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General Gaming  » P2P, F2P and B2P, does it really matter?

19 posts found
  Cod_Eye

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1010

 
OP  2/28/13 4:16:14 PM#1

So a new MMO comes along and has everything you expect from an MMO, does the model its built on make that final decision for you?

For me it does,

F2P - I've tried plenty of f2p models and I always come up against a restriction to gameplay of some sort or another, congratulations you have reached level X and now must open you wallet to do this or that, or to join a group you must have XXXX from the cash shop to be able to do X dungeon or raid which you need to buy from the cash shop (RoM anyone?).  I want the sword of immortal beings, oh wait I need to buy or sub to unlock the monetary cap to be able to buy it, looking at you SWtoR, yes I lost a lot of ingame currency to that restriction.

B2P- Only games I can comment on is GW2 and GW1, GW1 I enjoyed, GW2 just felt so shallow, but the game is fun I keep hearing, not for me, I was hyped along with many players for this game, I was sold to the manifesto and all the prerelease information, I defended Anet and dismissed the naysayers.  My hands are up I got it wrong.  Restrictions are in its RNG, making the game very grindy if you are aming for legendary, not my cup of tea, but I do have respect that many players enjoy it.

P2P- Now when I first seen games like WoW, EQ, and FFXI on the shelf at my local game store many years ago, I thought to myself, what a cheek, asking customers to buy a game then having them pay to play the game, and for a while as much as these games looked very interesting my head was saying no, why do you want to pay to play a game?  I eventually caved in and bought FFXI with no knowledge of the MMO market, and wow I was sucked in to a new world. Back in those days the subscription was justified by the costs of the bandwidth companies had to pay for, today not so much.  But if a game has so much content and items you can obtain in game that you would otherwise be paying for in cashshop games, then I think it is very well justified plus the added content update and customer service which many F2P games lack.

 

Personally I don't touch F2P games anymore, If a game has everything that I expect then I'd rather pay a sub and support a game that way, than have to open my wallet to advance or keep up with other players.

Some reasons I think many games recently have gone F2P from a P2P model.  Obvious one is lack of subscribers, but why did they have a lack of subscribers?  setting a target audiance to high? possibly, trying to compete against WoW instead of creating something unique? who knows.  What did WoW, EQ, FFXI and UO have that made them successful? admittedly the market is saturated with MMO's these days but those games have held on to to a successful P2P model for yrs.  Other reasons I think may have some contribution to not holding players interest:-

Lack of content.

No Journey (1- cap in less than a month)

Housing, players like housing, it is a world where your character lives.

Softened up, mobs are to easy, world is to easy to navigate, players don't need to use their brain.

open world competition, humans are naturally competitive, hard world bosses need to be living in the open world not hidden in an instance,  I enjoy competing for claim and hope on a good drop.

Admittedly some are subjective, but they are what I enjoyed.

  User Deleted
2/28/13 4:17:45 PM#2

Yes.  More people = added value.

 

  Cod_Eye

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1010

 
OP  2/28/13 4:22:08 PM#3
Originally posted by jdnyc

Yes.  More people = added value.

 

So you saying a game with 1 mil players is better than a game with 400k players?  I'd have to disagree on that, game content and how that content is implimented is a better game imo.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1197

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

2/28/13 4:24:54 PM#4

 

Hmm... When I look at new MMOs these days personally, it being F2P or B2P are big sellers for me.  This is mainly because I already have about five active subscriptions (not counting the ones I pay for my girlfriend), and the ability to pay what I want, when I want to support a company is more appealing to me.  It has got to the point where I feel my characters are being held for ransom on subscription based games.

If I don't pay the subscriptions, I feel as though I wasted X amount of time leveling that character that I no longer have access to, and will never have access to again if I suddenly decide I don't want to pay monthly fees for game.  At least single player games I still have the game, and the same goes for B2P and P2P ones (for as long as MMOs are online).  Thus, I will not even give P2P the time of day anymore simply because I fear (rare as it is for MMOs to be great nowadays) it would be good and another $30 will be dedicated to that bill (this time counting my better half).

Though this is just from someone who pays for and plays so many MMOs per month and not just dedicated to one.  I'm sure I would prefer a P2P game if I played only one (minus feeling like it's being held for ransom at this point).  Though with the market today, I believe most play (or at least would like to so as to broaden their horizon and experience new things) several games at once, and thus prefer pay when you're able type of support models.  At least, to support the genre as a whole, this would be the ideal case (as then everyone would just stick with one such as WoW, leaving the others out in the dust... which is also a problem when it comes to P2P games where people can't try it for themselves).

Edit:  Not to mention, that if my girlfriend plays with me, even if she doesn't buy anything, I probably will when I have spare cash.  This is because that she's there, and some of my other friends can try out the game for free as well.  Thus, having more players in a game adds more value to it as a whole (since MMOs are, as a whole, social aspects; seeing empty cities won't exactly encourage me to buy from the cash shop or pay a subscription).

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  newchemicals

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/06
Posts: 43

2/28/13 4:30:10 PM#5

It matters to me, F2P end up being a huge ad with pop-ups wanting you to spend money. I vote with my wallet, I'll stick to P2P games and never ever spend a dime on F2P games, just hog up server space and bandwidth on F2P games.

  DarthMajin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/08
Posts: 92

2/28/13 4:36:21 PM#6
I don't really care for the F2P games in genreal. I have only ever found one that I like, which is STO. Not restrictive in what you can do for no money, and I tend to give them chunks here and there. As far as B2P only game I ever touched was GW1. I have pre-ordered Defiance, which is B2P. As far as P2P goes, only game I ever could justify with $15 a month was EVE Online and SWG. My big problem with P2P is most now have cash shops as well. So not only are you required to pay the monthly fee but then they get ya with the cash shop too. Until something better comes along STO will be good enough for me as a free player that give money a few times a year.

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2673

2/28/13 4:37:53 PM#7
Originally posted by newchemicals

It matters to me, F2P end up being a huge ad with pop-ups wanting you to spend money. I vote with my wallet, I'll stick to P2P games and never ever spend a dime on F2P games, just hog up server space and bandwidth on F2P games.

Problem is that there are very few P2P MMOs left now. WoW, EvE and Rift are one of the very few holding on to the P2P model. WoW and EvE are very successful and I don't see them going F2P but Rift might be heading that way.

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

2/28/13 4:40:35 PM#8
If the games sucks, it doesn't matter. If the game is mediocre (as so many have been lately) then F2P or B2P seems to be the least bad route. But I and many others have no problem paying a sub for a "good" MMO, it is just there have been all too few of those these last 6-8 years. And most people are not willing to pay a sub for a game not worthy of it anymore.
  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1197

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

2/28/13 4:42:04 PM#9
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by newchemicals

It matters to me, F2P end up being a huge ad with pop-ups wanting you to spend money. I vote with my wallet, I'll stick to P2P games and never ever spend a dime on F2P games, just hog up server space and bandwidth on F2P games.

Problem is that there are very few P2P MMOs left now. WoW, EvE and Rift are one of the very few holding on to the P2P model. WoW and EvE are very successful and I don't see them going F2P but Rift might be heading that way.

I would definitely play Rift again if it dropped it's Sub. fee personally.  I went back for their expansion, but ended up quiting again as I just have too many subscriptions as is.  :(

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

2/28/13 4:54:30 PM#10

F2P-I see it as an opportunity to try the game with no obligation

P2P-Will only try it if it has a free trial or I have seen someone play it in person....I will never pay for a game blindly again

B2P-Same as P2P...Nowadays there are jsut too many free options out there to pay for games unless I really like them.....

     My basic theory is if you wait long enough it will be either much cheaper or free.....I wait at least 6 months and often much longer before looking at a game after launch...I could care less about being the best, first, or most powerful.....The payment model is important to me now but mainly because I jsut haven't played a game in a long time that was worth paying much money for.

 

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1197

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

2/28/13 4:59:41 PM#11
Originally posted by Theocritus

F2P-I see it as an opportunity to try the game with no obligation

P2P-Will only try it if it has a free trial or I have seen someone play it in person....I will never pay for a game blindly again

B2P-Same as P2P...Nowadays there are jsut too many free options out there to pay for games unless I really like them.....

 

I'm the same way as this, essentially Though I have a rule against playing new P2P games due to having too many of them already).  Though I might be willing to get B2P just as a impulse buy if it looks interesting enough.  Mainly because I enjoy being there when it is released and get high level characters so that I can help friends and people who need it.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1564

3/01/13 1:35:53 AM#12

As other's have said, it's the quality of the game. The problem is, not many P2P games over the past number of years were worth of cost of a sub, imo. Many have gone F2P/Freemium, or B2P.

I think the biggest issue that mmos are going to face is that so many games now have online options, and many of them have some persistence to them as well. With so many games having free online gameplay options, why devote yourself to a mmo? Online multiplay isn't unique to mmos, neither are the social elements, but many are still designed with purposeful carrot-on-a-stick mechanics to keep you playing.

I imagine that more B2P style mmos will become prevalent over the next few years. We've already seen a considerable shift away from the P2P model. The general game market is shifting considerably as well, where completely single player games are becoming more rare for the PC (and console markets too). Where always online DRM is becoming the norm, and even games like the upcomming reboot of SimCity have multiplayer and social options on the global scale.

Where does this leave P2P mmos? Well, they will need to adapt or die. Less and less people see the value in blindly paying a sub, especially when other titles are delivering similar amounts of content. Future mmos, who will to use a sub model, are going to need to really shine and offer something unique. Otherwise, someone else will do the same thing just as well, and for less price.

  JimmyYO

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/11
Posts: 541

3/01/13 1:39:27 AM#13
I think it matters. At least P2P forces developers to care about the overall game instead of the popular toys.
  drchocapic

Novice Member

Joined: 6/19/05
Posts: 27

3/01/13 1:47:29 AM#14
I the game is good (and I mean really good not fanboy-rose-colored-glasses good) then I have no problem paying a sub for it. The problem being that we haven't seen a really good MMO in a long while.
  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1197

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

3/01/13 6:18:16 PM#15
Originally posted by JimmyYO
I think it matters. At least P2P forces developers to care about the overall game instead of the popular toys.

The payment model doesn't really have an influence on this.  In fact, if you're set income is already coming in and not based on content to keep you playing, the company may find themselves only updating every six months as opposed to more frequently to keep people playing and wanting to buy cash shop items.  Though it's only with recent games where this has been shown with their monthly patches, in addition to some of the more popular games in the future all saying the same thing of the B2P and F2P Model.  It may be marketing rhetoric, but a hardcore fan of a game (WoW fans, for instance) will mostly be paying the sub even if there are infrequent updates that only hold a single raid update.  It's also because of WoW (and other factors) that most games that go the P2P route end up going F2P within the year.  Thus, it may be best to build a game from the ground up to be updated frequently and have people pay what they want as opposed to going against P2P Behemoths.

 

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5670

3/01/13 6:20:32 PM#16

It doesn't really matter to me.  I'm subscribed to Tera right now because it's a good sub.

What matter to me is if a game is sub-locked or sub-free.  I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

3/01/13 6:26:01 PM#17
Originally posted by Cod_Eye

 

So you saying a game with 1 mil players is better than a game with 400k players?  I'd have to disagree on that, game content and how that content is implimented is a better game imo.

Agree

I'll play any game as long as there is a guild of 10+ nice active members, what do I care if the game has 5000 subs or 5 million, jumping on bandwagons is weak and for lemmings. 

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  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1197

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

3/01/13 6:27:37 PM#18
Originally posted by Torvaldr

What matter to me is if a game is sub-locked or sub-free.  I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore.

This is probably a good way to express how new P2P games make me feel at the moment, especially with the amount I already have active.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  Yaevindusk

Elite Member

Joined: 9/05/10
Posts: 1197

Logic, reason and fact do not supersede human nature. Ignorance reigns without justice.

3/01/13 6:35:02 PM#19
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by Cod_Eye

 

So you saying a game with 1 mil players is better than a game with 400k players?  I'd have to disagree on that, game content and how that content is implimented is a better game imo.

Agree

I'll play any game as long as there is a guild of 10+ nice active members, what do I care if the game has 5000 subs or 5 million, jumping on bandwagons is weak and for lemmings. 

 

I believe the original point was that everyone who logs into a game adds value to it.  In that, as a person taking up that virtual space, they will make friends and their friends will make friends, and they will all pass word of mouth to their other friends.  With every friend you make in game, you are less likely to leave it and mroe likely to spend more money as you're more dedicatd to the game in general.

You could think of it as seeing a town that has people in it, versus a town that's completely empty with no one talking at all.  Put in real life application, say you're a hipster of sorts and want to go to a hipster bar or club.  Will an uncool club that has absolutely no one in it, along with inactive bartenders, attract you to go there or spend more than five minutes there?  Or will people who are there and social, having the same common interests (in subjects/drink/food) that the club servers, have you feel like you're in the right place to make you want to stay for hours, day after day, and order several drinks as well as the occassional meal?

That's not even taking into account if you make some friends there that refuse to go anywhere else (each of whom add value to that club as each friend they make with have another reason to stay with that club).  Before you know it, you're that same person who makes more friends, and you don't want to leave because your friends are here and that's where you feel you belong.

When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.