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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » In action combat games, why is Melee always the most underpowered combat style?

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33 posts found
  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

2/26/13 10:51:25 AM#21
Originally posted by coretex666

So many people insulting OP for asking a question. You can say that you disagree instead of calling him names.

Pathetic...

It's partly a matter of wording.

"Why is melee always underpowered" is much different than "What are some games where melee felt stronger than ranged classes?"  Both are asking the same underlying question, and yet the first question would provoke much more irritated responses.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

2/26/13 11:01:15 AM#22

The reason why melee is often underpowered is because melee has an inherent disadvantage, range. And since the range is usually so small it makes it even more profound due to lag (e.g. you seem to be in range but due to lag you are not). So in effect it makes it much harder for melees to hit a ranged class.

This can be addressed in a number of ways and usually it is by making ranged classes frail so if they do get hit, they get hit for a lot. However since melees can be tanks you cannot give them too much damage as that would make it hard to balance them if they both can take and deal a lot of damage. For rogue type classes this is not an issue because they are also frail so their damage is often through the roof.

However one thing that a lot of devs fail to take into account is that ranged ammo should be limited and once they run out they have no choice to go melee, which puts them at a significant disadvantage. Mages have a limited amount of mana but they usually dont run out in the middle of a fight so that is rarely an issue.

So how I would balance this is to make ranged attacks more limited, so you have to hit or you run out of ammo, that would give the advantage to melee, if they are skilled enough to avoid the attacks and if the ranged is not skilled enough to land his limited number of attacks.

Also, one thing that often annoys me when playing a melee is that it is so easy to run away from a melee by zig zagging, strafing etc. I personally prefer a system like in AC 1, which mean that once you closed the gap, the melee would stick to his target and it would be very difficult for the target to un-stick (unless he landed a root spell or something).

Finally something that few games do right is that it allows ranged classes to keep using ranged attacks while in melee range and altthough that should be possible, it should also be very prone to interrupts. Why? Because ranged attacks are done at range and requires a degree of concentration. You try to shoot someone with a bow when he is in melee range and swinging an axe at you, it is very difficult. Same with spells, it should require concentration to cast a spell, so again if a melee is swinging an axe at you it should make it much more difficult to get a spell of.

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1721

2/26/13 11:12:46 AM#23
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by MMOExposed

In games with more action combat, it always seem like Melee combat is underpowered to the ranged combat.

It places Melee at a huge disadvantage.

Takes the fun of playing a melee oriented charater. Usually force ranged specs on characters at al times to compete.

 

Melee armored knight is a popular role in RPG genre,

but in action combat games ranged beats melee.

 

So these two conflict with each other.

 

how can this issue be addressed?

Every game is like this.

 

Name me one in MMO in the last 15 years that had super powerful melee compared to caster classes.  It doesn't happen.

SWG

Pretty much all melee classes owned all of the range classes.  It always bugged that shyt out of me how a "fencer" using a night stick or a Tera Kasi (sp?) could wtf own pretty much any Master BH, Pistoleer, or Riflemen in pre-cu.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  g0m0rrah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 214

2/26/13 11:37:08 AM#24

 

Maybe melee is under powered in action mmo's due to how dominant they usually are in standard mmorpgs.  When I think back to DAOC and how easy it was to lock a mage or archer up, with a few instants, completely keeping them from using the things that make them what they are, i tend to think that melee has most of the advantages in PvP.  Warlocks could drop some instants in your face and get some distance to punish you a bit, but in all honesty I cant think of another ranged class that most melee classes didnt walk all over.

With the newer generations of mmorpg's im constantly reminded every single time i play that most melee classes with have atleast 1 ability that instantly teleports them in your face.  People love to moan about how ranged classes have range as an advantage but when the enemy can click a single button to counter your advantage, I simply do not understand the concept.

As far as action oriented MMO's are concerned, I still havnt seen many that fit the profile of "melee classes are weak".  Tera for example, I had no trouble playing my lancer.  Even in these action oriented games it seems that melee consists of two types, one deals tons of damage and the other has tons of crowd control.  I simply do not see any evidence to substantiate your accusations.  Maybe we are playing different games...

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

2/26/13 12:34:49 PM#25

It seems like since hte beginning of time this has been the formula:

Melee Fighters: High HP, low damage

Ranged fighters: Medium HP, medium damage

Magic Users: Low HP, high damage

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

2/26/13 6:28:27 PM#26
Originally posted by Theocritus

It seems like since hte beginning of time this has been the formula:

Melee Fighters: High HP, low damage

Ranged fighters: Medium HP, medium damage

Magic Users: Low HP, high damage

What games have you played which were remotely like this?  Most MMORPGs balance damage based on role (healer:low, tank:med, DPS:high) and it's entirely divorced from ranged vs. melee vs. hunters.  And then survivability is some separate sliding scale between durability (tanking damage) and avoidance (avoiding damage)

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

2/26/13 7:06:27 PM#27
Originally posted by Avison
So, I'll bite. First you make a sweeping accusation and present nil for examples. What games have this issue, what are you exlpicitely referring to, are you an idiot? These are just some questions other forum users might ask after clicking this thread.

This guy always posts stuff he already knows the answer to and just wants to get people to respond.  All his posts are the same formula.  Pretend your confused or need help and appear to be reaching out to the community.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5232

2/27/13 2:12:18 AM#28
If he does, then he is not the only one around here who does that, we are not known for our rational and considered opinions on this site. :)
  Adamantine

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3316

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

2/27/13 6:30:00 AM#29

Well, not in my MMO (Vanguard).

We only have one ranged class, the Ranger, and it certainly isnt superior to melee.

In fact its also a pretty decent melee class.

  skamper

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/05
Posts: 253

2/27/13 6:51:26 AM#30

There's a reason our human combat evolved from

 

Swords -> Bows / Crossbows / Siege -> Firearms / Cannons -> Modern

 

Ranged never has to "close the gap". Even if you made a sword 2x as a gun, people will still use the gun. Look at CoD. Knives one hit kill. Look at Counter Strike, etc etc etc. Now in MMOs they generally balance it out but the reason why ranged is always better is because they generally do not have to close the gap. Sure games like WoW are bringing more speed boosts and leaps to melee, but ranged will always have a slight advantage.

  CalmOceans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1815

2/27/13 6:52:09 AM#31
  CalmOceans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1815

2/27/13 6:53:18 AM#32
Originally posted by coretex666

So many people insulting OP for asking a question. You can say that you disagree instead of calling him names.

Pathetic...

he makes a new thread every day

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4115

2/27/13 7:00:28 AM#33

Please see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhlHzYt4xRM

 

Then please delete thread.

 

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Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

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