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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » I think game should have unlimited free trial. Oh god plz read before shooting

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68 posts found
  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

 
OP  2/24/13 12:15:41 PM#41
Originally posted by skyexile

Im all for free to play as it does draw in the numbers, cant say im a fan of most F2P games with the tackiness of cash shops, but what would the benefit be to subscribing then?

This would be the tricky part they would need to figure out. To keep the subscription based feel, free players would need to be inconvenienced in ways that would not hinder their interaction and cooperation with subscribers. A subscriber shouldn't even notice that the person they're working with is a free player.

 

One way might be, like I mentioned earlier, you can't create a new character on an overpopulated realm, that helps toward server/realm pop issues.

Can't use broadband chat channels like region, yell.

Get limited to how much they can play every week. Remember that most f2p players that are there to try it out and become power users, they end up spending a lot of money. In a subscription based f2p the idea is to lure them into becoming subscribers. If they want to spend lots of time in the game, they need to subscribe.

 

I guess the idea would be to treat them like a friend of the family. The subscribers are our family, the free players are our friends. We like you, but you're not family. Gotta find the inconveniences that you would impose on friends of the family while retaining them as friends, but luring them to marry one of your daughters.

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

 
OP  2/24/13 12:25:48 PM#42

Mark Jacobs:

 

 

Subscribers:

 

 

Free players:

  Aethaeryn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 1868

2/24/13 12:33:36 PM#43

For me the problem with F2P is not how it starts out but how it ends up - or simply the fact that it can be changed any time.  I know with a sub that I am getting the entire game for a fee.

Once individual thing are monetized the goal is always going to be to increase that income. . as it should be.  This leads to design decisions being made based on monetization rather than game play.  What starts out as cosmetics and "convenience items" turns into cosmetics and "anti-grind" items. 

Want to increase money coming in to LOTRO. . make the quests require more travel.   I like F2P as a casual player because it still ends up cheaper for me but if I was playing all the time I would be dead set against it.

I would almost rather they launch as a sub and go F2P later. . at least then the entire game is not based around it.

Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

 
OP  2/24/13 12:45:58 PM#44

Oh and finally I just want to point out that bandwidth doesn't cost the amount of money that subscription based services will lead you to believe, this is the foundation for why free to play works in MMOs in the first places.

Since the client for a game like daoc is free and you pay for the privilege to log in and play and can play as much or as little as you would like, the value you are consuming is intangible, as intangible as in-game gold.

The only tangible cost you're consuming is the actual bandwith you're consuming, and obviously that isn't much or f2p just wouldn't work.

Another industry that does free to play but doesn't admit it, are high cost applications like windows OS, Maya, 3d studio max, where the value of their product is intangible, they price them at hundreds ore thousands of dollars fully aware that most people will torrent them, but that businesses will purchase liscenses. (and even businesses lie about how many copies they're using)

But back on topic, the bandwidth that casual f2p gamers consume is negligible. Pandara eats much more bandwidth per user than an MMO does and they're paying customers only fork up $3.99.

Just keep that in mind when thinking out loud about free users putting an MMO out of business. They aren't.

Need to think of them as people that wouldn't be playing the game if it were not free, so not losing money. And if adding a lot of free players to the pool of players enriches the experience of subscribers, well then you're not losing you're gaining.

That was the intent of this suggestion. As a subscriber I would like more people to participate in RvR even if they weren't paying, because it improves my playing experience.

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

 
OP  2/24/13 12:57:16 PM#45
Originally posted by Aethaeryn

For me the problem with F2P is not how it starts out but how it ends up - or simply the fact that it can be changed any time.  I know with a sub that I am getting the entire game for a fee.

Once individual thing are monetized the goal is always going to be to increase that income. . as it should be.  This leads to design decisions being made based on monetization rather than game play.  What starts out as cosmetics and "convenience items" turns into cosmetics and "anti-grind" items. 

Want to increase money coming in to LOTRO. . make the quests require more travel.   I like F2P as a casual player because it still ends up cheaper for me but if I was playing all the time I would be dead set against it.

I would almost rather they launch as a sub and go F2P later. . at least then the entire game is not based around it.

Well its easy to avoid those things and identify when they're incoming.

If the only way possible for you to pay the developer is through subscription fee, there can be no cash shop or diamonds/station cash.

 

I think the biggest problem when people hear free to play they immediately associate cash shops and digital currency.  Those are the only examples we have, so naturally people will assume.

 

Eve online is free to play. I bet a lot of people didn't even know that. They now have a cash shop but they were free to play long before they had a cash shop.

 

So how does a subscription based game like eve online achieve free to play without digital currency nor a cash shop? Well they did it, it worked really well, and nobody had a problem with it. In fact if you were to ask eve players if eve is free to play they would swear that it isn't, but it is.

  Odaman

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/13
Posts: 195

2/24/13 12:57:54 PM#46
It's a good idea because it would give us more action. I'd rather have a sub fee only though as it filters hackers and trolls a bit better than a f2p or even a b2p model. That said I think when the game population starts to become a bit small, allowing f2p account would be a nice way to give the game a more time to thrive.
  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

2/24/13 1:00:32 PM#47

Do you guys even realize how F2P actually make money? What whale actually means.. it is not a guy who spends a $100 a month.. it is an addict who blows through 5-6k+ a month. I used to share an office with one of the companies that run few of these facebook f2p scams, it is puke inducing to just hear how decisions are made in terms of gameplay and getting people addicted

 

in conclusion NO as in F!@# NO!

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

2/24/13 3:48:37 PM#48
Originally posted by aylwynn

This game needs a stable community. Free To Play games could never provide that. They didn't in the past and they won't in the future since many F2P games are "just passing by".

One more problem with Free To Play in Camelot Unchained would be "realmpride" since you could create infinite accounts and play different realms on the same server which would be one more step towards unstable community.

 

Pay To Play is the way for a good and stable community. Even if its small.

The evidence actually speaks to the opposite of that.

If pay to play (subs) offered a good stable community then many newer mmorpgs wouldn't be switching. SW:TOr, Tera, TSW, Age of Conan, Everquest (the newest everquest is also going to be free to play), planetside, Aion, Neverwinter, Guild Wars 2 etc..

All of these games are either switching from your traditional mmo style or developed to be f2p or in GW2's case, buy once and play for free.

Originally posted by nate1980

Some developers have proven that they can remain profitable by releasing a B2P or F2P game, while only offering cosmetics and the like in their cash shop. However, the problem they haven't solved is the revolving door being free creates of the games population. People are just cycling in and out of the game, leaving the dedicated players with no idea who they can rely and depend on in game. MMORPG's need committed members in order to thrive. They need members that are dedicated to the game and its community. Having a subscription as a barrier to entry not only funds future development, but forces the player to commit to playing that game for x amount of time. 

Personally, I'd like to see them charge between $5-$10 dollars a month to support their team and pay for their expenses, and just charge us for content patches. Yet I have no idea what would constitue content in a game where there's no PvE at all. 

And pay to play sub games don't do this? Many people will buy an mmo that uses a subscription, play for the first month or two, then quit.

F2p brings in more players then sub-based games, people that are simply curious and not sure if they'd plop down the box pric e+ sub price, and some of them stay, and purchase in game cash shop items.

 

However I am not sure this topic is even revelant, as Mark has stated CU is going toward a sub model (IIRC, in the recent podcast).

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

2/24/13 5:30:53 PM#49
Originally posted by meddyck
People revolve in and out because games aren't very good. Make a great, fun game and people will keep playing it whether it requires a monthly fee or is free.

That's not entirely true. People revolve in and out even in fun games, because they get bored or are bored with the genre and don't know what they want in addition to some being bad games.

A 14 day free trial the way DAoC does it would fix this problem I think.

  aRtFuLThinG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

2/24/13 5:36:55 PM#50
Originally posted by Hokibukisa

In games where the entertainment is provided by other players, and if there isn't entertainment then people quit the game, then its worth allowing people to play the game for free, if for no other reason than to provide entertainment to your paying subscribers.

 So in other words, you want cannon fodders for you to farm.

Okay, lol.

 

PS: even if free, I don';t think fodders likes to be fodders for very long if they keep on getting killed/beaten on by the same people. All the game will get in the end is a bad reputation.

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

 
OP  2/24/13 5:44:00 PM#51
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by meddyck
People revolve in and out because games aren't very good. Make a great, fun game and people will keep playing it whether it requires a monthly fee or is free.

That's not entirely true. People revolve in and out even in fun games, because they get bored or are bored with the genre and don't know what they want in addition to some being bad games.

A 14 day free trial the way DAoC does it would fix this problem I think.

Yeah that was kind of what I was thinking. Lets say I want to get my friends to play CU with me. I tell them about it, and send them a free trial.

Hell maybe thats the solution.. subscribers acrue trial hours that we can give to people. They can't be horded and used for free subscriptions, but enable us to sponsor our friends that we're trying to get hooked.

I used to play daoc with a guy named Joeey ingame and he was a fantastic healer. We play all kinds of games and sometimes we just don't feel like playing daoc, or feel that paying an extra $15 to play for a couple hours at most every month just isn't worth it. Well we wanted him to log on and play with us so badly a few times that we literally just reactivated his account and payed it for him so that when we wanted him to play with us every once in a while, he could.

Now most people wouldn't do this... but he was a REALLY good healer. xD

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

2/24/13 6:24:10 PM#52
Originally posted by Hokibukisa
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by meddyck
People revolve in and out because games aren't very good. Make a great, fun game and people will keep playing it whether it requires a monthly fee or is free.

That's not entirely true. People revolve in and out even in fun games, because they get bored or are bored with the genre and don't know what they want in addition to some being bad games.

A 14 day free trial the way DAoC does it would fix this problem I think.

Yeah that was kind of what I was thinking. Lets say I want to get my friends to play CU with me. I tell them about it, and send them a free trial.

Hell maybe thats the solution.. subscribers acrue trial hours that we can give to people. They can't be horded and used for free subscriptions, but enable us to sponsor our friends that we're trying to get hooked.

I used to play daoc with a guy named Joeey ingame and he was a fantastic healer. We play all kinds of games and sometimes we just don't feel like playing daoc, or feel that paying an extra $15 to play for a couple hours at most every month just isn't worth it. Well we wanted him to log on and play with us so badly a few times that we literally just reactivated his account and payed it for him so that when we wanted him to play with us every once in a while, he could.

Now most people wouldn't do this... but he was a REALLY good healer. xD

Yeah, I personally think free trail periods are the best way to go. You could have a standard 14 day trial, which is long enough to get a person hooked and ready to pay a subscription if they ever intended to in the first place, then you could also have free trial weeks or months once a year to try to get more players hooked or veteran players that quit back into the game after a meaningful patch.

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2972

2/24/13 10:11:55 PM#53
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by Vannor
Doesn't the name "Unchained" suggest it will be free to play?

Nope.

Well I think it does.. since the only other MMO i know using that word in the title in AOC: Unchained when it went ftp. Why would someone use that name when there are obvious connotations caused by another MMO?

Has the payment model been stated/suggested officially yet?

  gigat

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/24/10
Posts: 603

2/24/13 10:21:27 PM#54

I agree with the OP.  Having a F2P option could produce a larger population, this way there is never a lack of players to fight.

As long as the F2P option doesn't lead to a catastrophic Pay to Win cash shop, then I'm good.

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

 
OP  3/02/13 11:29:22 PM#55

Actually found a concept that is more in line with what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJsedNZ5ZJI

PoxNora - Pay to play, with an unlimited free trial.

  Ice-Queen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

3/03/13 3:16:55 PM#56
Originally posted by gigat

I agree with the OP.  Having a F2P option could produce a larger population, this way there is never a lack of players to fight.

As long as the F2P option doesn't lead to a catastrophic Pay to Win cash shop, then I'm good.

People don't seem to get it. MJ Is not out for millions of players, he's said it's a niche game for a certain type of players and that's what he's going for. Just get use to the fact it's not for you if you don't want to pay a sub fee, and you aren't looking for a smaller, more tight knit,  community who take pride in their realms. F2P and B2P are the worse for mmo's imo.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Tuktz

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 310

3/03/13 3:28:11 PM#57

I'm not trying to harshly shoot you down at all, because I think the F2P model works well with other games...

 

However I disagree with you for what I think Mark is trying to do with Camelot Unchained.

 

There are plenty of other F2P model mmo's out there that work, and are fun, if that's your cup of tea.

 

They're trying to do something special here with CU being RVR only (with crafting and housing), and sub model.

 

The people playing will have a truly vest interest, and would be more than willing to pay a sub. Heck I would pay a normal sub of $15 a month for what he's saying this will be, but I have a feeling with the sub models he's given us hints on, that my sub will be more like between $5 to $10 for this game.

 

With F2P in a game like CU, the population would be a lot bigger than it would be with sub, but it would be a lot of A.D.D. here today, gone tomorrow type players, with no vested interest in their character, their guild, or the game.

For the type of community they're trying to make with this game, F2P would destroy that sense of tight nit community right away.

 

Sure it would give us serious CU players a lot of fodder to kill in RVR, but at the expense of the sense of real community in the game I feel.


MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  Jimmac

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1663

3/03/13 4:12:42 PM#58

I'd rather everyone has to pay money initially to play the game.

This will keep out the large number of bad apples you get with the F2P crowd.

No unlimited free trial. If there is to be a free trial, I hope it is short in time length.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4314

3/03/13 4:16:56 PM#59

If they offered a trial like the OP was suggesting and limited it to other things than rvr it might work well for the game.

The only thing they'd really need on a cash shop is something like plex in eve. The trial players could grind in game cash to buy the "sub"  from other players and that would give them access to the rest of the game.

You wouldn't have people just floating in and out of that part of the game because they'd have as much or more time invested just getting the credits to get into the rvr. The game would have more players because of the option and probably have better battles.

You don't have to have pay to win or "freeloaders" in a f2p game. Those are just the easy targets for ppl who can't think outside their little box.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Dihoru

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2615

3/03/13 4:27:37 PM#60
A freemium model would give you best of both worlds for this game, have housing being sub only, basically cap the top content to subbers but let freemium players in RvR, it will certainly cause zergs but being limited in raw power you can imagine subbers will rape freemium players. Best of both worlds, unlimited trial (free 2 play) but limited in capabilities and without housing (and if a subber goes back to freemium his characters with post freemium skills get locked and/or with houses) ergo you abid counter F2Pers can have allot less of the bad apples running around while also having extra meatshields and possibly players (later).

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