Originally posted by Caldrin

So not im not with you..

As long as you support the Kickstarter, that's fine with me.

This entire thread is hilarious.  If you're trying to say that console mechanics are better for a PC MMO, you're really fooling yourself.  

When you have 2 hot bars center and 2 on the side, do you really think your free aim is optimal?  There's a reason almost every FPS out there can be played with a controller:  limited abilities.  The action may be considered more fast paced.  But that is only because you can die a lot faster

Now hush this talk... seriously.

And stop calling it "tab targetting."  The more you use it, the more people think thats what they actual mechanic is called.  Not all games have a "nearest target" function but they still use a "locked" target aiming system.  Tab is generally the default button for the "nearest target" function.  Which only REALLY bad players utilize anyways.

Originally posted by Smorak

This entire thread is hilarious.  If you're trying to say that console mechanics are better for a PC MMO, you're really fooling yourself.  

Thanks for the great insight. You clearly took a while to think about it under every angle.

When you have 2 hot bars center and 2 on the side, do you really think your free aim is optimal?  There's a reason almost every FPS out there can be played with a controller:  limited abilities.  The action may be considered more fast paced.  But that is only because you can die a lot faster

Oh sorry here's your argument.... "action gameplay = limited numbers of abilitys"... okay... well... It been sayd allready but a lot of Darkfall and Fallen Earth players would disagree and a lot of DC Universe players would add that numbers of skills =/= enjoyement.

Now hush this talk... seriously.

yaaah so serious wow !

And stop calling it "tab targetting."  The more you use it, the more people think thats what they actual mechanic is called.  Not all games have a "nearest target" function but they still use a "locked" target aiming system.   

SIR YES SIR !

But since we actually use Tab to target I though it could be okayish to still say so ? :;| No ? Okay sorry !

Tab is generally the default button for the "nearest target" function.  Which only REALLY bad players utilize anyways.

Ahaha perfect conclusion Thanks a lot. This is actually the part that gave me the will to answer you. It shows you have absolutely no experience in MMORPGs OR a very selective memory. In some situations it is simply a must have. If you never encountered one of those situation, you are FAR from being a fair reference in term of experience on that matter.

No offense mate !

Originally posted by Vindicar

Originally posted by Smorak

This entire thread is hilarious.  If you're trying to say that console mechanics are better for a PC MMO, you're really fooling yourself.  

Thanks for the great insight. You clearly took a while to think about it under every angle.

 

When you have 2 hot bars center and 2 on the side, do you really think your free aim is optimal?  There's a reason almost every FPS out there can be played with a controller:  limited abilities.  The action may be considered more fast paced.  But that is only because you can die a lot faster

Oh sorry here's your argument.... "action gameplay = limited numbers of abilitys"... okay... well... It been sayd allready but a lot of Darkfall and Fallen Earth players would disagree and a lot of DC Universe players would add that numbers of skills =/= enjoyement.

 

Now hush this talk... seriously.

yaaah so serious wow !

 

And stop calling it "tab targetting."  The more you use it, the more people think thats what they actual mechanic is called.  Not all games have a "nearest target" function but they still use a "locked" target aiming system.   

SIR YES SIR !

But since we actually use Tab to target I though it could be okayish to still say so ? :;| No ? Okay sorry !

 

Tab is generally the default button for the "nearest target" function.  Which only REALLY bad players utilize anyways.

 

Ahaha perfect conclusion Thanks a lot. This is actually the part that gave me the will to answer you. It shows you have absolutely no experience in MMORPGs OR a very selective memory. In some situations it is simply a must have. If you never encountered one of those situation, you are FAR from being a fair reference in term of experience on that matter.

 

 

sNo offense mate !

Spell check is your friend amigo. Seriously man, no offense, but I have a terrible time reading your posts with all the spelling errors you have in there. How old are you? Just curious.

 

Spell check is your friend amigo. Seriously man, no offense, but I have a terrible time reading your posts with all the spelling errors you have in there. How old are you? Just curious.

I can't use an english spell check since I'm not fluent in english, it would pretty oftenly misslead me. I prefer my good old approximativ english.

I'm french speaking person and translating what I think (in french) directly into english is usually impossible so I have to "think" in english... this is why it's sometimes really messy. :D

Nothing to do with how old I am... you could have guess that...

Originally posted by Vindicar

 

Spell check is your friend amigo. Seriously man, no offense, but I have a terrible time reading your posts with all the spelling errors you have in there. How old are you? Just curious.

 

I can't use an english spell check since I'm not fluent in english, it would pretty oftenly misslead me. I prefer my good old approximativ english.

I'm french speaking person and translating what I think (in french) directly into english is usually impossible so I have to "think" in english... this is why it's sometimes really messy. :D

Nothing to do with how old I am... you could have guess that...

LOL, You're French... You're right... I should've guessed that.

DAoC was never a twitch based game. Why would they make it so now? That would be like the creator of Call of Duty making the next release a strategy based game. It just doesn't make much sense...

If you didn't enjoy the combat of DAoC why in the world are you here discussing the creation of a game devoted to the fans of the original? Odd. 

Originally posted by StarI
lol@trolls who are saying that if you take away tab target combat and implement fps style aiming, the tactical part of game gets lost. LOL? Can you get dafter than that?

I wouldn't be so quick to call someone daft. 

Originally posted by Canan

Originally posted by StarI
lol@trolls who are saying that if you take away tab target combat and implement fps style aiming, the tactical part of game gets lost. LOL? Can you get dafter than that?

I wouldn't be so quick to call someone daft. 

Do you know a better word for someone who claims tactical part is lost when you use fps aiming instead tab targetting?

Originally posted by Canan

DAoC was never a twitch based game. Why would they make it so now? That would be like the creator of Call of Duty making the next release a strategy based game. It just doesn't make much sense...

If you didn't enjoy the combat of DAoC why in the world are you here discussing the creation of a game devoted to the fans of the original? Odd. 

Yea, seriously,  I don't know what they're doing here... One of them even admitted he had no intention of playing the game, lol.

Originally posted by Qallidexz

Originally posted by Caldrin

So not im not with you..

 

As long as you support the Kickstarter, that's fine with me.

Im pretty sure i will be even if it is tab target :) we need a good PVP MMORPG

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by Qallidexz

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Fendel84M

So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.

I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.

I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.

Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?  

Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234?  thats the impression this thread is giving me.

Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away.  PvP is always constant motion.  

And latency will always be an issue.  Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.

 

Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.

Don't assume things. I've played every major MMO since before EverQuest including DAoC. And that style of combat was innovative back then, but have you played DAOC recently? That combat is pretty boring by todays standards.

Thats just me though, I've grown to enjoy action combat in MMOs. I still enjoy strategies and tactical advantages. But I don't think that memorizing 100 different skills is the bees knees. Dodging your attack, and then stabbing you in the back however...is pretty awesome.

You're allowed to have your opinion. But i don't appreciate the way you are trying to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be a child or an idiot COD fan. You're the one who is acting childish.

So you have played every MMORPG yet you think PvP in 'tab target' games is standing still mashing keys?  Either you are lying about playing other games, lying about how tab target games work to try to sell your point, or clueless.  And I am going to assume you arent clueless.

You are allowed to have your opinion, but when you have to tell lies to try to sell your opinion no one will take it seriously and you deserve anything you get thrown back at you.

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by Qallidexz

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Fendel84M

So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.

I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.

I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.

Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?  

Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234?  thats the impression this thread is giving me.

Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away.  PvP is always constant motion.  

And latency will always be an issue.  Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.

 

Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.

Don't assume things. I've played every major MMO since before EverQuest including DAoC. And that style of combat was innovative back then, but have you played DAOC recently? That combat is pretty boring by todays standards.

Thats just me though, I've grown to enjoy action combat in MMOs. I still enjoy strategies and tactical advantages. But I don't think that memorizing 100 different skills is the bees knees. Dodging your attack, and then stabbing you in the back however...is pretty awesome.

You're allowed to have your opinion. But i don't appreciate the way you are trying to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be a child or an idiot COD fan. You're the one who is acting childish.

So you have played every MMORPG yet you think PvP in 'tab target' games is standing still mashing keys?  Either you are lying about playing other games, lying about how tab target games work to try to sell your point, or clueless.  And I am going to assume you arent clueless.

 

You are allowed to have your opinion, but when you have to tell lies to try to sell your opinion no one will take it seriously and you deserve anything you get thrown back at you.

 

 

Amen.

Has anyone seen the anime Sword Art Online or .hack// ? 

I imagine, maybe, 90% of you hate anime, but the idea of where MMO's will go is demonstrated very well in these 2 anime. 

It's a pretty obvious step for humans to make video games more realistic. I imagine alot of you wish you were there, in person, fighting the final raid boss in some dungeon.Wielding sword,shield, bow, staff... etc..  I mean that's what role playing games are about. Look at the Cryengine or Unreal engine to name a few that are pushing the boundaries and moving into the greater depths of our conscious. Getting closer to realizing our dreams in video games. 

I think this debacle of a conversation is only touching the surface of a much deeper problem. We should be embracing the future of gaming technology and the imagination of any developper who are reaching to make their games as close to reality while still trying to maintain a fantasy setting. 

Maybe, that never was the purpose...

Tab Targetting or Free form combat are only precursors to a greater combat system. Your rants are as bickering children over morsels of cake. 

Be blessed..

Shadow

Really? Tab-targetting 'makes' fun combat? If anything in its base form tab targetting makes for boring combat. Not having it can make even simply spamming one button with action combat seem more fun then a basic tab-targetting combat. I can see maybe having a 'lock-on' deal but truthfully I don't see why people swear by tab-targetting. There are games that do a good job with it, AIon is quite fun with the combat how its set up (and its older now even too) though for the most part a lot can be dule. 

It takes more skill picking the right skill AND aiming then it does just picking the right skill. An action combat game will always take more skill then tab target if you just take out the combat style (rotation and the likes) and paste it in. Does that mean tab-targetting should die? No, but it sure doesn't mean it takes more skill either.

"Can you attack people through other people?"

If you can cast a fireball or shoot an arrow through allies and enemies and only hit your target behind both, then tab targeting is the way to go. 

But if there are collision checks on players and monsters, then free aim is the way to go.

Also, while I havent read every post in this thread, noone seems to mention "/stick", /assist%target or "/setgroundtarget". And these were pretty important in DAoC. I suppose ground targeting will be done by mouse now like in every other game since DAoC. But the way combat went in DAoC was; Tab or "/assist%target"-macro, /stick, then smacking away till dead. Unless it was a 1v1 then it was; Tab, /stick, Perforate artery, run through enemy, /stick, backstabbing till dead or enemy /sticks followed by meh attacks til next evade.

Attacking with a bow though.... Think that was changed by the end of my DAoC stint.. Used to be 2 clicks per attack.. and if you spammed it too fast you would fail the draw or something. So shooting arrows was a timing thing. Cant really remember exactly how it was and not at all what it was changed to.

I would like to see a game that if tab targeting was included, allowed a mix for ranged classes, so they could have tab targeted skills but also have sniper shots or magic bolts using FPS'like aiming.

It ofcourse all comes down to what the engine can handle, latency and so on.. How many players, how much is going on.. Im assuming its pretty damn intensive to check for collision on 50-200 people that are between you and your target, while also checking collision of people themselves.