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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Hypocrisy of faction pride in TESO

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124 posts found
  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

 
OP  2/25/13 3:27:00 AM#1

So, many know that the developers of TESO are locking each race to a specific faction, and each faction to a set amount of the world.  Everything else, minute the PvP zone, is off limits to your faction.

Here is what is official 

"The Elder Scrolls Online features a three alliance system, with geographically separated alliances comprised of three races each. Races are restricted by alliance in order to generate and enhance their distinct identity. Each race is physically distinguishable from each other so in world PvP players can easily differentiate friends from foes."

"Each alliance’s home area is unique, and the distinct identity of a alliances native provinces helps to foster realm pride amongst players and enhance the meta-conflict which fuels the social side of a three alliance realm war. For prolonged success of the AvA meta-game within the fan community, it is very important that players can identify themselves with their"

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

Now, the biggest complaint going around is that this locks players from exploring the rest of Tamriel.

What is the biggest respone to this? 'Role alts, and you can see everything"

So tell me. where the hell does faction pride come into play if we are all rolling characters from all three factions anyways?

Zenimax is developing a system that PROMOTES the creation of alts, unless you want to forgo seeing the rest of the world, and yet calls this fostering realm pride?  Would not having pride for your realm mean you create alts ON THAT REALM?

I fail to see their explanation for anything else but utter bullshit and propaganda to explain away the fact it's far easier to just code a closed system then a true open system that TES is best known for.  Of all the way Matt Firor could have put in it beloved RvRvR, he chose the one that LEAST OF ALL promote faction pride, as most people will want to explore the entire land of Tamriel, that until today, have only been able to see in bits and peices from the different games.

Bad move Zenimax.

The thing that really upsets me, is that they are dictating how us, as players, should develop faction pride. Instead of letting us find our own path, our own reason to join and fight for the faction we chose, they force this on you.

In the end, this faction pride us less about your own personal feelings, and comes down to "This is my highest level character, so this is my faction"

  Swiftrevoir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/13/05
Posts: 162

2/25/13 3:39:43 AM#2
So by off limits you mean that there is no method by which an opposing alliance can enter a land even if its to raid upon said lands?  You're not saying they'll be killed on sight, you're saying that there just are no physical means to see it period?
  zimike

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 119

2/25/13 3:41:32 AM#3

This game will fail plan and simple. People in the mmo gaming market need to wake up and see what they are doing. How many companies have to go under or change to free to play models just to realize this?

People want freedom in a game. Every time you put up a wall, it turns off players.  The idea behinding making a great successful game is simple, but developing it is not. Sadly, most companies decide to take the easy way out for short profit gains, rather then decide a long time successful game.

  walltar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 60

2/25/13 3:42:41 AM#4

Well there won't be open PvP in PvE zones .... Good move Zenimax.

 

But they could have made system, where some instances are open to PvP.

  jedensuscg

Novice Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 212

 
OP  2/25/13 4:05:15 AM#5
Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
So by off limits you mean that there is no method by which an opposing alliance can enter a land even if its to raid upon said lands?  You're not saying they'll be killed on sight, you're saying that there just are no physical means to see it period?

As per the offical FAQ and developer articles, yes.  I am not sure how they intend to do this, some magical wall, or some text that says you can't enter here and teleports you back, or more likely it will be zoned, and you will just see imprenetrable mountains or somthing where the other areas should be.

There reasoning for this is to PREVENT PvP outside of the Cyrodiil, the PvP zone.  Unless you are killed instantly by some magical guards upon entering these other lands, then there will always be a way to enter, sneak around and kill unsuspecting players. However read this part again 

"Players may not travel into the “home” areas beloning to enemy alliances. Therefore all PvP in ESO takes place within Cyrodiil. This limited exploration is intented to preserve faction identity, protect players from unsolicited PvP, and enhance replayability." Source

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1809

2/25/13 5:32:37 AM#6
Yeah I created a similar thread a couple weeks back. In DAoC, people played the same Realm for months and even years without feeling the need to explore the other Realms. I think the reason why people aren't tolerant of the same design decision is because unlike DAoC, TES series has a history of being open world and explore the entire map. So naturally, the target market for an ESO game will want to explore the entire map, and when over half of the world isn't explorable unless you reroll, it doesn't sit well with a lot of the target market.
  azarhal

Elite Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 510

2/25/13 7:55:29 AM#7
Originally posted by jedensuscg
Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
So by off limits you mean that there is no method by which an opposing alliance can enter a land even if its to raid upon said lands?  You're not saying they'll be killed on sight, you're saying that there just are no physical means to see it period?

As per the offical FAQ and developer articles, yes.  I am not sure how they intend to do this, some magical wall, or some text that says you can't enter here and teleports you back, or more likely it will be zoned, and you will just see imprenetrable mountains or somthing where the other areas should be.

There reasoning for this is to PREVENT PvP outside of the Cyrodiil, the PvP zone.  Unless you are killed instantly by some magical guards upon entering these other lands, then there will always be a way to enter, sneak around and kill unsuspecting players. However read this part again 

"Players may not travel into the “home” areas beloning to enemy alliances. Therefore all PvP in ESO takes place within Cyrodiil. This limited exploration is intented to preserve faction identity, protect players from unsolicited PvP, and enhance replayability." Source

Considering that each alliance zones don't include all the possible lands for those area at launch, there are probably no way to reach the opposing faction borders in the game anyway.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6477

2/25/13 8:00:48 AM#8

Games that encourge alts - WoW post BC, Swtor, GW2. 

 

Man I hoping the character development in this game is amazing. Encouraging alts doesn't point to that though.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6477

2/25/13 8:02:32 AM#9

Originally posted by jedensuscg
Originally posted by Swiftrevoir
So by off limits you mean that there is no method by which an opposing alliance can enter a land even if its to raid upon said lands?  You're not saying they'll be killed on sight, you're saying that there just are no physical means to see it period?

As per the offical FAQ and developer articles, yes.  I am not sure how they intend to do this, some magical wall, or some text that says you can't enter here and teleports you back, or more likely it will be zoned, and you will just see imprenetrable mountains or somthing where the other areas should be.

There reasoning for this is to PREVENT PvP outside of the Cyrodiil, the PvP zone.  Unless you are killed instantly by some magical guards upon entering these other lands, then there will always be a way to enter, sneak around and kill unsuspecting players. However read this part again 

"Players may not travel into the “home” areas beloning to enemy alliances. Therefore all PvP in ESO takes place within Cyrodiil. This limited exploration is intented to preserve faction identity, protect players from unsolicited PvP, and enhance replayability." Source

 

This is exactly like swtor... 

  Karteli

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2688

2/25/13 8:23:48 AM#10

I'm not much of an altaholic, I'd rather just get vested with one character and build him/her up strong, filling whatever bars or metrics the game has to offer.  In a good game it takes years before I feel inclined to devote time on advancing a second character.

 

In a bad game focused on alts, I'll make them, sure, but I won't feel very invested in the game at all, and I won't be keeping the account very long anyways.  If the leveling experience is better than any endgame content, then there are going to be widespread longevity issues.  I eye leveling alts as "content" very suspiciously.

 

TESO does sound an awful lot like SWTOR.  Zenimax didn't want anyone upset, so their solution was to prevent PVP outside of a specific campaign instance, create artificial barriers between the faction regions, and while this doesn't offend anyone, it does little to excite either MMO fans or ES fans.  Seems like they didn't understand who their target audience is .. MMORPG'ers or SP RPG'ers...

 

I bet it looked great on paper though.  Especially on exposure and profitability analysis charts.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  baphamet

Elite Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2575

110100100

2/25/13 11:07:40 AM#11


Originally posted by Karteli
I'm not much of an altaholic, I'd rather just get vested with one character and build him/her up strong, filling whatever bars or metrics the game has to offer.  In a good game it takes years before I feel inclined to devote time on advancing a second character.

 

In a bad game focused on alts, I'll make them, sure, but I won't feel very invested in the game at all, and I won't be keeping the account very long anyways.  If the leveling experience is better than any endgame content, then there are going to be widespread longevity issues.  I eye leveling alts as "content" very suspiciously.

 

TESO does sound an awful lot like SWTOR.  Zenimax didn't want anyone upset, so their solution was to prevent PVP outside of a specific campaign instance, create artificial barriers between the faction regions, and while this doesn't offend anyone, it does little to excite either MMO fans or ES fans.  Seems like they didn't understand who their target audience is .. MMORPG'ers or SP RPG'ers...

 

I bet it looked great on paper though.  Especially on exposure and profitability analysis charts.


IMO you make a good point with the first part of your post but the second part.....i just don't think that will be an issue for most people.

people will use that as a means to trash the game here on the forums, but in the real world the fact that you cannot go to the enemy area with one character will not make or break this game, even if it means less exploring with your main character.

even in open pvp games where you can go anywhere (i will use wow as an example) how often do people in general venture to those areas just to explore?

LOL its almost unheard of. not saying people don't do it but if there is no point in going there people generally wont do it.

the only time i notice them doing that is almost exclusively for pvp.

but if there is no pvp anyways? frankly, i just don't see a lot of people doing it and definitely do not see this as a mayor issue for this game.


  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3524

2/25/13 11:16:54 AM#12

Alts only need to be rolled by those whose enjoyment on an MMO depends of experiencing every last little bit of content it contains. Apparently this section of the MMO-playing public is huge--at least it appears so from the repetitive posts in this forum. And it's not just territorial content you are "missing out" on if you don't roll alts---if the game has 15 classes with 3 variants each...well have fun with your 45 characters. Or is experiencing territory that much more important to you than experiencing the 45 different ways to play?

Funny thing... I've played WOW on and off for 9 years. There are many large portions of the game world and some dungeons and raids I haven't seen....nor do I particularly want to. I guess this completionist achievement is way down my list of priorities.

 

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 948

2/25/13 11:30:24 AM#13

Nothing to do be achievments or completionists.

TES games are based on Freedom.

Freedom to explore, freedon to choose, freedom to engage.

Locked factions removes one of the founding tennents of a TES game.

 

You don't need to look any futher or deeper as to why people don't like it so please stop trying so hard.

  Karteli

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2688

2/25/13 11:37:33 AM#14
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by Karteli
I'm not much of an altaholic, I'd rather just get vested with one character and build him/her up strong, filling whatever bars or metrics the game has to offer.  In a good game it takes years before I feel inclined to devote time on advancing a second character.

 

 

In a bad game focused on alts, I'll make them, sure, but I won't feel very invested in the game at all, and I won't be keeping the account very long anyways.  If the leveling experience is better than any endgame content, then there are going to be widespread longevity issues.  I eye leveling alts as "content" very suspiciously.

 

TESO does sound an awful lot like SWTOR.  Zenimax didn't want anyone upset, so their solution was to prevent PVP outside of a specific campaign instance, create artificial barriers between the faction regions, and while this doesn't offend anyone, it does little to excite either MMO fans or ES fans.  Seems like they didn't understand who their target audience is .. MMORPG'ers or SP RPG'ers...

 

I bet it looked great on paper though.  Especially on exposure and profitability analysis charts.


 

IMO you make a good point with the first part of your post but the second part.....i just don't think that will be an issue for most people.

people will use that as a means to trash the game here on the forums, but in the real world the fact that you cannot go to the enemy area with one character will not make or break this game, even if it mans less exploring with your main character.

even in open pvp games where you can go anywhere (i will use wow as an example) how often do people in general venture to those areas just to explore?

LOL its almost unheard of. not saying people don't do it but if there is no point in going there people generally wont do it.

the only time i notice them doing that is almost exclusively for pvp.

but if there is no pvp anyways? frankly, i just don't see a lot of people doing it and definitely do not see this as a mayor issue for this game.

It's not so much that you need those hostile areas to explore and hang out in constantly, but rather that they are available, and you are free to go there if you choose to.

 

Seeing that opposite faction city or town and ducking behind trees to get a closer peek was fun.  As in your WoW example, there were non-contested safe areas that enemies could visit but not initiate combat (they could be attacked though by anyone who belonged there).  This was great for newbies because they were safe, but also heart pounding for enemies who could be spotted and killed / camped by defending players.

Exploring them was fun.  The challenge came in when certain quests / items / or achievements could only be obtained in enemy territory.  Stealth became a new mini-game.

 

Of course someone could opt not to do any of those activities, but they were always there if they changed their mind down the road.  Blocking them off completely in TESO removes the possibilities, which separates the community into those who never cared and those who wanted more options and immersion.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Ryowulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 664

2/25/13 11:37:54 AM#15

I disagree that exploration is the biggest problem people have with the Faction Lock.

Issues with FL that I see based on what we currently know.

1.  Races are locked.  Its called faction lock, but race is the thing right?  You and your friends and guildmates will only have 3 races to pick from. 

2. Exploration is limited without alts.

3. Content issues. They have to make 3 times the content.  There are all sorts of problems with this.

4. Fully Voice acted.  I don't know if this means every quest or just npcs saying Hi when you click on them.  If its really 'fully' and you have to do it 3 times this clearly can cause issues with content updates.

 

 

 

  versulas

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 204

2/25/13 11:43:05 AM#16
Originally posted by Iselin

Funny thing... I've played WOW on and off for 9 years. There are many large portions of the game world and some dungeons and raids I haven't seen....nor do I particularly want to. I guess this completionist achievement is way down my list of priorities.

You can't have played WoW for 9 years... It hasn't been out that long (not even if you tried the beta). Also, you telling me you've played it for all that time and never once felt an urge to at least see what all the zones looked like? That was the first thing I did. Even when Cata came out, I had to go back and look at what changed.

I know everyone has their own unique style of playing, but failing to even have a grasp on the game world sounds like maybe you shouldn't be playing an mmorpg. There are those facebook browser games that'll do the same thing for you... 

 

OT, I understand the OP's frustrations... Sure DAoC had the frontier system and GW2 ran with it, but those weren't sandbox games which, for the longest time, is what people thought TESO was. Now, as more information filters out, people are slowly beginning to understand that that just isn't the case. For some it's good, some bad, either way, it's a game that doesn't allow you to seamlessly play all content and covers up that fact with buzz words like 'replayability.'

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1106

2/25/13 12:54:21 PM#17

Its funny how Zenimax keep mentioning this "Faction Pride" when talking about their forced 3 faction system, then out of the other side of their mouth they then talk about rolling Alts for "replayability" reasons and to be able to see the entire gameworld.

How does one have pride in their faction if they are also rolling alts on the opposing factions?

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  azarhal

Elite Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 510

2/25/13 2:21:49 PM#18
Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its funny how Zenimax keep mentioning this "Faction Pride" when talking about their forced 3 faction system, then out of the other side of their mouth they then talk about rolling Alts for "replayability" reasons and to be able to see the entire gameworld.

How does one have pride in their faction if they are also rolling alts on the opposing factions?

Faction Pride doesn't dissapear just because you are rolling alts.

  • Faction Pride = My favorite Faction (main character is here)
  • Replayability  = Making a new character to see new things I haven't seen yet.

People make characters in both factions in SWTOR all the time. A simple look at the general chat is all that is needed to see that despite having alts, players clearly prefer one faction over the other. That is what Faction Pride is all about. In fact, rolling alts to see the "other sides" can increase your Faction Pride (or make you switch to the dark side *cough*).

  samvenice

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/11
Posts: 91

2/25/13 2:28:45 PM#19

I never felt the need of seeing "Midgard". Like at all.

If one day it was nuked and obliterated to hell, with the squeal of cobolds and trolls growling in agony, my realm pride would rejoyce (clearly that would leave me with only the myrmidons zerg to fight but oh well... good times xD )

I hope to feel the same love/hate someday, being it in TESO or any other game with the same "zone lock" philosophy.

  Karteli

Elite Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2688

2/25/13 2:33:12 PM#20
Originally posted by azarhal
Originally posted by PyrateLV

Its funny how Zenimax keep mentioning this "Faction Pride" when talking about their forced 3 faction system, then out of the other side of their mouth they then talk about rolling Alts for "replayability" reasons and to be able to see the entire gameworld.

How does one have pride in their faction if they are also rolling alts on the opposing factions?

Faction Pride doesn't dissapear just because you are rolling alts.

  • Faction Pride = My favorite Faction (main character is here)
  • Replayability  = Making a new character to see new things I haven't seen yet.

People make characters in both factions in SWTOR all the time. A simple look at the general chat is all that is needed to see that despite having alts, players clearly prefer one faction over the other. That is what Faction Pride is all about. In fact, rolling alts to see the "other sides" can increase your Faction Pride (or make you switch to the dark side *cough*).

Faction pride doesn't exist because it's perfectly fine to jump ship to a boat taking in less water?

 

Disappearing from your guild to play another faction helps the side you love? hmm

 

Ah yes, then there is SWTOR.  I don't want to play all the stories to see the whole game.  I want to play one story and become powerful.

 

Not that power matters, because SWTOR also creates artificial barriers between the two sides, even to go so far as to make separate instances of a planet - one for Republic - one for Empire, so no conflicts will ever happen... carebears were never happier...

But the game wen't down the drain.  The game had many flaws, but PVP restrictions were one of the culprits.  Segregated PVP .. what a concept.  Aren't these factions at war?? lulz.

 

If only the real world was like TESO.  "You don't like my country? well nyaww nywaww .. you can't touch me because there is a force field and you can never enter." /toungestick

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

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