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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Some Top Concerns from the Beta forums

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80 posts found
  Abloec

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/09/04
Posts: 318

2/25/13 9:53:08 AM#61
Originally posted by LIOKI
Originally posted by Abloec
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by LIOKI
Originally posted by saurus123
Originally posted by LIOKI

Being rooted while casting/firing is realistic. Attempt yourself to shoot a bow or a gun while strafing or running an see how you make out. Besides that, is it really fair for a ranged player to be able to kite melee around at their leisure?

Some amount of movement would be acceptable, just not flat out running, jumping, skipping, etc.

realistic?

 

finest archers are able to shoot 3 arrows in 1.5 seconds even if they are jumping or running

what about mounted archers able to hit any target?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zGnxeSbb3g

FYI, I belong to a defensive pistol shooting club and we practice "run n' gun" drills often, the archery club also has practice days right behind us. Believe me it isn't as easy as you think.  

a pistol isnt the same thing at all, if your going to compare, try running and firing an assault rifle with accuracy, i think you'll find that accuracy is a really huge factor, so rooting someone in place thats trying to use a bow is not unrealistic, its probably more realistic than the bunny hopping archer the game would probably degenerate to, as for casting while moving, D&D magic involves using magic that has verbal, somatic, and material components

I could just see the outrage from the baby gamers if spells actually required components and like a freaking guitar hero type of minigame.

Spell Components would be perfect cash shop fodder though.

Oh god no, people already get upset w/ other limitations/cash shop items.


Damnant quod non intellegunt

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1369

2/25/13 9:54:28 AM#62
Lack of customization, boring undistinct loot, self rooting, cryptic made.....where do I sign up?! I suppose most of this can be changed prior to release, hopefully.
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

2/25/13 9:57:39 AM#63
Originally posted by Mardukk
Lack of customization, boring undistinct loot, self rooting, cryptic made.....where do I sign up?! I suppose most of this can be changed prior to release, hopefully.

Serious question: Has that ever actually happened? Any game ever make drastic changes in beta before launch? I've never seen it.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

 
OP  2/25/13 9:58:28 AM#64
Originally posted by Mardukk
Lack of customization, boring undistinct loot, self rooting, cryptic made.....where do I sign up?! I suppose most of this can be changed prior to release, hopefully.

 

I added in a video about customization in this thread.. Doesn't look bad in that aspect overall

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Abloec

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/09/04
Posts: 318

2/25/13 10:00:59 AM#65
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Mardukk
Lack of customization, boring undistinct loot, self rooting, cryptic made.....where do I sign up?! I suppose most of this can be changed prior to release, hopefully.

 

I added in a video about customization in this thread.. Doesn't look bad in that aspect overall

The guy even left out another part of the customization, there are Paragon specialities I guess you could say. I am not talking about the Paragon trees in the feats, but when you hit level 30 you get to choose a Paragon class speciality also. This chooses what type of skills you unlock while leveling from 30-60.


Damnant quod non intellegunt

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

 
OP  2/25/13 10:08:42 AM#66
Originally posted by Abloec
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Mardukk
Lack of customization, boring undistinct loot, self rooting, cryptic made.....where do I sign up?! I suppose most of this can be changed prior to release, hopefully.

 

I added in a video about customization in this thread.. Doesn't look bad in that aspect overall

The guy even left out another part of the customization, there are Paragon specialities I guess you could say. I am not talking about the Paragon trees in the feats, but when you hit level 30 you get to choose a Paragon class speciality also. This chooses what type of skills you unlock while leveling from 30-60.

 

he didn't leave it out he talks about them he just didn't have any footage of the paths

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Abloec

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/09/04
Posts: 318

2/25/13 10:11:21 AM#67
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Abloec
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Mardukk
Lack of customization, boring undistinct loot, self rooting, cryptic made.....where do I sign up?! I suppose most of this can be changed prior to release, hopefully.

 

I added in a video about customization in this thread.. Doesn't look bad in that aspect overall

The guy even left out another part of the customization, there are Paragon specialities I guess you could say. I am not talking about the Paragon trees in the feats, but when you hit level 30 you get to choose a Paragon class speciality also. This chooses what type of skills you unlock while leveling from 30-60.

 

he didn't leave it out he talks about them he just didn't have any footage of the paths

Ahh yea just went back and noticed what he was really talking about w/ the tree in the background.


Damnant quod non intellegunt

  sodade21

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/18/09
Posts: 341

2/26/13 12:59:46 AM#68
i hope the rooting is not so hursh like ti was on Tera... All my friends hated it...while i dont like it..but i really can understand the strategic thinking around it... they want u to think before act and not win only if you are super duper fast button smasher... if you act in wrong timing u can be screwd..like it tera. although tera was a bit too slow combat in general.
sodade21 Xfire Miniprofile
  vmoped

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

2/26/13 5:51:24 AM#69
Originally posted by sodade21
i hope the rooting is not so hursh like ti was on Tera... All my friends hated it...while i dont like it..but i really can understand the strategic thinking around it... they want u to think before act and not win only if you are super duper fast button smasher... if you act in wrong timing u can be screwd..like it tera. although tera was a bit too slow combat in general.

According to one of the dev articles the rooting during most actions was a design choice.  They claim that they had a version that allowed movement with combat but it was scrapped.  Not all attacks root you btw.  There seems to be alot of posts that imply.  The rooting is to make your actions mean something according to Cryptic.  You have the choice of your ability or moving (like in pnp paper D&D).  Last time I played the pnp game you could only move during another action in certain instances, just like in NWO.

From my experience in the beta weekend the combat was pretty fast paced and the rooting was not an issue on the guardian fighter or cleric.  It forced me to make choices, unlike gw2 where all I do on most of my toons is run around kiting everything completely eliminating most challenges in combat.  Btw I really enjoy GW2 as well.  I don't really prefer one over the other, just appreciate how both play.

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  waynejr2

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3712

RIP City of Heroes!

3/01/13 11:11:35 PM#70
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Purutzil

Well to pick on one of them (just cause it does seem to come up) I don't get the 'rooting' issue. To me, it makes a lot more sense that you WOULD be rooted when you are firing then being able to move around. It adds a lot more skill to the game in meaning you need to plan out your movements and when you attack. The added skill and 'realism' level behind it personally makes me like this aspect in a game as range keeps its benefit of being ranged while also having some penalty for it.

 

Hopefully it does have some sort of limited 'break' from it like games like tera where you can use your dodge to get out if its up, but I never really got a chance to play to judge that. To me I just find it silly people thinking root isn't any good, I feel so silly playing games like as a big example GW2 where it just feels so stupid to me running around like a chicken with my head cut off spamming and dodging and just always moving and throwing stuff without having to pause to cast.  Heck it even bothers me to a degree in like Rift with instant cast ranged abilities being able to be thrown while on the move.

as i said in the OP just basic slow walking so you aren't completely rooted.. like when channeling a spell id like to just be able to backstep a little bit.. or slowly walk from side to side.. just a preference thing and would improve the overall "feel" and "realism" a lot imho.. my main experience with this is diablo type games and I just hate ranged classes in those games because of this exact thing.. melee isn't really an issue but ranged I find it to be for me

also why should you not be able to fire an "instant cast" on the move its instant

 Oh why shouldn't you get rooted?

I know people want to have ranged classes who can shoot on the run so they don't have to face melee.  IMO, except for instant spells (1st ed adnd) you should be rooted as a spell caster.

  cylon8

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/07
Posts: 298

3/01/13 11:21:25 PM#71
everything about the game looks like a slightly upgraded Champions. Same animations, wonky character builds, it's kinda disenheartening considering PWI gave them extra time. They've done ok by STO barring lock boxes and a few tweaks that pissed alot of people off, Champions has been abandioned....i envision pwi unseating management at cryptic real soon and folding the studio into their own dev offices....whether thats good or bad who knows but at this point sto is the only margina success they have and money talks.

so say we all

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2660

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

3/01/13 11:43:05 PM#72
Originally posted by Aerowyn

Just wanted to discuss a few of the top topics going on about beta

1. Lack of class customization - Very few overall choices to customize your class, You are locked into a single weapon type(afaik) and armor type(similar to TERA). Dice roll on CC isn't really a dice roll it's a preset set of numbers might as well of been choice A B C or D.  For some set and locked classes is no big deal but for me I hate it when I'm a warrior and i see 50 warriors go by and they are all exact clones of me in looks and skills.

Seeing as the combat is heads and shoulders above the style of a tradional tab target game I can live with this decision, another thing to consider is eventually (hopefully) very many classes will make into the game which will make it easier to play what ever you fancy at the moment.  Mainly because unlike a tradional MMO, NWO's main features are set in its combat and content structure and not in its class system, meaning its very easy to play multiple alts even for someone like me who has never been afflicted with that MMO disease called altitis.

2. Lack of interesting loot and stats- For a dungeon crawler type game this is a pretty big one for me. Most complaints I have seen is there is very little variety in items and so getting a new piece of loot generally has little purpose other than to sell it. Another big issue I have seen is the stats on equipment don't seem to be having much effect on your character at all. People were doing tests with differn't armors/weapons and found little to no difference in damage even though the armor provided stat increase(might be bug) .. Another complaint I saw on this was The items never have any unique qualities that set them apart from the other 9001 items you will find in a single day of adventuring. There are no flaming weapons, no root-proof boots, no bone-breaking maces or daggers that cause bleeding, or any magical quality that we are all used to seeing in D&D. Every item just has the same stats in lesser or greater quantities.

Hard to justify this as a complaint seeing as the 1st beta only went to level 30 and the head man working on NWO has said at its heart, Everwinter will be a game about dungeon crawling and collecting loot.  Besides in my 50 some levels over 3 characters in Beta weekend It felt as if I was getting upgrades all the time which is a blessing.  At level 60 we will msot likely be building multiple suits of armor/weapons such as a life leech set for soloing, a defensive set for hard modes and a DPS set for grouping.  etc etc.

3. Rooting- this is another very hot topic. For melee it isn't as noticable as it is on ranged characters..It seems many of the skills that you could see in trailers that allowed slow movement while casting now root you.. They did this for balance purposes but for me rooting in an action game kills ranged classes for me.. I hated ranged in diablo games because of this.. I honestly wouldn't care if you could just slowly walk and back peddle while channeling but rooting on all ranged skills just doesn't work for me.

This was I thought going to be a huge negative for me, but it wasnt and let me explain why.  Even though I would of preferred a system more similar to GW2, the combat wouldnt of had that viscreal feeling and it would of been more floaty.  Since every animation is rooting your character and every attack is quick and fluid the transition from attack to movement feels really really smooth and I didnt even notice the rooting animations because eac attack animation was really responsive and swift.  This is where I felt Tera went wrong, because their attack animations felt clunky because the majority of them were needlessly longer then neccessary.

 

4. Spotty Animations- combat ones are good overall i think but some are really really awful. For example the basic running animation for the mid sized races(human,elf, half-elf, drow) all seem to be designed for large bulky male models.. it works fine for half orcs but for anything else it looks very off and on a slender female model its downright horrid.. also rogues have their own set of running animations which honestly like ok to me except when running up and down stairs(which they said they were working on). Also the horse running animation is uhh not good..

Not really an issue since you can always choose a more immersive and realistic race.  I didn't like the movement of the dwarves but the Elf and Human were spot on for me tastes.

Those are just a few of the bigger topics to come from the first beta weekend, next beta weekend I'm sure there will be a slew more as a much bigger group of people will get to test the game.

Responses in light blue.

 

My only negatives are:

1. the exlusion of Drow as a race for the first 60 days to give the HotN pack more exclusivity.  This is a silly ideal IMO.

2. The Class dodge/block mechanics were not as responsive as they should be.  According to the Devs, using one of those defensive maneuvers is suppose to immediately cancel an attack animation and immediately give you the freedom to move, this wasnt the case in BWE1 as often times you had to wait for the combat animation to finish playing.

 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  McGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

3/01/13 11:49:10 PM#73
This topic is not even relevant considering the fact that the game is still in beta. Players are way too cynical these days. 
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

 
OP  3/01/13 11:53:28 PM#74
Originally posted by Czanrei
This topic is not even relevant considering the fact that the game is still in beta. Players are way too cynical these days. 

aside from the rooting and animations the others are just things from the beta forums as the topic says top concerns from the forums not from "me" exclusively..  but also what is wrong with dicsussing concerns people have from beta? when else is a good time to voice concern about a game in development if not before its release

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  achesoma

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 958

3/01/13 11:58:00 PM#75
Disappointing seeing that ranged attacks root. That's a gamebreaker for me. Not sure why these recent so-called "action" MMOs all have this. It seems like lazy balancing to me. Even traditional tab target mmos have on-the-move abilities/specs to choose from.  

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

 
OP  3/02/13 12:02:33 AM#76
Originally posted by achesoma
Disappointing seeing that ranged attacks root. That's a gamebreaker for me. Not sure why these recent so-called "action" MMOs all have this. It seems like lazy balancing to me. Even traditional tab target mmos have on-the-move abilities/specs to choose from.  

for me if it wasn't action based i wouldn't care at all but its the fast pace that makes the rooting feel so "off" it just doesn't flow well at all for me.. but melee for the most part is fun for me so i guess ill stick with that.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Thupli

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 399

3/02/13 12:13:34 AM#77

The Foundry will make or break this game.

 

If it has a good dungeon creator tool, I will overlook LOTS of bad stuff.

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1275

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

3/02/13 9:03:47 AM#78
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Aerowyn

also just a side note I'd never expect the same kind of quality from a f2p game than I would from a AAA B2P or P2P game.. was just letting people know some of the concerns testers are having

But if pretty much everyone is going to be making FTP, then my quality bar will rise and I will expect continous progress.

There is no such thing as f2p.  It's Share To Play so there are more multi in the mmo.  F2p models are making as much money as subs and more than box.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

 
OP  3/02/13 9:12:14 AM#79
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Aerowyn

also just a side note I'd never expect the same kind of quality from a f2p game than I would from a AAA B2P or P2P game.. was just letting people know some of the concerns testers are having

But if pretty much everyone is going to be making FTP, then my quality bar will rise and I will expect continous progress.

There is no such thing as f2p.  It's Share To Play so there are more multi in the mmo.  F2p models are making as much money as subs and more than box.

what's your point? i played plenty of f2p games in the past and never spent a dime on many of them.. really just depends how the shop is setup and what is offered. If people can't help themselves and spend $100 a month on a game more power to them if that's what they want to do.. If the shop is filled with p2w items then that's another story altogether 

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 782

3/02/13 12:33:51 PM#80
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Aerowyn

also just a side note I'd never expect the same kind of quality from a f2p game than I would from a AAA B2P or P2P game.. was just letting people know some of the concerns testers are having

But if pretty much everyone is going to be making FTP, then my quality bar will rise and I will expect continous progress.

There is no such thing as f2p.  It's Share To Play so there are more multi in the mmo.  F2p models are making as much money as subs and more than box.

what's your point? i played plenty of f2p games in the past and never spent a dime on many of them.. really just depends how the shop is setup and what is offered. If people can't help themselves and spend $100 a month on a game more power to them if that's what they want to do.. If the shop is filled with p2w items then that's another story altogether 

Not to go off topic here but I think the whole P2P or B2P means more quality compared to f2p argument no longer holds water.   A couple years ago sure maybe but not now in the present market.

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