, or simply discovering certain places on the map. When you communicate too much through the UI instead of the world it feels more like a game than a world.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19488

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3/01/13 6:47:01 AM#65
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kothoses

While undoubtedly beautiful eyecandy, scenic =/= immersive.

 

It is a beautiful game, but it does feel a little prefabricated at times, its still a great game and amazing the first and second time around which is more than can be said of a lot of mmo's.   But I can see where the op is coming from, it does feel systematic when you delve into the game beyond PVE leveling.

i can see that but I compare this to other themeparks and when the standard themepark is filled with static npcs everywhere and a world that doesn't move/change at all I really can't see how people can complain gw2 feels less immersive than most other themeparks

And yet, I gave GW2 a brief try, completed one starter zone, got a character up to 15, and yet, the game feels less immersive than Aion which I went back to.

I'm not quite sure why, and plan to go back and perhaps try a different race/class, because the Charr Guardian story really wasn't grabbing me.  Leader of a blood war band and all that, in fact the character's reaction in the story line frequently isn't at all how I would have handled a situation, he was all about jumping in with much bravedo and crushing his opponents.

 

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  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4114

3/01/13 6:51:41 AM#66
Originally posted by rodingo

I originally posted this on another thread by accident. It was supposed to go here :P

 

 

Though I didn't read every reply, I think I only saw a few examples of games that supposedly did immersion better than GW2. Lotro and WoW.  I'm currently playing Lotro (again) and their environments are still incredible, but their character animations are a complete turn off.  Always have been, but GW2's animations at least follow the 12 principles of animation and are very fluid and give the illusion of life.  On the other hand, WoW has great animation but the world is hard to get immersed into now due to its low polycount for today's standards.  Back in 2005 it was a different story. 

GW2 so far is the superior game for immersion when it comes to both animation and game environment, hands down.  Any other examples that people have to compare?

I'm the one who mentioned Lotro and WoW.  I agree that the character animations and avatars are ugly in Lotro, but I felt the environment was so well done that it drowned out those negatives when it comes to immersion.  For me landscape and zone design as well as sound design are the first things to suck me into a world i.e. immersion factor.

WoW now is a bit different yeah, but my memories of it are mostly comprised of Vanilla through Lich King, and I always felt immersed, mostly due to the sound design, music included.  WoW combat has always "felt" more visceral and the sheer amount of polish in the game really helps with immersion. 

You mention GW2 is being superior in immersion and animation and game environment, all of which I enjoy in GW2, but never once did I feel a connection to my character or that the World felt like a world.  While beautiful I still find GW2 zone design lacking, more along the foundation aspect as opposed to the glossy surface, if that makes any sense. It's a bit difficult to pinpoint exactly but there is something off just enough to ruin immersion.  I even enjoy the sound design in GW2, so not quite sure what exactly is missing.

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  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4114

3/01/13 6:53:52 AM#67
Originally posted by Kinchyle
I was more immmersed than any MMO I had played previous....and I think the OP would do well to figure out that a game is a game.  Not some "take you you away to a special worl" kinda thing...

This is where I disagree.  This genre is all about "take you to a special world" and is why I play it above all other game types.  Why do you think people have been annoyed with each MMO since WoW?  Because they've been going the opposite way from being living worlds.  Tons of threads on this subject on these forums too , so don't just take my word for it.

 

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  timtrack

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 415

3/01/13 7:02:15 AM#68

I think the main offender in this case are the instant-portals paired with the cut off rectangular zones. There is no exotic part of the world that you can't get to within 2 minutes. In my last hours of beta i ran from one end of the map to the other without using portals, that was immersive, and a beautiful sight to behold all the way. It really made the world feel as large as it is. Now someone's going to argue "well keep doing that then, portals are optional". Just don't, it's not a valid argument. I can't tell my dungeon party to wait for 1.5 hours while i embark on a heroic journey to our destination. Even if i had such patient and understanding friends, the knowledge of the portal and that they are already there waiting because they used it, breaks it.

 

GW2 is a beautiful game by all means, but the portals just takes away from it's true potential in my opinion. While understandably practical in todays expectations of instant gratification, there is no doubt that the world would feel much larger and exotic if it was done in another way.

 

The zone-borders and narrow doorway-portals between them is a technical limitation. I understand why they are there. But in an ideal fantasy-world,  removing them would also add alot to the immersion and sense of scale.

  Vapors

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/16/10
Posts: 408

3/01/13 7:05:32 AM#69
The world looks kind of big and polished, but it does not give you the right feeling, like other games with way worser graphics did. Every area felt somehow the same and I just had the feeling to press screeenshot when i reached a "viewpoint by jumping up somethere". I remember aoc gave you a living feeling in khitai where i had to press screenshot button every 2 minutes.
  User Deleted
3/01/13 7:11:46 AM#70
Originally posted by timtrack

I think the main offender in this case are the instant-portals paired with the cut off rectangular zones. There is no exotic part of the world that you can't get to within 2 minutes. In my last hours of beta i ran from one end of the map to the other without using portals, that was immersive, and a beautiful sight to behold all the way. It really made the world feel as large as it is. Now someone's going to argue "well keep doing that then, portals are optional". Just don't, it's not a valid argument. I can't tell my dungeon party to wait for 1.5 hours while i embark on a heroic journey to our destination. Even if i had such patient and understanding friends, the knowledge of the portal and that they are already there waiting because they used it, breaks it.

 

GW2 is a beautiful game by all means, but the portals just takes away from it's true potential in my opinion. While understandably practical in todays expectations of instant gratification, there is no doubt that the world would feel much larger and exotic if it was done in another way.

 

The zone-borders and narrow doorway-portals between them is a technical limitation. I understand why they are there. But in an ideal fantasy-world,  removing them would also add alot to the immersion and sense of scale.

I agree with you, most of the zones look really good while you're in them but much of it gets missed while porting around.  I also found the fact that almost every zone is a perfect rectangle to be a little silly and clearly unrealistic.

Couple that with the limited and narrow entry / exit points and load times between zones and you've got a lot of little things that can easy ruin the immersion for many players.

 

  dynamicipftw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/12
Posts: 216

3/01/13 7:29:52 AM#71

The reason GW2 is the least immersive MMO I have ever played is that there is way too much important information on the minimap and map. I find myself looking at them instead of the game world most of the time since it tells me what and where to "explore" (or visit the places the game already explored for me). 

 

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1580

3/01/13 7:30:29 AM#72

To be honest i found LOTRO to be just as beautiful as GW2 but far, far more immersive. LOTRO goes a long way in making you feel like you are part of  the world instead of the merry go round that is GW2. Yes you do have a lot of  fed x quests in lotro but so does GW2 with those heart quests, you know,  the npcs with the quest markers above there heads that look like yellow hearts.

In lotro you know that somewhere in the world frodo and co are on the move and sooner or later your paths will cross. Aragorn in the parancing pony or Gandalf sending on your merry way. Then you have skirmishes and epic book quests, GW2 is stale and lifeless when you actually stand back and look at it through fanboy eyes.

 

It's a pity because the game world looks great but that don't mean shit if  the the world actually feels devoid of any life.

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  User Deleted
3/01/13 7:33:56 AM#73
Originally posted by timtrack

I think the main offender in this case are the instant-portals paired with the cut off rectangular zones. There is no exotic part of the world that you can't get to within 2 minutes. In my last hours of beta i ran from one end of the map to the other without using portals, that was immersive, and a beautiful sight to behold all the way. It really made the world feel as large as it is. Now someone's going to argue "well keep doing that then, portals are optional". Just don't, it's not a valid argument. I can't tell my dungeon party to wait for 1.5 hours while i embark on a heroic journey to our destination. Even if i had such patient and understanding friends, the knowledge of the portal and that they are already there waiting because they used it, breaks it.

 

GW2 is a beautiful game by all means, but the portals just takes away from it's true potential in my opinion. While understandably practical in todays expectations of instant gratification, there is no doubt that the world would feel much larger and exotic if it was done in another way.

 

The zone-borders and narrow doorway-portals between them is a technical limitation. I understand why they are there. But in an ideal fantasy-world,  removing them would also add alot to the immersion and sense of scale.

And thats exactly why you wil never get AAA game you want.

Concept:

Ill run there today (few hoours)

Tomorrow ill play dungeon (few hours)

And then day after tomorrow ill run back (few hours)

is extreme niche and so obvious timesinks that it hurts.

i dont really know why you and people like you hang around AAA MMOs since they obviously dont provide things you want and instead go (back) to those games that do.

And instant gratification? So, playing 100 hours through crap just to have 1 hour of fun is "way to go"?

Originally posted by SavageHorizon

To be honest i found LOTRO to be just as beautiful as GW2 but far, far more immersive. LOTRO goes a long way in making you feel like you are part of  the world instead of the merry go round that is GW2. Yes you do have a lot of  fed x quests in lotro but so does GW2 with those heart quests, you know,  the npcs with the quest markers above there heads that look like yellow hearts.

In lotro you know that somewhere in the world frodo and co are on the move and sooner or later your paths will cross. Aragorn in the parancing pony or Gandalf sending on your merry way. Then you have skirmishes and epic book quests, GW2 is stale and lifeless when you actually stand back and look at it through fanboy eyes.

 

It's a pity because the game world looks great but that don't mean shit if  the the world actually feels devoid of any life.

Quite opposite, while LOTROs art is beautiful and Turbine did awesome job of bringing ME online, LOTROs world is lifeless and static and ultra bring gameplay wise (like all of the games of that kind) which broke immersion a lot. I mean, i just did quest and set fellowship on their way. WTF are they STILL in Rivendell just as they were before i did that quest? (you can apply this to 99,99% of quests). Now if that isnt immersion breaking i dont know what is.

OTOH GW2s world is beautiful and alive and you can immerse yorself in it completely.

  iZakaroN

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 731

\m/

3/01/13 7:40:59 AM#74
I was also  very disappointed with the immersion. For me the two points that ruin the imerrsion is generally instancing and the fast travel/portals. The casual features alwasy goes against the immersion, but in case of GW2 it goes too far.






Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
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  Djildjamesh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/11
Posts: 407

3/01/13 7:47:16 AM#75

GW2 has  most emersive world design i've ever had the pleasure of playing!

 

still... i don't feel emersed. It's a strang feeling really. I think it has to do with the travel system and the way the world is build up.

Say what you want but if GW2 would be seamless without portals / teleporting and instead make use of travel systems (boats zeppelins w/e) and maybe mounts this game would feel extremely different.

 

Then again, i don't know if that would fix everything but it would be a good first step.

Still this game is the best MMO i've played since 2004

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

3/01/13 7:50:16 AM#76
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by jpnz
Probably because the world is setup as boxes with fixed portals. It just feels artificial and small.

^^^This.  I have the exact same issue when playing AoC or TSW, heck even EQ2.  It's that stupid non seamless world design, it just ruins the immersion.  Only one game ever broke that mold and that was FFXI, for some reason, those instanced zones were almost overly immersive, lol(not really, but you get the gist).

Every "zone" is basically a filled square/rectangle of content.  The content is fine, but the layout makes it feel confined and fake.  Of course another horrible way would have been the WAR way, 2 linear paths running perpendicular to each other with a big space in the middle for PVP.  Crappy world/zone design there as well.  Gotta have crap cross over and in and out and be more geographically sound.  In other words more haphazard and non shape specific.  I think Lotro and WoW handle this fairly well.

Oh yeah, WoW, where you move from snow to grasslands or from tempered forest to lush jungle by just crossing a zone border. WoW, where caves are copy/pasted all over the world, all based on the same few models, even today in the pandaria lands. Very immersive.

And LotRO, which must have some of the ugliest hillside textures of all modern MMORPGs, where you see the repeating texture pattern on most hills and mountains. LotRO where you see exactly the same ruin models in the new zones that you saw in 2007 at the game release. And don't get me even started on the character animations in LOTRO... Top immersion indeed.

At least in GW2, when you come down from the Snowpeak mountains, it's progressive, and you don't immediately end in the jungle either. In GW2, every cave is handscrafted and unique. And at least ANet knows how to use pixel shaders to make good looking hillsides and mountains, even if they only use DX9.

I'm gonna tell you what is most likely affecting immersion the most in GW2. It's not the zone design. The zones are huge, and as well if not better crafted than the WoW zones. It's the fact that you can instantly teleport everywhere. It's a double edged sword, it's convenient for players but disconnects you from the world too. That's why to get lost in the world, aka immerse myself, I restrict my waypoint usage to the minimum... and guess what, it made me discover things I would never have seen otherwise.

EDIT: hehe Djildjamesh posted the same thing than me at the same time about the travel system :)

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Geobardi

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/05
Posts: 68

3/01/13 8:03:48 AM#77

I have to say that for me, the original Guild Wars was much more immersive than the second, maybe because it was a lobby game and the adventure felt much more personal, not seeing other players around except for the cities and outposts. And the story was much more interesting, it's one of my favorite worlds ever created. I felt the same with FFXI and it was zoned too, almost every MMO is zoned, the "seamless" worlds are, in fact, very rare in MMOs, so arguing that zones breaks immersion is simply stupid, we had immersion before WoW, the original EverQuest was one of the most immersive games in the story of MMOs and it was zoned too.

Maybe it's not GW2's fault, maybe it's us, the players, who have matured and the sense of immersion and fascination we had with MMOs is harder to obtain with every new game that is released...

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2893

There... are... four... lights!

3/01/13 8:13:11 AM#78

Oh yes, GW1... totally artificial world made of instances outside of any town, inability to do something as simple as jumping. To each his own of course, but that game would be the antithesis of immersion for me. Being able to meet other players is part of what makes a world feel alive.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  User Deleted
3/01/13 8:16:25 AM#79
Originally posted by Geobardi

Maybe it's not GW2's fault, maybe it's us, the players, who have matured and the sense of immersion and fascination we had with MMOs is harder to obtain with every new game that is released...

Thats what this whole discussion points to.

the whole "immersion breaking" argument from using optonal stuff is invalid.

If you are offered option A and B, A breakes youe immersion and B doesnt, but you costantly choose A and then proceed to whine about how "A is immersion breaking"....i mean it tells more about player than the game.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2975

3/01/13 8:18:10 AM#80

Good graphics and scenery is one of the things which help immersion but it's not the only one. The other two aspects which contribute to immersion are music and story.

The lore behind the GW universe is great and I really found the story in GW1 interesting. The problem in GW2 is that there is almost no story behind it. Hearts do not deliver any story which is a huge turn off. I often stop playing MMOs when I stop reading their quest boxes. Just clicking accept and killing 10 mobs is boring to me and feels like grind. But when you find the story interesting in the quests it makes it that much more immersive. It gives you context and background to your actions. Much more immersive. EVents for the most part don't deliver any real story (except some more elaborate event chains/meta evants). Personal story is good but the fact that it happens once every 3 levels and it is uterly boring and cheesy makes it baad. I am sick of being told I am the best thing to grace Tyria since sliced bread.

Music is the other aspect. GW2 has some amazing soundtracks. They are very immersive. BUT often I hear only one track per zone and it plays only once in a while. Kinda gets lost. GW1 did this brilliantly.

Despite what people say about exclamations marks over NPCs heads, WOW was one of the most immersive MMOs I've played. GW1 did not come anywhere near the level of immersion WoW had and I find GW2 even less immersive than GW1 so yeah. Every zone in WoW had real personality behind it and it had quite a bit of story behind it. Zones like Duskwood, Burning Steppes, Ashenvale etc. were amazing and very immersive. WoW also had incredible music and sound which really made it very immersive. And I have never ever been bothered by those exclamation marks people talk about all the time. It's only since GW2 started saying how that's stupid and old school that people started having a problem with that. And it's not like GW2 got rid of that, did they? I can see that karma/heart symbol over an NPC. It's just a different shape. 

Also the seamless transition between zones and no quick travel did help WoW's immersion too. I don't mind zoning and I don't see as an instant immersion breaker but seamless transitions really helps.

 

Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Geobardi

Maybe it's not GW2's fault, maybe it's us, the players, who have matured and the sense of immersion and fascination we had with MMOs is harder to obtain with every new game that is released...

Thats what this whole discussion points to.

the whole "immersion breaking" argument from using optonal stuff is invalid.

If you are offered option A and B, A breakes youe immersion and B doesnt, but you costantly choose A and then proceed to whine about how "A is immersion breaking"....i mean it tells more about player than the game.

This argument that if quick travel breaks your immersion, don't use it is not entirely true. That would be a fair point if there were mounts in the game. But if I don't use quick travel my only option is to walk. In WoW I could get a mount which sped things up. But then again when people suggest that ArenaNet introduce mounts, people say what's the point? The question is why not? It will give people who don't want to use quick travel an alternative.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

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