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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Trouble with immersion?

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201 posts found
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 7:14:47 PM#21
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by jpnz
Probably because the world is setup as boxes with fixed portals. It just feels artificial and small.

^^^This.  I have the exact same issue when playing AoC or TSW, heck even EQ2.  It's that stupid non seamless world design, it just ruins the immersion.  Only one game ever broke that mold and that was FFXI, for some reason, those instanced zones were almost overly immersive, lol(not really, but you get the gist).

Every "zone" is basically a filled square/rectangle of content.  The content is fine, but the layout makes it feel confined and fake.  Of course another horrible way would have been the WAR way, 2 linear paths running perpendicular to each other with a big space in the middle for PVP.  Crappy world/zone design there as well.  Gotta have crap cross over and in and out and be more geographically sound.  In other words more haphazard and non shape specific.  I think Lotro and WoW handle this fairly well.

even in wow though what does it matter if it was seamless or zoned with loading screen? everything that happens PVE wise  is contained to that specific zone things didn't spill over and effect multiple zones(at least during vanilla didn't play much after that) I didn't play lotro much so can't comment on that... overall i never found it mattered if the games seamless zones or not as everything was contained within the zone anyway so it didn't make a whole lot of difference overall in that aspect.. now what goes on in the zone is another matter.. are there battles going on are there constant skirmishes between npcs and faction wars going on inside each zone that makes them feel alive.. to me this is where gw2 nailed the immersion feeling for me

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3604

2/28/13 7:15:16 PM#22
Originally posted by snapfusion
Take a gameworld and fracture it into 20 plus pieces joined by spinning portals, then add quick travel and you pretty much kill all immersion.  Shame too since parts of this game look really nice, but each zone is like visiting a musem or going to a movie, the world just doesnt seem connected in any way.

Sorry, if you can't use your imagination while waiting between zones then  you are probably playing the wrong type of game. You should be able to connect one area with the other in that 10-15 seconds it takes.

As far as teleporting from one area to another, all I can say is if bothers you, don't do it. /shrug

 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1974

2/28/13 7:31:04 PM#23
Originally posted by Hardanger

 

I'm wondering if others have had a similar experience, and can help me understand why I feel so much less connected to this game than to its prequel, for example.

 

My biggest immersion breaker is the instant travel. I installed the game again after months of pause, made new char and went for it. Everything was great and fun, until at around lvl6 I realized that I had been just running around and forgot about the main story, this was not the problem, it's actually cool such a thing can happen in themepark, but what followed afterwards dropped me into the state of meh again.

 

I opened map to check on where the story location was, and then clicked on the nearest waypoint and: boom - the immersion switch got turned off. I begun to pick up on the story and just blinked around the map to get to the story locations. Blink, blink, blink, I just traveled from point to point with tons of land in betweem, it took few seconds and nobody even saw me on the road. Having to actually travel (even after the first time) to places that you want to visit makes it feel more meaningful and adventurous (immersive).

 

Just give me a shard where there isnt waypoints at all (or maybe like 6 in the whole world?) and where I can run just a little bit faster (since there obviously wont be mounts ever). If you cant travel in 3 seconds to everywhere in the world, the world stops feeling so damn small and artificial, at least in theory that should help but who knows.

 

Currently there arent any far away lands that I have to travel to, there are just maps and places where I can get in 3 seconds regardless of my destination or current location... Meh. Want to farm at some distant cool spot? Click you're already there. Need to sell trash? Click you're at the vendor. Need to get to the other side of the whole world? You're already there.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

2/28/13 7:39:08 PM#24
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Take a gameworld and fracture it into 20 plus pieces joined by spinning portals, then add quick travel and you pretty much kill all immersion.  Shame too since parts of this game look really nice, but each zone is like visiting a musem or going to a movie, the world just doesnt seem connected in any way.

i can see that as well.. each zone is almost a little "world" inside itself in a way(but you could say that about most zoned games even ones with "seamless" zoning).. while as a whole I can see it killing immersion for some when actually in a zone and running around it's still the most immersive PVE experience I have had in a MMO in a very very long time

Cant argue I had a blast and still visit GW2 now and then, Im still searching though for a totally immersive game experience, if only AV knew what to do the original DF.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3604

2/28/13 7:40:46 PM#25
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Hardanger

 

I'm wondering if others have had a similar experience, and can help me understand why I feel so much less connected to this game than to its prequel, for example.

 

My biggest immersion breaker is the instant travel. I installed the game again after months of pause, made new char and went for it. Everything was great and fun, until at around lvl6 I realized that I had been just running around and forgot about the main story, this was not the problem, it's actually cool such a thing can happen in themepark, but what followed afterwards dropped me into the state of meh again.

 

I opened map to check on where the story location was, and then clicked on the nearest waypoint and: boom - the immersion switch got turned off. I begun to pick up on the story and just blinked around the map to get to the story locations. Blink, blink, blink, I just traveled from point to point with tons of land in betweem, it took few seconds and nobody even saw me on the road. Having to actually travel (even after the first time) to places that you want to visit makes it feel more meaningful and adventurous (immersive).

 

Just give me a shard where there isnt waypoints at all (or maybe like 6 in the whole world?) and where I can run just a little bit faster (since there obviously wont be mounts ever). If you cant travel in 3 seconds to everywhere in the world, the world stops feeling so damn small and artificial, at least in theory that should help but who knows.

 

Currently there arent any far away lands that I have to travel to, there are just maps and places where I can get in 3 seconds regardless of my destination or current location... Meh. Want to farm at some distant cool spot? Click you're already there. Need to sell trash? Click you're at the vendor. Need to get to the other side of the whole world? You're already there.

Note my comment above. Don't use that waypoints if it is making the game bad for you. They put them there for our convenience, not so you HAVE to use them. If they weren't there, folks would complain that it was to hard to get around. Can't make everyone happy. :)

 

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 7:43:36 PM#26
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Take a gameworld and fracture it into 20 plus pieces joined by spinning portals, then add quick travel and you pretty much kill all immersion.  Shame too since parts of this game look really nice, but each zone is like visiting a musem or going to a movie, the world just doesnt seem connected in any way.

i can see that as well.. each zone is almost a little "world" inside itself in a way(but you could say that about most zoned games even ones with "seamless" zoning).. while as a whole I can see it killing immersion for some when actually in a zone and running around it's still the most immersive PVE experience I have had in a MMO in a very very long time

Cant argue I had a blast and still visit GW2 now and then, Im still searching though for a totally immersive game experience, if only AV knew what to do the original DF.

I too would enjoy a MMO where huge events went on that effected the entire "world" and such and felt everything was connected as everything could have an effect on anything type setup. but overall i still find playing around in gw2 zones far more immersive than any other recent themepark in how npcs react and behave and how the event system plays out.. but obviouslly its all personal preference.. obviouslly instant ports kill it for some others can overlook this or not even notice because of how the zones draw you in when you are actually playing in them.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

2/28/13 7:54:03 PM#27
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Take a gameworld and fracture it into 20 plus pieces joined by spinning portals, then add quick travel and you pretty much kill all immersion.  Shame too since parts of this game look really nice, but each zone is like visiting a musem or going to a movie, the world just doesnt seem connected in any way.

i can see that as well.. each zone is almost a little "world" inside itself in a way(but you could say that about most zoned games even ones with "seamless" zoning).. while as a whole I can see it killing immersion for some when actually in a zone and running around it's still the most immersive PVE experience I have had in a MMO in a very very long time

Cant argue I had a blast and still visit GW2 now and then, Im still searching though for a totally immersive game experience, if only AV knew what to do the original DF.

I too would enjoy a MMO where huge events went on that effected the entire "world" and such and felt everything was connected as everything could have an effect on anything type setup. but overall i still find playing around in gw2 zones far more immersive than any other recent themepark in how npcs react and behave and how the event system plays out.. but obviouslly its all personal preference.. obviouslly instant ports kill it for some others can overlook this or not even notice because of how the zones draw you in when you are actually playing in them.

I have kind of a wierd perspective on things, when I'm in an MMO I think about my location in the gameworld and how I came to be at that spot.  I also think about where I can go from here and what area is over the next horizon.  I imagine riding to it and see it rolling out in front of me and ridng on to the edge of the world until I hit the ocean.  When Im in portaled zone all I think about is there is really nothing over the horizon this is it.    Thats just me though, I guess I look at MMO's from a larger top down perspetive rather than just what I can see at that moment.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

2/28/13 7:59:43 PM#28
Originally posted by FlawSGI
 Sorry you feel that way OP. I personally have no problem with immersion and TBH I find myslef lost in the game at times when I play. The only things that I feel it lacks that makes it less immersive are weather effects and a real day and night cycle. Other than that the sounds, environment, and world feel more alive than any other game I have beena part of. While I can say I am underwhelmed by a few things in the game, immersion isn't one for me. Oh and the fast travel also takes me a step back as far as immersion but I only feel the disconnect when I am zone hopping, not when hitting an area and going for the exploration.

Wow I actually never noticed there was no day night cycle, I actually thought I remembered areas where it was night, maybe Im wrong.

  drbaltazar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7937

2/28/13 7:59:49 PM#29
For immersion?its born or char (most of the even going on are in those racial zone.also remember this,the event taking place right now are split in 4 part we had the first one ,small number of people coming from somewhere ,everybody is mum.not saying a freaking word.(yes that is the mood ,analyze what is going on and you feel their fear.some are wounded etc .sprak to everybody ,why?because there will not be many that want to even bother with your stupid question(that's the mood I felt.)(norn side)it might have changed since they just released the second part of these event.but it took a long time for me to find someone bold enough to actually just speak to me.no its not a bug everybody is scared shitless and their to scared to even mention that terror just in case it follow them.dont sweat it ,there is a nice story line and so far both are good .char is more chaotic.norn is more emotional.i think.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 8:00:51 PM#30
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by FlawSGI
 Sorry you feel that way OP. I personally have no problem with immersion and TBH I find myslef lost in the game at times when I play. The only things that I feel it lacks that makes it less immersive are weather effects and a real day and night cycle. Other than that the sounds, environment, and world feel more alive than any other game I have beena part of. While I can say I am underwhelmed by a few things in the game, immersion isn't one for me. Oh and the fast travel also takes me a step back as far as immersion but I only feel the disconnect when I am zone hopping, not when hitting an area and going for the exploration.

Wow I actually never noticed there was no day night cycle, I actually thought I remembered areas where it was night, maybe Im wrong.

there very much IS a day and night cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUrBT5Gt0w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrsJbsq4Qs

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  drbaltazar

Novice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7937

2/28/13 8:12:03 PM#31
Lol there is day and night.i think it follow real life 24 hour cycle but I was too busy not dying to notice what the exact timing is or where .but there is a nite cycle .some are it snow like a bitch other it rain its insane.other the air is so poisonous you can almost feel it.hopefully tbo arenanet will tell us what color profile they recommend how to specifically do it to make sure it work proper.it is the main issue I got.something in windows is bugging srgb color profile.i think it is the permission system interaction between the various program and window color system the issue.like the game isn't surprised to access something in wcs or srgb.anyway maybe ms will fix or tell user how to set up screen gpu and wcs for optimal quality and performance.
  darkhalf357x

Elite Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1083

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

2/28/13 8:24:28 PM#32

Interesting topic OP that I have battled myself.  The world itself is beautiful and is immersive from an environment perspective.  Its the only game where I dont feel the need to open my map and enjoy just running freely seeing what I can get into.  But thats where the immersion stops for me.

The charactization of the NPCs just feel one dimensional, almost as if they didnt (fully) commit to convincing me that they were part of the world.  The dialogue and speech component play a part as well.  It is disappointing to find a new town and to speak to the NPCs and get a generic 'Hi'  Now to be fair this is common across most MMOs (WoW, EQ2, etc) - its just that I was expecting more exposition of the story through the NPCs.  

One game that did this very well was Skyrim.  They conveyed a sense of lore and drama that allowed true immersion in the world.  GW2 doesnt have to go to THAT level but something closer to it would make it a better experience for me.

I know the manifesto, but I still believe some sense of progression is missing.  I dont want the vertical gear grind but as I level my level 28 warrior I don't have that sense of accomplishment that I have with other MMOs.  I truly feel like I'm playing an arcade RPG (which is unique in and of itself).  I feel as close to my character as I did to playing Mega Man in Mega Man 1 (with RPG attribute management).

I dont hate the game.  I dont think its 'broken'.  Just not a title I can settle into which is what I'm looking for. I do logon once ever 2-3 weeks or when I hear about a patch (like the Feb 26th one).

Hoping they get closer to what I enjoy as it has all the base components to do so.

  FlawSGI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1387

All of history is a lie. The truth depends on who does the listening, and who does the telling...

2/28/13 8:28:27 PM#33
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by FlawSGI
 Sorry you feel that way OP. I personally have no problem with immersion and TBH I find myslef lost in the game at times when I play. The only things that I feel it lacks that makes it less immersive are weather effects and a real day and night cycle. Other than that the sounds, environment, and world feel more alive than any other game I have beena part of. While I can say I am underwhelmed by a few things in the game, immersion isn't one for me. Oh and the fast travel also takes me a step back as far as immersion but I only feel the disconnect when I am zone hopping, not when hitting an area and going for the exploration.

Wow I actually never noticed there was no day night cycle, I actually thought I remembered areas where it was night, maybe Im wrong.

there very much IS a day and night cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUrBT5Gt0w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrsJbsq4Qs

Yeah but I came from a game like FFXI where it was more common and noticeable. Also play Dragons Dogma and you will see how it is more prevalent. I know they said that there would be cycles and weapons had enchants that would depend on day or night cycles but they aren't very noticeable. I wasn't saying they didn't exist in the game, only they were very lacking based on games I have played in the past that got it right. When I said "real day and night cycle" I was meaning one you can set your game watch to. 

RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  Kuinn

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 1974

2/28/13 8:35:26 PM#34
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Kuinn
 

 

I opened map to check on where the story location was, and then clicked on the nearest waypoint and: boom - the immersion switch got turned off. 

Note my comment above. Don't use that waypoints if it is making the game bad for you. They put them there for our convenience, not so you HAVE to use them. If they weren't there, folks would complain that it was to hard to get around. Can't make everyone happy. :)

 

I wish I could just ignore features like they were not there, but I cant just block them out from my mind. I dont like waypoints but it feels stupid not using them, instead running and "wasting time" for nothing. I dont get any sense of accomplishment for running everywhere when I know I can at any point simply click there, locations dont feel distant when the option to click my self to the point is available.

 

Kinda like if raiders could just pick the raid loot without actually doing the raid (for comparison). I mean they could choose to not pick the loot without doing the raid, and grind it away and get it in the traditional way, but at any point if they wish they could just pick it up for a small fee.

 

The raid rewards would not feel very rewarding at all when you know you can just pick them up at any point. Perhaps a bad comparison, but I like traveling in mmorpgs and I think in principle it would be a similar scenario even if it's in completely different part of the game.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 8:35:45 PM#35
Originally posted by FlawSGI
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by snapfusion
Originally posted by FlawSGI
 Sorry you feel that way OP. I personally have no problem with immersion and TBH I find myslef lost in the game at times when I play. The only things that I feel it lacks that makes it less immersive are weather effects and a real day and night cycle. Other than that the sounds, environment, and world feel more alive than any other game I have beena part of. While I can say I am underwhelmed by a few things in the game, immersion isn't one for me. Oh and the fast travel also takes me a step back as far as immersion but I only feel the disconnect when I am zone hopping, not when hitting an area and going for the exploration.

Wow I actually never noticed there was no day night cycle, I actually thought I remembered areas where it was night, maybe Im wrong.

there very much IS a day and night cycle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUrBT5Gt0w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgrsJbsq4Qs

Yeah but I came from a game like FFXI where it was more common and noticeable. Also play Dragons Dogma and you will see how it is more prevalent. I know they said that there would be cycles and weapons had enchants that would depend on day or night cycles but they aren't very noticeable. I wasn't saying they didn't exist in the game, only they were very lacking based on games I have played in the past that got it right. When I said "real day and night cycle" I was meaning one you can set your game watch to. 

its noticable to me but also depends what zone you are in as some it's a lot more noticable than others.. but as most themepark MMOs it does really serve no purpose aside from the aesthetics it adds.. unlike games like skyrim for example where stores are closed at night and such but honestly i think doing stuff like that would make people mad more than anything as in skyrim you can at least rest and move time along as you please in a MMO you wouldn't be able to do that

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  acidblood

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/06
Posts: 230

2/28/13 8:45:23 PM#36

I've found this as well... but for me it's not the world (one of the best IMO), but rather the character customisation, or lack there of. Now I know there is a fair choice of gear, traits, runes, etc. but I'm level 42 now and have been casting the same spells since level 5 with little to no noticable difference in the way fights play out.

Sure there are moments here or there where a proc goes off (and I notice it), but compared pretty much any other MMO (Rift, TSW, GW1, WoW (pre panda), even Aion) my character just feels static, there is no growth, there is no "man I can't wait to hit level X'. I'm aware that I could try using different weapons, or support skills, but honestly the load out I've got now is best I've found (out of all class / weapon combos) to fit my playstyle.

Don't get me wrong, I like GW2, it's fun and the dynamic events are big step up for the usual 'quest hub' style, but in terms of character customisation and growth, I'm sorry but their system is a total failure.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 8:51:46 PM#37
Originally posted by acidblood

I've found this as well... but for me it's not the world (one of the best IMO), but rather the character customisation, or lack there of. Now I know there is a fair choice of gear, traits, runes, etc. but I'm level 42 now and have been casting the same spells since level 5 with little to no noticable difference in the way fights play out.

Sure there are moments here or there where a proc goes off (and I notice it), but compared pretty much any other MMO (Rift, TSW, GW1, WoW (pre panda), even Aion) my character just feels static, there is no growth, there is no "man I can't wait to hit level X'. I'm aware that I could try using different weapons, or support skills, but honestly the load out I've got now is best I've found (out of all class / weapon combos) to fit my playstyle.

Don't get me wrong, I like GW2, it's fun and the dynamic events are big step up for the usual 'quest hub' style, but in terms of character customisation and growth, I'm sorry but their system is a total failure.

guess it depends how you play.. if you stick to the same weapons then sure of course.. but if yuo playl ike me and swap weapon sets every couple levels along with completely changing out your traits and gear at that time as well it changes how your character can play completely.. yes you will be pushing buttons and watch things die as in every game out there.. but how you do it you actually have a ton of variety especially once you get more traits unlocked.. I gave examples in other threads but I have changed my mesmer playstyle every 10 or so levels and made a totally differn't playstyle from direct damage focus to conditions with numerous ways to use my illusions with numerous skills that have several effects and sometimes even more when traited.. I at first thought the system was pretty shallow until I got more into it and started changing up my playstyle with differn't sets of weapons based on a certain style of play...

honestly i have more styles of "play" in this game than most any other MMO where you have the option of 100s of skills but basically they all play out the exact same

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Treabhair

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 20

2/28/13 8:55:54 PM#38

I have to agree. I love ANet, and GW2 is still probably one of my top pics when it comes to MMOs currently on the market, but the different areas do feel very disconnected from eachother. As another poster said, like movies or exhibits, worlds of their own disconnected from the areas around them.

And this has nothing to do with zoning or map travel for me. I thought GW1 was very immersive despite being heavily instanced and having even less restrictive traveling options. Agreeing with someone else again, I also thought FFXI did an excellent job of creating an immersive game world despite the zones in place.

I really can't place why GW2 feels the way that it does to me in this regard.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/28/13 8:58:32 PM#39
Originally posted by Treabhair

I have to agree. I love ANet, and GW2 is still probably one of my top pics when it comes to MMOs currently on the market, but the different areas do feel very disconnected from eachother. As another poster said, like movies or exhibits, worlds of their own disconnected from the areas around them.

And this has nothing to do with zoning or map travel for me. I thought GW1 was very immersive despite being heavily instanced and having even less restrictive traveling options. Agreeing with someone else again, I also thought FFXI did an excellent job of creating an immersive game world despite the zones in place.

I really can't place why GW2 feels the way that it does to me in this regard.

odd gw1 was completely unimmersive imho it was basically a lobby game.. was one of the main things I disliked about it.. strange how differn't peoples perspectives can be

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2066

First came pride, then envy.

2/28/13 9:49:33 PM#40

The portals and waypoints ruin the immersion for me too, but only for traveling.  The immersive aspects, such as, NPC chatter, environmental sounds, depth of scenery, armor/weapons detail, are all amazing.

Hardanger, you mentioned, world design, character models, UI.., but i disagree with all your points.

  • World design is subjective, but most reviews mention the amazing attention to details and immersion.
  • Character models are good too.  They have their story, paths, voiceovers, etc.
  • UI is debatable, but still, it's a minimal design and not intrusive on your monitor's real estate.
I'm just trying to understand how you feel these points aren't immersive.  Care to compare them to other MMOs?
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