Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Its sad to see this side of the mmorpg.com community. Bashing games and devs when all we have is the core mechanics. We know nothing about how they plan to play out this 3 faction war or how in plays into the story and game they have designed. Here we are snap judgment as we do here and yell fail and wrong before we know a lick of info on the details. That in the face of the fact every time a new MMO comes out with a 2 sided PvP game we all yell, DONT YOU KNOW FOR GOOD PvP YOU NEED 3 FACTIONS!!!!! We get that and we judge again.

Give the devs time to prove this is the game we want. Have some faith the game has been designed from the ground up with this 3 faction war in mind. That their plan is not to have PvE be some afterthought. They have been working 6 years on this project and they are not sticking TES IP on a DAoC skin, I have read how they are handling the lore and thats not the feel I get from that at all. The lore fits well with the races at war as they do hate eachother and oppress eachother when they are not killing eachother. Seems most of the threads here like to predict doom and gloom and yell fail, why are we like that as gamers and as a MMO community? Shame on us!

So it's okay for fans to get hyped up about a title and talk about how much they are going to love it but it's not okay for people to say they don't like the direction they are going?

If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?

Taking away freedom of faction choice and exploration is enough for me to judge personally, they are important features to me.  I'm a little sketchy on the combat and class systems as well but I don't know enough about them to judge so I haven't said anything yet.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by sapphen

I said it makes sense to 'compare' a SP to a MMO.  You can't say that ESO had to have faction locks because it is a MMO.  There are many things from TES that would've translated to a MMO.  That is all.

I did not say this should be a co-op game or like SWTOR.

Well no, however it does work well in an MMO. IMO though its irrelevant wether its a right or wrong decision. It's how well its implemented.

Sure it works great in a MMO.  I enjoyed DAoC, GW2, TSW and look forward to CU but I do not think it would work in a TES game.   To me, it doesn't matter how well it's implemented, they took away what defined Elder Scrolls for me personally.

I respect that we don't see eye to eye.  I'm not trying to convince you change your opinion, I'm only stating mine.  Thank you keeping this conversation civil.

I like how on this forum people have to thank one another for being civil. :)

I think being a huge fan of the Warcraft RTS games and Blizzard changing my Warcraft experience for something different, I'm willing to give Zenimax a chance.

Giving fans of the IP something new and different.

The thing with Blizzard though it doesn't look like I will be getting any more Warcraft RTS games. ES will still be releasing SPRPG's.

I admit there are some haters of ESO that take things too far (same for the fans).  I am not a 'hater of games'.  The only games I've had a falling out with are Rift and SWTOR, both of which had to do with customer support issues.  Even then I didn't go around posting a bunch of threads on the matter.

I have no problem with many of the systems of ESO.  If it would've been another IP, I would've supported this game.  To me this issue is bigger than just one game.  MMOs has been declining in substance, imo.  They are too focused on how people define the genre and what would make the most money instead of just making an enjoyable game (or properly representing the IP in ESO's case).

Originally posted by immodium

Originally posted by sapphen

Sure it works great in a MMO.  I enjoyed DAoC, GW2, TSW and look forward to CU but I do not think it would work in a TES game.   To me, it doesn't matter how well it's implemented, they took away what defined Elder Scrolls for me personally.

I respect that we don't see eye to eye.  I'm not trying to convince you change your opinion, I'm only stating mine.  Thank you keeping this conversation civil.

I like how on this forum people have to thank one another for being civil. :)

I think being a huge fan of the Warcraft RTS games and Blizzard changing my Warcraft experience for something different, I'm willing to give Zenimax a chance.

Giving fans of the IP something new and different.

The thing with Blizzard though it doesn't look like I will be getting any more Warcraft RTS games. ES will still be releasing SPRPG's.

Oh man you just don't know!  I've had hateful messages sent to me from anonymous emails, been called names, strawman'd out the ass, and just recently I had someone wish for my physical passing.

To me, going from RTS to RPG is a huge leap, it just doesn't compare a SP-RPG going to MMORPG.  Both have open worlds, stat system, weapons, etc. - well you get the drift.  Even Oblivion was considered an 'offline MMO' because of the similarities.  I do respect that you are giving Zenimax the benefit of the doubt, in that way you are bigger than I.

I don't think they are giving us something new and different... well maybe new and different from the TES series but many of the systems they are advertising are just 'generic MMO systems' with a twist (imo). 

I'm happy to know that we will see future TES games (and I wouldn't put it past blizzard  to rehash Warcraft RTS in the future, you just never know with all the games going to tablets/phones).

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Its sad to see this side of the mmorpg.com community. Bashing games and devs when all we have is the core mechanics. We know nothing about how they plan to play out this 3 faction war or how in plays into the story and game they have designed. Here we are snap judgment as we do here and yell fail and wrong before we know a lick of info on the details. That in the face of the fact every time a new MMO comes out with a 2 sided PvP game we all yell, DONT YOU KNOW FOR GOOD PvP YOU NEED 3 FACTIONS!!!!! We get that and we judge again.

Give the devs time to prove this is the game we want. Have some faith the game has been designed from the ground up with this 3 faction war in mind. That their plan is not to have PvE be some afterthought. They have been working 6 years on this project and they are not sticking TES IP on a DAoC skin, I have read how they are handling the lore and thats not the feel I get from that at all. The lore fits well with the races at war as they do hate eachother and oppress eachother when they are not killing eachother. Seems most of the threads here like to predict doom and gloom and yell fail, why are we like that as gamers and as a MMO community? Shame on us!

So it's okay for fans to get hyped up about a title and talk about how much they are going to love it but it's not okay for people to say they don't like the direction they are going?

If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?

Dear forum user Nanfoodle,

For your use of sound reasoning and logic within this forum, you have been issued a warning and have been penalized 5 internet points.

Please refrain from being reasonable in these forums.  Furthermore, do not use your pragmatic outlook to get in the way of other's sermonizing and doom saying.

You have been warned.

Thank you and good day.

Originally posted by alterfenix

Originally posted by BadSpock

Very true, though I think it is ironic that I and others have to ASSUME about the PVE in TESO so much because all they are freaking advertising is the RvR...

In that case I believe it is also safe to assume one thing. Over past few years there was some kind of pressure from many players to create some MMORPG that has some meaningful RvR. Now as meaningful it is in TESO that remains to be seen. However with players wanting such game, PvE games no matter what being instantly called WoW clones and TESO happening to have RvR it is reasonable for them to give bigger deal of information on RvR while holding back info on PvE side of the game unless giving it is required or they are 100% certain it would help them in marketing.

Not saying that PvE will be any different from WoW or not. It is just how this business works and nothing else.

This is definitely a possibility.

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I don't know, this whole thing just seems like a bad idea to me. It's not Bethesda. It barely "feels" like an Elder Scrolls game to me yet.

I haven't bought any of the Skyrim DLC yet, but reading about Hearthfire and the other DLC was more exciting to me than reading anything about TESO.

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"

All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"

All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.

 Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?

Originally posted by Caliburn101

Originally posted by walltar
"TESO is not a true successor" Oh fuck ... this again. It is not successor at all ... there will by proper TES game done by bethesda. This is MMO set in TES universe with MMO mechanics. It is done by another company, by another people. Was wow true successor of Warcraft? Because last i chesked i did not see any basebuilding in there.

I do sympathise - but I intend to keep banging this drum in as non-bias a way as I can.

You'll see from the poll choices at least that despite my personal opinion, all options are available to vote on.

Not all options are available.

You should have added "None of the above"

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"

All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.

 Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?

The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".

Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.

Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"

All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.

 Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?

The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".

Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.

Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.

 No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"

All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.

 Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?

The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".

Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.

Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.

 No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.

Im going off memory. The article is probably far back in the archives. I dont have the time to go search it out

Originally posted by xer0skill
How about this for a change? If this isn't the game you were expecting, then don't play it. Go out and make the game you want to play, if you think it's so easy. Don't want to? Then why would you expect a company to do so? I'm personally excited for this game because it is an MMO set in a world I know and love. That's good enough for me. As much as I would like to see the MMO version of TES that I have dreamed of, I'm ok with settling for this (for now, anyways). As the tired saying goes, don't like it then don't buy it. What's that other one? If you want it done right, do it yourself.

How about this for a change - If you don't like what you're reading, then don't read it.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by BadSpock

But it's like they are trying to woo the MMO crowd with RvR and are leaving the ES fans out to dry just hoping they pick the game up because it's ES.

I'm almost wondering if this was their intention; making the game for MMO players and just hoping TES fans will like it because of the theme.  What they don't understand is most of the MMO crowd are also TES fans.  They could've just made a TES MMO instead of changing core elements for MMO players.

Firor doesnt give 2 sh!ts about ES fans. That was made clearly obvious by his comment "This is Elder Scrolls Online. If you want a real ES experience go play Skyrim"

All he has wanted to do over the last 10 years since he left Mythic is remake DAOC in his vision.

 Firor is awesome and its great to see dev's being that blunt. lol great comment from him. Where is the link?

The quote (not exact mind you) is from one of the articles on Massively when the game was first announced. I believe its the same article where he said "Housing is not possible in an MMORPG the way fans want it. Its too hard".

Its the article where he was constantly making excuses for why they are making ESO the way they are.

Not going to spend the next hour or so searching it out for you. Find it yourself.

 No need to get all pissy, if your going to quote people atleast give a link.

Im going off memory. The article is probably far back in the archives. I dont have the time to go search it out

If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?

Taking away freedom of faction choice and exploration is enough for me to judge personally, they are important features to me.  I'm a little sketchy on the combat and class systems as well but I don't know enough about them to judge so I haven't said anything yet.

Do you not see they have 3 sets of fans to deal with...

1. MMO fans who will want one of the winning models we have come to know and love over the past 15 years and games with PvP in them tend to make more money and the fact its a TES games is not what decides if they will play this game.

2. TES fans who like to explore and do so without getting attcked by players because thats not in their game they play now.

3. MMO fans who are TES fans as well, who will nit pick this game to death to try and make it fit their vision.

So what MMO model that will make them the most money and let the people from box 2 still live in the same pool as everyone else and not hate eachother? Because no MMO that wants to make it, plans on making money just from current MMO fans, they hope to make new MMO fans. 4 Maps, 1 for PvP, 1 for each faction is one that can make group 1 and 2 very happy. Group 3 will never be happy, so why try? There is always going to be people from group 3 upset no matter what way ya do it.

As suggested in this thread having one open world with PvP everywhere, one open world where you can chose to flag PvP (lots of jurks know how to force you to flag so they can kill you, just stand next to you killing NPCs and one AE spell and you get to kill them, one of many ways to do that) all this would make most players from pool 2 not happy as a new fan and that would make this game a fail. IMO ESO did the right model for the game. We from pool 3 here on this forum are only one third of the target but we think we should be 80% of what decides what goes where. Look at the poll we win!!!!! LOL Noooo sorry. 

I think they hit the nail on the head for this game with what model they picked and its one on many a MMO forum we PvP fans have been asking for, over and over again. Every new 2 faction game that comes out, lots of us keep saying... "Needs a 3rd faction. Pls look back to DAoC they did it right!!!" I think this will pull lots of people from pool 1 as well.

If they try and follow the 3rd pool, we will have a new game every week!!!! 

Originally posted by Maephisto

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Its sad to see this side of the mmorpg.com community. Bashing games and devs when all we have is the core mechanics. We know nothing about how they plan to play out this 3 faction war or how in plays into the story and game they have designed. Here we are snap judgment as we do here and yell fail and wrong before we know a lick of info on the details. That in the face of the fact every time a new MMO comes out with a 2 sided PvP game we all yell, DONT YOU KNOW FOR GOOD PvP YOU NEED 3 FACTIONS!!!!! We get that and we judge again.

Give the devs time to prove this is the game we want. Have some faith the game has been designed from the ground up with this 3 faction war in mind. That their plan is not to have PvE be some afterthought. They have been working 6 years on this project and they are not sticking TES IP on a DAoC skin, I have read how they are handling the lore and thats not the feel I get from that at all. The lore fits well with the races at war as they do hate eachother and oppress eachother when they are not killing eachother. Seems most of the threads here like to predict doom and gloom and yell fail, why are we like that as gamers and as a MMO community? Shame on us!

So it's okay for fans to get hyped up about a title and talk about how much they are going to love it but it's not okay for people to say they don't like the direction they are going?

If you really think you know enough to judge? At this point we know barely the core mechanics. We have no clue how they plan to execute this war. How can we pre judge yet? Because we know 1% of what there is to know?

Dear forum user Nanfoodle,

For your use of sound reasoning and logic within this forum, you have been issued a warning and have been penalized 5 internet points.

Please refrain from being reasonable in these forums.  Furthermore, do not use your pragmatic outlook to get in the way of other's sermonizing and doom saying.

You have been warned.

Thank you and good day.

My bad =-\

Originally posted by rygard49

If you don't have the time to google a quote and then copy/paste a link when someone asks for a citation, then don't use the quote. I've searched for it, word for word as quoted by you, and it isn't there. So now I'm curious what he really said, because it surely isn't what you've relayed in the posts above.

"We're making an MMO; we're unapologetic about that. This is the Elder Scrolls MMO. It's not Skyrim. Skyrim already exists, and you can go play Skyrim." - Matt Firor

That is the exact quote.