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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » Free 2 Play

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162 posts found
  Dogblaster

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

2/25/13 8:06:48 PM#41
Originally posted by Ghern

I thought I have read on this forum that there will be a free trial. I hope so. I have never played a FF game. I would like to try it out and am a big believer in sub based games promoting a better community.

I will not try it blindly though. I am not just throwing my money at SE hoping that I will like the product.

A free trial would be perfect.

There will be open beta for everyone (start of summer my guess). And those characters created in this last stage of beta wont be deleted after launch :)

Not sure about trial but I dont see reason why not.

  Snowdon_Cloudripper

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 604

I was a 5 star elite member but my awesomeness was showing and the Mods cant have that

2/25/13 8:47:48 PM#42

Ok i will post this again this is a direct quote from Yoshi-P himself  and you can find the link in the Final Fantasy XIV:ARR info thread its link #12

 

With A Realm Reborn, Yoshida is certainly playing a long game, but we asked him if – in a world now obsessed with the notion of free-to-play, sticking to a subscription model is a potential mistake waiting to happen.

He replied, “The main reason why we haven’t decided to take the free-to-play option is that, at the game’s original launch, it didn’t live up to expectations and it let down a lot of fans. We lost the trust of fans who had followed us across our 25-year history. We want to regain that trust and to deliver on past promises.

“One of the promises we originally stated was that we would release the game with a subscription model. Players will be able to play it 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days in the year if they paid a subscription fee. So to regain the trust of our players we must of course fulfil this promise. Right now we believe that to be more important than any kind of business decision.

“The other thing is that – depending on what kind of game you have – its hard to say which model is better. Is free-to-play better? Are subscriptions better? It just really depends, and it’s hard to say which one is better.

“The last thing is that our aim is to make an MMO, and a lot of companies do their development for MMOs by getting money from investors. Then the investors want their money back, so if the game doesn’t make enough money or doesn’t have enough users, then what do we do?

“We’d have to pay our investors back, and free-to-play is an option to get that money back to investors quickly. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn is a product that is independent to Square-Enix. All of the money’s coming from us, so we had more time to put it into what we wanted to do. We’re not in a rush to pay anyone back.”

 

 

Now What Yoshi is saying makes total sense , Take TERA was it or was it not Sub fee until the 5th of Febuary. Now ask was the game a success ? Now the game is F2P with a cash shop why do you think that is? Well if you take what Yoshi here said it means a game like TERA has investors who want there money and a fast track to pay off investors is a cash shop and a free game. A game going free IS NOT a good thing its a faild game so much so it is now Free. What is the difference between TERA and a FaceBook Game ....... Nothing there free to play and have a cash shop and are usualy really lame unless your female and spen 24/7 on farmville ( my wife is a great example of this )

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  Treabhair

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/13
Posts: 20

 
OP  2/25/13 9:53:49 PM#43

What I got out of it was that F2P is a quick way to make money, but they made a promise for a sub model and since they don't have investors knocking at their doors for a return on money spent, they can keep that original promise. No where does he insuate that f2p = poor quality. A poor quality f2p will do poorly monetarily after all. I currently play GW2 and while I'm not entirely happy with it, it's certainly not a bad game, and I've spent $25 on it in the 2 months I've played. I believe in Anet, especially after playing GW1, and though GW2 isn't where I would like it to be, I want to support the developer so that it might eventually make it there.

To me, it sounds as if Yoshida sees the F2P market as completely viable, even preferable if profits are what you're looking for. But as he said, the team made a promise to all the other pre ARR FFXIV players (which I was a part of from the beginning and while it remained free) that it would eventually come with a sub model. While I personally think that's a silly reason to keep it, I'm not Yoshida, and we come from entirely different cultures and generations to boot. But I do very much respect his dedication to the game...

... which is why I wish I could play and spend $25 within two months (if it is as good as I hope it is). But I quit FFXI because I couldn't enjoy it anymore, not because of the game, but because of the looming monthly subscription. It's like if facebook or your other favorite social media sites and forums decided to require you to subscribe to them. They're a great way to be irresponsible and put off things you should be doing and most of us anyways are guilty of doing just that from time to time, but would you pay to do so?

If subscriptions don't make you feel the same way, then great, I'm glad. But they just leave me with a bad feeling and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Certainly not if you simply take into account people who prefer f2p for their own reasons.

  aliton12

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/12
Posts: 20

2/26/13 1:28:12 AM#44
Nah ... Never happen F2P .... Final Fantasy XI been going good for long time ... It will be same.... I proimse you it never happen. 
  Dakeru

Elite Member

Joined: 9/21/09
Posts: 949

2/26/13 2:10:28 AM#45
Japanese are traditional and consider f2p dishonorable. It's just one of the many things, where they are unable to analyse the modern market, just like they did with the first version of FFXIV.
  Dogblaster

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

2/26/13 3:17:59 AM#46
Originally posted by Dakeru
Japanese are traditional and consider f2p dishonorable. It's just one of the many things, where they are unable to analyse the modern market, just like they did with the first version of FFXIV.

or maybe they are not that greedy like every other western model company :)

 

In this scenario. Traditional P2P is better than modern F2P. This goes for many many cases, not every modern thing in present means its automaticaly better than it was before. Some might say that world was better 20/30/80 years ago than it is now, etc. etc ..

And I think country as Japan with traditions is better than some modern state with his modern whatever crap :D

 

So I would rather play the game developed by traditional company where I am sure that they preserve their goals and promises .. than playing mmorpg developed by modern company and have to worry about every patch and change that breaks their promises just because modern NA/EU players want that change to happen. Due to ''I want everything for free and without effort mentality'' that NA/EU players usually have.

  Cod_Eye

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1012

2/26/13 5:08:06 AM#47

Creating games to suit everyone doesnt work imo, games should have some niche to attract and suit a particular crowd.  GW2 was the second coming, the sales pitch had everyone believing it was the game for them,  b2p, f2p call it what you like, but it never held the torch for many people for very long.

The OP says he has a family now and doesnt have the hours he spent in his younger days to play for long lengthy hrs at a time, neither do I and many other players, but I would still prefer the p2p model over f2p any day.  Even if I play a few hrs a week, thats still worth 10 - 15 bucks entertainment value knowing that I can obtain the full game and contents without competing with my wallet against those who have bigger wallets in the f2p model.  I bet my bottom dollar that a lot of gw2 players have spent more on gems and vanity items since release than they would have paid a monthly sub.

 

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1594

2/26/13 5:36:02 AM#48
Originally posted by Treabhair

What I got out of it was that F2P is a quick way to make money, but they made a promise for a sub model and since they don't have investors knocking at their doors for a return on money spent, they can keep that original promise. No where does he insuate that f2p = poor quality. A poor quality f2p will do poorly monetarily after all. I currently play GW2 and while I'm not entirely happy with it, it's certainly not a bad game, and I've spent $25 on it in the 2 months I've played. I believe in Anet, especially after playing GW1, and though GW2 isn't where I would like it to be, I want to support the developer so that it might eventually make it there.

To me, it sounds as if Yoshida sees the F2P market as completely viable, even preferable if profits are what you're looking for. But as he said, the team made a promise to all the other pre ARR FFXIV players (which I was a part of from the beginning and while it remained free) that it would eventually come with a sub model. While I personally think that's a silly reason to keep it, I'm not Yoshida, and we come from entirely different cultures and generations to boot. But I do very much respect his dedication to the game...

... which is why I wish I could play and spend $25 within two months (if it is as good as I hope it is). But I quit FFXI because I couldn't enjoy it anymore, not because of the game, but because of the looming monthly subscription. It's like if facebook or your other favorite social media sites and forums decided to require you to subscribe to them. They're a great way to be irresponsible and put off things you should be doing and most of us anyways are guilty of doing just that from time to time, but would you pay to do so?

If subscriptions don't make you feel the same way, then great, I'm glad. But they just leave me with a bad feeling and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Certainly not if you simply take into account people who prefer f2p for their own reasons.

Yoshi-P's "promise for a sub model" sounds like a tremendous cop-out reason. In the original quote he acknowledged that they lost the trust of many fans, but believing a sub model will regain trust is folly. I too am playing GW2, and while it does have issues, I've spent $40 on top of the box cost over the course of the past 6 months. I imagine that there are many others like me out there. However, if there was an associated sub cost to GW2, I might not have even gone back after taking a break initially. Even though $15 isn't a lot of money, it is still a bit of a barrier to many.

SE is quite obviously very out of touch with their western markets, which has been very vocal in their distrust of SE for awhile now. FFXIII isn't a particularly fondly remembered title, and FFXIV has left a terrible taste in many mouths. Adding a sub isn't going to be viewed as an act of trust, but as another attempt to do some cash grabbing. SE has fallen from grace, imo, and their titles aren't launch day purchases anymore.

I fully believe that their decision to attempt to run as a sub model isn't going to be well received with the general gaming community, and that they will have to turn to the B2P or F2P model within a year, that or limp along until a shut down. I hope I'm wrong, but history looks like it might be repeating.

  User Deleted
2/26/13 5:46:35 AM#49

-sighs- so much bias and ass sniffing, so little reason and logic...

Japan as a country isn't better than any other, Hell in some respects they're more fucked up ( try looking up cannibals currently living in Japan for shits and giggles... and then look up adult japanese gameshows).

 

Someone in the thread said you get what you paid for in P2P while in F2P you have to be a wallet warrior of sorts which tbh is true and false in two ways, firstly in bad P2P and bad F2P you're gonna be a wallet warrior either way and secondly and most importantly: a fool and his money are soon parted, it doesn't matter how or when, Hell you'll be hard pressed to find a P2P game out right now that doesn't have a cash shop in it already.

  pmw4friend

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/13
Posts: 62

even though all the adds might be against you, giving up is not an option.

2/26/13 6:19:25 AM#50
Idc if the game is FTP or PVP just as long as the game is good. If it's pvp and it sucks then F it! I lost my money but if it's pvp and it good then AWESOME! Now if it's FTP then WHATEVER!
  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

2/26/13 6:27:05 AM#51
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Dakeru
Japanese are traditional and consider f2p dishonorable. It's just one of the many things, where they are unable to analyse the modern market, just like they did with the first version of FFXIV.

or maybe they are not that greedy like every other western model company :)

 

In this scenario. Traditional P2P is better than modern F2P. This goes for many many cases, not every modern thing in present means its automaticaly better than it was before. Some might say that world was better 20/30/80 years ago than it is now, etc. etc ..

And I think country as Japan with traditions is better than some modern state with his modern whatever crap :D

 

So I would rather play the game developed by traditional company where I am sure that they preserve their goals and promises .. than playing mmorpg developed by modern company and have to worry about every patch and change that breaks their promises just because modern NA/EU players want that change to happen. Due to ''I want everything for free and without effort mentality'' that NA/EU players usually have.

It is not about being greedy it is about running a viable business. WOW and RIft both are still managing sub based model. Why? because they have enough players to keep their business model afloat.

Honor and pride doesn't pay the bills. if  Reborn tanked like previous version they will have only two options either shut the game down for good this time or go F2P / B2P.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
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  Dogblaster

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

2/26/13 6:37:04 AM#52

Yes and there are thousands of players who quit wow for that reason. Because these company care more about running viable business and pleasing everyone. So they dump down all the the content, make it as much casual friendly as possible. etc

 

I think i speak for more players than myself when i say I dont want FF XIV: ARR to be anything like wow or rift.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1328

We live for The One, we die for The One.

2/26/13 7:24:26 AM#53

i have to say that i am already really sick of the "we want to play mmorpg for free" crowd.

if the game isnt worth to you 15$ a month then there is something really wrong with you if you are playing it/want to play it, because there are THOUSANDS of activities out there that are worh 15+$ a month.

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1127

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

2/26/13 8:14:36 AM#54
Originally posted by Treabhair
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Treabhair

I do appreciate the humorous attitude you take, even if you don't really agree with me at all.

Anyways, to answer your question,

En Masse, Cryptic, PWE, Midway, and Arena Net are all real world companies making real money. So how would it work in the real world? Well I guess it would work buy making a product free to play and charging for extras, except with the trend in most f2p, the people playing for free would be the ones being catered too. At least my idea gives priority to the subscribers.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see what sort of success or failure FFXIV:ARR is before any consideration to change is given a thought. Though if they don't do as well as they planned and are forced to try a different revenue model or scrap the title altogether, what concern is it of mine if they go the way of the casual f2p?

I am pretty sure this game will be sucessfull, It doesnt matter if they reach 500k or 5M sub. All what matters is what goals company and director/producer Naoki Yoshida are aiming to.

 

I hope this game with this big potential, really dedicated developer team working on it with hearths and souls (they are Japanese afterall) will never turn just into ''cash cow'' where pleasing ''everyone'', in other words no one matters.

 

What concern is it of mine that you dont have money to play the game or time? I DONT CARE :) more loot for me

All that matters is that they make money. Square Enix is in financial trouble and they can't afford to cater to a game and it's players if it's bleeding money instead of making it.

I don't doubt that the game will find success in Japan with this model, but if it doesn't find the same success here, SE could very well go the way of SEGA, and simply pull the plug on international support rather than lose more money trying to cater to outside players. That or casual f2p mode it.

 

Also, it may be a surprise to you, but not everyone who plays f2p games are poor and don't have money or time. As I said before, I simply don't like playing with the thought that I'm spending money to waste my time lingering in the back of my mind. Also, if FFXI and some of the posters here are anything to go by, p2p attracts elitists / I'm better than other people mentalities.

When you are watching cable TVor sat.. Do you sit there and think you wasting your money paying for entertainment? How. About when going to the movies? Or maybe a concert? Or play?

Elitist? If not liking people who  like to mooch off others makes me an elitist then sign me up. I know in real life I work my butt off  own my own business and still struggle from time to time with bills and things that come up. It sickens me to see people standing in line for handouts while doing nothing but complaining about the limitations the free stuff comes with, and why they are entitled to more.

this real life entitlement mentality has spilled over into the MMORPG comminity like a flood. With people coming up with every reason or excuse they can think of on why or how they should be able play for free. Then they come crying and complaining about the limitations they have imposed on them compared to the paying elitists. So ya if being a fan of extreme limitations on a LIMITED trial and keeping the game P2P  means I'm an elitist well then I'm Elitist and proud of it.

  User Deleted
2/26/13 8:30:15 AM#55
Originally posted by cybertrucker
Originally posted by Treabhair
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Treabhair

I do appreciate the humorous attitude you take, even if you don't really agree with me at all.

Anyways, to answer your question,

En Masse, Cryptic, PWE, Midway, and Arena Net are all real world companies making real money. So how would it work in the real world? Well I guess it would work buy making a product free to play and charging for extras, except with the trend in most f2p, the people playing for free would be the ones being catered too. At least my idea gives priority to the subscribers.

 

I guess we'll have to wait and see what sort of success or failure FFXIV:ARR is before any consideration to change is given a thought. Though if they don't do as well as they planned and are forced to try a different revenue model or scrap the title altogether, what concern is it of mine if they go the way of the casual f2p?

I am pretty sure this game will be sucessfull, It doesnt matter if they reach 500k or 5M sub. All what matters is what goals company and director/producer Naoki Yoshida are aiming to.

 

I hope this game with this big potential, really dedicated developer team working on it with hearths and souls (they are Japanese afterall) will never turn just into ''cash cow'' where pleasing ''everyone'', in other words no one matters.

 

What concern is it of mine that you dont have money to play the game or time? I DONT CARE :) more loot for me

All that matters is that they make money. Square Enix is in financial trouble and they can't afford to cater to a game and it's players if it's bleeding money instead of making it.

I don't doubt that the game will find success in Japan with this model, but if it doesn't find the same success here, SE could very well go the way of SEGA, and simply pull the plug on international support rather than lose more money trying to cater to outside players. That or casual f2p mode it.

 

Also, it may be a surprise to you, but not everyone who plays f2p games are poor and don't have money or time. As I said before, I simply don't like playing with the thought that I'm spending money to waste my time lingering in the back of my mind. Also, if FFXI and some of the posters here are anything to go by, p2p attracts elitists / I'm better than other people mentalities.

When you are watching cable TVor sat.. Do you sit there and think you wasting your money paying for entertainment? How. About when going to the movies? Or maybe a concert? Or play?

Elitist? If not liking people who  like to mooch off others makes me an elitist then sign me up. I know in real life I work my butt off  own my own business and still struggle from time to time with bills and things that come up. It sickens me to see people standing in line for handouts while doing nothing but complaining about the limitations the free stuff comes with, and why they are entitled to more.

this real life entitlement mentality has spilled over into the MMORPG comminity like a flood. With people coming up with every reason or excuse they can think of on why or how they should be able play for free. Then they come crying and complaining about the limitations they have imposed on them compared to the paying elitists. So ya if being a fan of extreme limitations on a LIMITED trial and keeping the game P2P  means I'm an elitist well then I'm Elitist and proud of it.

Neah, that'd just insult elitsts because those guys at least have some education behind their opinions.

A good F2P system beats the traditional (non-cash shop ) P2P system hands down, people can plug their ears with their fingers and start chanting their entitled mantras all they want ( I PAY 15$ !! I HAVE A RIGHT TO AN OPINION! YOU DO NOT YOU MOOCHING BEGGING PIECE OF.... you get the idea) at the end of the day a game worth its salt can have F2P, limitations on F2Ps and a way for F2Ps to get full status through work and trading with those who want services in-game in exchange ( want to build a castle but lack the funds to do so? sell a few game time cards to people for in-game gold legally and everyone wins, need help building that castle? get players you know won't shaft you to work for you on the castle in exchange for you paying their game time for lets say the duration of the castle's construction, maybe actual real world weeks and if they do a good job you give em a little tip,etc,etc, all of this perfectly possible in non-theme park games , hell even in Sandparks or user content creation enabled Themeparks).

 

ARR sounds like a good game but if this thread evidences one thing is that it will tank due to its poor community, shame really I kinda like Square Enix when they're not making quicktime event movie games.

  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

2/26/13 8:40:57 AM#56
Originally posted by Dogblaster

Yes and there are thousands of players who quit wow for that reason. Because these company care more about running viable business and pleasing everyone. So they dump down all the the content, make it as much casual friendly as possible. etc

 

I think i speak for more players than myself when i say I dont want FF XIV: ARR to be anything like wow or rift.

And yet WOW has millions of players playing a lot more than that left.  So there a big hole in your theory. FFXIV has already been dumbed down and is redesigned to be more in line with traditional MMOS. The only reason original version tanked was because it was not like WOW, RIFT and other MMOS.

In the end it is business. If they have large enough playerbase to supprt them they won't go F2P.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Makidian

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/13
Posts: 204

2/26/13 8:58:21 AM#57
Not to be mean but if you can't spend 15 bucks a month then your doing something wrong irl
  Cod_Eye

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1012

2/26/13 9:08:39 AM#58
Originally posted by Makidian
Not to be mean but if you can't spend 15 bucks a month then your doing something wrong irl

Rather silly statement to make.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1328

We live for The One, we die for The One.

2/26/13 9:12:58 AM#59
Originally posted by Cod_Eye
Originally posted by Makidian
Not to be mean but if you can't spend 15 bucks a month then your doing something wrong irl

Rather silly statement to make.

ok, how about changing that statement a bit:

if you can't spend 15 bucks a month and you still want to play mmorpgs, then your doing something wrong irl

  Cod_Eye

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1012

2/26/13 9:13:12 AM#60
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by cybertrucker
Originally posted by Treabhair
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Treabhair

 

 

 

 

ARR sounds like a good game but if this thread evidences one thing is that it will tank due to its poor community, shame really I kinda like Square Enix when they're not making quicktime event movie games.

This thread does not represent the community of ARR, ARR has no community yet as it has not been released.  This thread is represented by the MMORPG.com community, fortunately we are all not representetive of most of those that replied in this thread.

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