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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Trouble with immersion?

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201 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 9:53:25 PM#41
Originally posted by observer

The portals and waypoints ruin the immersion for me too, but only for traveling.  The immersive aspects, such as, NPC chatter, environmental sounds, depth of scenery, armor/weapons detail, are all amazing.

Hardanger, you mentioned, world design, character models, UI.., but i disagree with all your points.

  • World design is subjective, but most reviews mention the amazing attention to details and immersion.
  • Character models are good too.  They have their story, paths, voiceovers, etc.
  • UI is debatable, but still, it's a minimal design and not intrusive on your monitor's real estate.
I'm just trying to understand how you feel these points aren't immersive.  Care to compare them to other MMOs?

this is an older video from beta but good one on the little things that really add to the immersion in terms of world design and character models and such

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu_clrndx_c

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  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1719

2/28/13 10:01:54 PM#42

I originally posted this on another thread by accident. It was supposed to go here :P

 

 

Though I didn't read every reply, I think I only saw a few examples of games that supposedly did immersion better than GW2. Lotro and WoW.  I'm currently playing Lotro (again) and their environments are still incredible, but their character animations are a complete turn off.  Always have been, but GW2's animations at least follow the 12 principles of animation and are very fluid and give the illusion of life.  On the other hand, WoW has great animation but the world is hard to get immersed into now due to its low polycount for today's standards.  Back in 2005 it was a different story. 

GW2 so far is the superior game for immersion when it comes to both animation and game environment, hands down.  Any other examples that people have to compare?

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  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

2/28/13 10:54:02 PM#43

One of the things that killed immersion for me was the checklist approach to the map design. The world feels synthetic because there's a predetermined list of things to see and do in each area, and once you've 100% completed an area there's no longer any mystery to it. A world with no mystery has nothing to explore and feels fake.

In other MMOs even if you have 100% completed an area you don't know that you have, and that's what makes all the difference. There's always that chance you'll find something new... GW2 doesn't have that; once you're done, you're done... that's not an immersive world.

  Kinchyle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 264

2/28/13 11:03:28 PM#44
I was more immmersed than any MMO I had played previous....and I think the OP would do well to figure out that a game is a game.  Not some "take you you away to a special worl" kinda thing...
  mazut

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 826

3/01/13 2:01:00 AM#45
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by snapfusion
Take a gameworld and fracture it into 20 plus pieces joined by spinning portals, then add quick travel and you pretty much kill all immersion.  Shame too since parts of this game look really nice, but each zone is like visiting a musem or going to a movie, the world just doesnt seem connected in any way.

Sorry, if you can't use your imagination while waiting between zones then  you are probably playing the wrong type of game. You should be able to connect one area with the other in that 10-15 seconds it takes.

As far as teleporting from one area to another, all I can say is if bothers you, don't do it. /shrug

 

^^ People with lack of imagintion, thats the real problem with OP and the rest.

Sorry, this can't be fixed... error...error....BOOM

  mazut

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 826

3/01/13 2:05:11 AM#46
Originally posted by Alberel

One of the things that killed immersion for me was the checklist approach to the map design. The world feels synthetic because there's a predetermined list of things to see and do in each area, and once you've 100% completed an area there's no longer any mystery to it. A world with no mystery has nothing to explore and feels fake.

In other MMOs even if you have 100% completed an area you don't know that you have, and that's what makes all the difference. There's always that chance you'll find something new... GW2 doesn't have that; once you're done, you're done... that's not an immersive world.

I agree, in gw1 the cartographer(explorer) title was way better. No specific PoI, but only a fog over the world map, clearing only if you run exactly to the spot.

But there is still salvation, by adding hidden dungeons and new hidden areas, there is a lot of space for that.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/01/13 2:08:29 AM#47

The lack of an immersive story and lore is what did it for me. They attempt to have one don't get me wrong. it simply is very poorly done.

Really though...this should be in the Impressions section and not here.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2847

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

3/01/13 2:09:57 AM#48

Funny enough, immersion in terms of graphics... really didn't bother me. Its a more cartoony look that I honestly was fine with. While I feel the environments are lacking in terms of capitalizing on this making it feel a bit more 'dule' I can't really say graphics are what broke my immersion or interest in the game. The UI itself was a bit detracting I'd have to say but its not something that at least drove me crazy at the very least.

 

My immersion breaking just comes mostly with the clunky combat and lack of progression primarily rather then anything graphical I feel, with only environments feeling 'meh' being my biggest iffy point on it.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/01/13 2:15:57 AM#49
Originally posted by Purutzil

Funny enough, immersion in terms of graphics... really didn't bother me. Its a more cartoony look that I honestly was fine with.

I really thought from a graphic and animation standpoint this game shined to be honest.

It is in other areas I deem it lackluster myself

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  saurus123

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 510

3/01/13 2:19:00 AM#50
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by FlawSGI
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by FlawSGI
 Sorry you feel that way OP. I personally have no problem with immersion and TBH I find myslef lost in the game at times when I play. The only things that I feel it lacks that makes it less immersive are weather effects and a real day and night cycle. Other than that the sounds, environment, and world feel more alive than any other game I have beena part of. While I can say I am underwhelmed by a few things in the game, immersion isn't one for me. Oh and the fast travel also takes me a step back as far as immersion but I only feel the disconnect when I am zone hopping, not when hitting an area and going for the exploration.

Wow I actually never noticed there was no day night cycle, I actually thought I remembered areas where it was night, maybe Im wrong.

there very much IS a day and night cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUrBT5Gt0w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrsJbsq4Qs

Yeah but I came from a game like FFXI where it was more common and noticeable. Also play Dragons Dogma and you will see how it is more prevalent. I know they said that there would be cycles and weapons had enchants that would depend on day or night cycles but they aren't very noticeable. I wasn't saying they didn't exist in the game, only they were very lacking based on games I have played in the past that got it right. When I said "real day and night cycle" I was meaning one you can set your game watch to. 

its noticable to me but also depends what zone you are in as some it's a lot more noticable than others.. but as most themepark MMOs it does really serve no purpose aside from the aesthetics it adds.. unlike games like skyrim for example where stores are closed at night and such but honestly i think doing stuff like that would make people mad more than anything as in skyrim you can at least rest and move time along as you please in a MMO you wouldn't be able to do that

actually it have a purpose :)

there are few items that give you different effect when its night or day, also noticed most events happen only in day time :)

unless its Orr where undeads dont sleep

  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1405

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

3/01/13 2:30:25 AM#51
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by FlawSGI
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by FlawSGI
 Sorry you feel that way OP. I personally have no problem with immersion and TBH I find myslef lost in the game at times when I play. The only things that I feel it lacks that makes it less immersive are weather effects and a real day and night cycle. Other than that the sounds, environment, and world feel more alive than any other game I have beena part of. While I can say I am underwhelmed by a few things in the game, immersion isn't one for me. Oh and the fast travel also takes me a step back as far as immersion but I only feel the disconnect when I am zone hopping, not when hitting an area and going for the exploration.

Wow I actually never noticed there was no day night cycle, I actually thought I remembered areas where it was night, maybe Im wrong.

there very much IS a day and night cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUrBT5Gt0w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrsJbsq4Qs

Yeah but I came from a game like FFXI where it was more common and noticeable. Also play Dragons Dogma and you will see how it is more prevalent. I know they said that there would be cycles and weapons had enchants that would depend on day or night cycles but they aren't very noticeable. I wasn't saying they didn't exist in the game, only they were very lacking based on games I have played in the past that got it right. When I said "real day and night cycle" I was meaning one you can set your game watch to. 

its noticable to me but also depends what zone you are in as some it's a lot more noticable than others.. but as most themepark MMOs it does really serve no purpose aside from the aesthetics it adds.. unlike games like skyrim for example where stores are closed at night and such but honestly i think doing stuff like that would make people mad more than anything as in skyrim you can at least rest and move time along as you please in a MMO you wouldn't be able to do that

I can see your point of view, but this isn't what the post was about to begin with. I am not discussing what is good or bad for the game, only what I feeel doesn't add to the immersion. While it is noticeable to you, I feel it isn't and also feel they could have done more with the system such as weather having affects on certain buffs and such as well as day and night cycles doing likewise. Sure it serves no purpose in the way the game is now, but had they decided to implement it in a more meaningful way it could serve a larger purpose than aesthetics. I know this because games have done it in the past and it worked fine. The point of the post was the OP felt like he couldn't get immersed in the game and I listed a few things that I felt were lacking. That's it.

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  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/01/13 2:35:08 AM#52
Originally posted by Kinchyle
I was more immmersed than any MMO I had played previous....and I think the OP would do well to figure out that a game is a game.  Not some "take you you away to a special worl" kinda thing...

Actually that's what MMOs were always intended to be... It's only post-WoW that they've lost that.

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/01/13 2:52:06 AM#53
Originally posted by Alberel

Actually that's what MMOs were always intended to be... It's only post-WoW that they've lost that.

Highly debatable

All one has to do is simply look at forums like these to realize players are just as much at a loss

 

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2674

3/01/13 3:00:04 AM#54

I think one of the main reasons why I was not immersed in GW2 was because of the lack of quests. While their event system is cool, I absolutely despise hearts because they have 0 story behind them. In games like WoW you have quests which you read (at least I did) and they tell you a story. Some of them were cheesy but there was a lot of them which were very interesting and most importantly they gave you some backgroud around what you were doing.

In GW2 hearts just feel like a shopping list of things to do with no context unless you go to the NPC which gives you 2 scrappy lines. And they also don't connect like quest chains do.

In my opinion GW2 should've went for traditional quests and events and personal storyline. Would've made it much more immersive. Hearts just suck

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

3/01/13 3:00:49 AM#55

I thought world exploration and emersion were the games strong points. I had a friend try to play after heavily playing Tera, and I think it was difficult for him to adjust back to less active combat, though to me that was another one of the games strengths. I got bored at end game is why I quit. The whole PVE level grind was fun once through, could maybe level some alts with friends, but none of them play it anymore. lol.

^ The hearts on the map were npcs with the story and the details of the quest. Their system made it optional.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

3/01/13 3:14:00 AM#56
Originally posted by Wickedjelly
Originally posted by Alberel

Actually that's what MMOs were always intended to be... It's only post-WoW that they've lost that.

Highly debatable

All one has to do is simply look at forums like these to realize players are just as much at a loss

It's not really debatable at all... look at any pre-WoW MMO and you'll see system after system designed to simulate a virtual world. Housing, in-depth craftfing, player economies, politics, meaningful factions, a requirement for social interaction, persistant player relationships, meaningful travel... things weren't easy but the world felt alive and every player had a place in it.

WoW was the first game to try to make MMOs more 'convenient' and in doing so gutted most of the features that made a virtual world, it was still an immersive game but not on the same level as its predecessors. Since then the genre has been systematically exterminating systems that create immersion in the interest of making things more convenient for casual players. The only thing left is the graphical representation of the world itself and whatever lore they cobbled together (and no, those alone do not make a game immersive, immersion comes from the interaction with the world).

It's probably worth noting that several upcoming MMOs are seeing a return of housing and other immersive systems so the devs are clearly seeing demand for these things after such a long absence.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/01/13 3:19:48 AM#57

It´s about as immersive as any Super Mario 3-D game.

High fantasy cartoony look and different playfields to run around and kill stuff. There is nothing "realistic" about this game to get immersed in.

 

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  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

3/01/13 3:30:16 AM#58
Originally posted by Alberel

It's not really debatable at all... look at any pre-WoW MMO and you'll see system after system designed to simulate a virtual world. Housing, in-depth craftfing, player economies, politics, meaningful factions, a requirement for social interaction, persistant player relationships, meaningful travel... things weren't easy but the world felt alive and every player had a place in it.

WoW was the first game to try to make MMOs more 'convenient' and in doing so gutted most of the features that made a virtual world, it was still an immersive game but not on the same level as its predecessors. Since then the genre has been systematically exterminating systems that create immersion in the interest of making things more convenient for casual players. The only thing left is the graphical representation of the world itself and whatever lore they cobbled together (and no, those alone do not make a game immersive, immersion comes from the interaction with the world).

It's probably worth noting that several upcoming MMOs are seeing a return of housing and other immersive systems so the devs are clearly seeing demand for these things after such a long absence.

System after system? Really? There a few but not many.

...and while everyone tries to blame WoW for all the mmo woes that really isn't the case. All Wow did was mainsteam mmos.

Hope you're right that these new mmos wiil infuse the industry. Really doubt it though. God knows we've heard it enough fucking times already:

VG was going to

GW was going to

STO was going to

AoC was going to

FFWhatever was going to

DCU was going to

CO was going to

GW2 was going to

SWTOR was going to

The list goes on and on.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  User Deleted
3/01/13 3:53:18 AM#59
Originally posted by Alberel

It's not really debatable at all... look at any pre-WoW MMO and you'll see system after system designed to simulate a virtual world. Housing, in-depth craftfing, player economies, politics, meaningful factions, a requirement for social interaction, persistant player relationships, meaningful travel... things weren't easy but the world felt alive and every player had a place in it.

WoW was the first game to try to make MMOs more 'convenient' and in doing so gutted most of the features that made a virtual world, it was still an immersive game but not on the same level as its predecessors. Since then the genre has been systematically exterminating systems that create immersion in the interest of making things more convenient for casual players. The only thing left is the graphical representation of the world itself and whatever lore they cobbled together (and no, those alone do not make a game immersive, immersion comes from the interaction with the world).

It's probably worth noting that several upcoming MMOs are seeing a return of housing and other immersive systems so the devs are clearly seeing demand for these things after such a long absence.

The las tthing i want is virtual simulation of RL.

The last thing i want is house i need to keep clean and upkeep...in a game. I have that in RL

The last thing i want is to HAVE TO spend few hours just to get from point A to point B

The last thing i want is to sit at crafting table for hours to "maybe" produce 1 component of some item. Not to mention lol RNG crafting systems.

The last thing i need is bots running the economy (aka "player driven economy")

The last thing i need in a game is politics, i get waaaaaaay too much of that in RL

The last thing i need is being forced to "social interactivness", i want to hang out with other people because i WANT to not because im FORCED to.

No, the devs arent "clearly seeing demand" for these.

GW2 is most immersive MMO ive played in 13 years, world is almost alive, exploration is great, cooperation between people is great, it has great (involved) combat system, and in the end, it doesnt FORCE you to do stuff. Its really a breath of fresh air after a loong loong time of staleness.

They need to deal with lag in huge groups of people (120-150+ in my experience) and culling though.

And its really funny

"waypointing break my immersion". Dont do it then, duh. Yah, its that easy, dont blame the game becaus eof your laziness ;P

"POIs and vistas on map break my immersion". Turn them off, duh? Besides, theres a lot to explore besides POIs and vistas, those are not only exploration points (even if you do get xp and nice cutscene for them)

Its like blaming food making you bulimic lol

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2588

3/01/13 5:03:21 AM#60

It is fun how people cant find stuff when they aren't in their face and if it is in their face they complain.

No, exploration isn't limited to the stuff marked in the game map.

After getting 100% of the markers on each zone there will be zones left to explore that are required for the exploraton achievement.

Jumping puzzles also aren't marked in the map.

Chests aren't marked in the map.

Mini dungeons aren't marked in the map.

The game has crazy verticality - it is crazy how often one find a cave or whatever and go down and down and down or up and up and up when from the outside one would never imagine it would be so big.

 

Also it is clear most people never reached levels where waypoint cost is between 2s and 5s. Most people won't burn the daily reward on a single waypoint travel.

 

if you don't like a check list, don't use the map or turn off the markers (press "m" lower left "eye icon" untick whatever you don't want).

Immersion is a word that mean everything and so it means nothing.

For myself immersion is when I look a the clock and instead of being midnight is 3 in the morning - GW2 does that for me.

I guess for others immersion is to stop feeling you are playing a game - No game has ever done that to me.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

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