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55 posts found
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/23/13 9:00:36 AM#21

:wave hands:

Okay, stop the thread right there--

It's obvious that people are approaching this thread with very different definitions of what constitutes "Depth".

OP, would you care to elucidate exactly what it is that you are looking for?

the most choices in classes and crafting and skills and of combining skills

All right, from this morning then, was it not Lineage II advertising 32 classes? It's certainly old enough to have "skills" depth, though I haven't seen the game...well, ever (just Lineage I). Crafting--presumably we've looking for a sandbox-level crafting game for that, yes? Maybe?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3542

Hipster

2/23/13 9:03:47 AM#22
Originally posted by rogue187

1. who wants to be a ship?

2. who wants to click to move or walk incredibly slow?

 

 

 

apparently you do...not the rest of us

Irrelevant to the discussion on depth.

lol at choice of WoW for depth.

  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

2/23/13 9:03:52 AM#23
Originally posted by Icewhite

:wave hands:

Okay, stop the thread right there--

It's obvious that people are approaching this thread with very different definitions of what constitutes "Depth".

OP, would you care to elucidate exactly what it is that you are looking for?

The above.

Is it depth in systems, or in content?

Or, say, are you actually talking about breadth, and not depth at all?

Some elaboration is in order. :)

 

EDIT: So, my edit as wall, going on choices of classes and skills... It's somewhere in the EQ line, I'd say. EQ would naturally have more but even EQ2 has both a lot of choices and a lot of content.

 

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5022

2/23/13 9:04:42 AM#24

Eq1 - 19 expansions, unmatched content, lore, faction system, 100 levels over 8000 AAs, insane amount of gear.

Eq2 doesn't even come close, nor does any other game.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/23/13 9:10:36 AM#25
Originally posted by DMKano

Eq1 - 19 expansions, unmatched content, lore, faction system, 100 levels over 8000 AAs, insane amount of gear.

Eq2 doesn't even come close, nor does any other game.

"classes" at last count?

I suspect the op's going to end up at a fairly old title (old=more time to add stuff), once the fanboy pissing contest is over. Which may not be what he really had in mind....

Judging by his one-and-only other post, nothing mentioned so far is very close to what he's really after. TERA, maybe? I'm not well educated on Manga-y MMOs. FFXIV?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

2/23/13 9:24:24 AM#26
Originally posted by Aerowyn

my vote would be EvE

for themeparks Rift is fun for combinations and now each class has an extra soul which totals 9 each class now i believe.. you have a pretty incredible amount of options.. when I played there were plenty of cookie cutters but you could also make tons of very good combinations on your own that worked great

While you may have a lot of choices to build your class, the resulting class plays much more shallow than its EQ2 or LOTRO (which has a surprising amount of depth) counterparts.  The PA is a joke and offers no strategy to it whatsoever (unlike EQ2 AA).  Crafting is as simplistic as it gets and the gear stat design is also fairly simplistic.  Everything in Rift is just so straightforward outside of the skill trees.  Those skill trees are enough to put it ahead of WoW, but not any higher.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/23/13 9:27:33 AM#27
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Aerowyn

my vote would be EvE

for themeparks Rift is fun for combinations and now each class has an extra soul which totals 9 each class now i believe.. you have a pretty incredible amount of options.. when I played there were plenty of cookie cutters but you could also make tons of very good combinations on your own that worked great

While you may have a lot of choices to build your class, the resulting class plays much more shallow than its EQ2 or LOTRO (which has a surprising amount of depth) counterparts.  The PA is a joke and offers no strategy to it whatsoever (unlike EQ2 AA).  Crafting is as simplistic as it gets and the gear stat design is also fairly simplistic.  Everything in Rift is just so straightforward outside of the skill trees.  Those skill trees are enough to put it ahead of WoW, but not any higher.

yea ill agree outside skill trees game doesn't offer much depth..

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  sanshi44

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1044

2/23/13 9:29:30 AM#28
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by sanshi44
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by rogue187
just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't have depth...it has more content than any game out there...it can ( as a noob) keep you busy for years.. it kept me busy...like i said it depends on your outlook of what "in depth" is...

Im going to assume this is just trolling, but in case it isnt...

 

EQ2 (the game that came out within 2 weeks of WoW) beats WoW in content and its not remotely close.  And amount fo content isnt a big factor in depth anyway.

 

themepark depth order:

EQ2

LOTRO

RIFT

WoW

TERA

SWToR

Ill agree with ur list there, however i qould put Everquest 1 somewhere before rift (although old game it did have alot of depth in it atleast i reckon it does) I would also consider putting vanguard in there aswell somewhere although i havant played vanguard from what i heard it definetly deserve a spot in that list.

I dont consider EQ1 a themepark (I think quest hubs are a defining themepark feature, EQs leveling structure is far too open ended), but VG does get slotted probably right above Rift.

I agree with u here again, i also dont beleive the OP specified weather or not he wanted a themepark which is why i said EQ although i could of missed it. :P

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

2/23/13 9:29:44 AM#29
Originally posted by Icewhite

All right, from this morning then, was it not Lineage II advertising 32 classes? It's certainly old enough to have "skills" depth, though I haven't seen the game...well, ever (just Lineage I). Crafting--presumably we've looking for a sandbox-level crafting game for that, yes? Maybe?

DAoC has close to 50 classes, each with various skill paths to choose from.  

 

But for me, depth is much more than sheer numbers.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/23/13 9:31:12 AM#30
Originally posted by strangiato2112

But for me, depth is much more than sheer numbers.

Agreed

Originally posted by Icewhite

Judging by his one-and-only other post, nothing mentioned so far is very close to what he's really after. TERA, maybe? I'm not well educated on Manga-y MMOs. FFXIV?

 

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

2/23/13 9:34:12 AM#31

Age of Conan 

Lotro

EvE

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
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Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
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  Comaf

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1133

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

2/23/13 9:36:35 AM#32

LONG REPLY:

 

Depthwise, I personally like to look at how a fantasy world would really play out (as if it were a real place).

 

MMORPGS create fantasy mmorpgs where players all start on a beach and end up beating each other down fairly soon afterwards (age of conan), or they run freely between quests, possibly sneering at each other while pveing together before meeting each other once more in a pvp zone for some action (TSW). 

 

There are a lot of examples of just oversimplified mmorpg concepts where folks pvp for really no reason at all.  WIth GW2, we had another same race class e-sport example of pvp...same races beating each other down for various reasons.  While I know that can be fun - I don't see it as depth.  Race, culture and religion were very very important in the ancient to medieval (and heck even now) world.  That being said:

 

Dark Age of Camelot peaked with 44 classes and 24 races.  Three realms were offered to choose from in which you would level a particular race class combination that fit into the culture of the realm you chose.  These different realms didn't chat it up in a local town, nor did they see each other running through each other's capitals, towns, and so forth.  Because in reality the guards would have killed the enemy realm on sight - so who would even want to go there?

 

RvR was not a flah capture or something that mimicked what we did on the playground as kids.  Dark Age of Camelot offered siege defense and offense - i.e., the taking of keeps, towers and castles by either reclaiming your own or taking the keept tower or castle of any enemy realm.  In certain combination your realm could capture relics and bring them back in order to grant benefits to your entire realm.  A warpam displayed the 24 hour a day 7 day a week conflict as strongholds flipped back and forth between armies.

 

Three mythologies:

 

The three realms were based on real to life lore that we all know.  Albion represented Arthurian lore, along with Camelot and her knights, Midgard represented Nordic lore, along with Odin, Thor and so forth as example deities, and architecture, armor, weapon and clothing styles that matched the Viking conquest period of the 9th century.  Finally we had Hibernia, the land of Gaels and Celts, Elves and so forth...and the emerald isle herself. 

 

Each realm had 1-50th level zones and her own massive persistant PvP/RvR frontiers.  The pve zones were a place to immerse into your particular culture, drink a few cold ones and share stories with your group mates while you raided lore based content in your realm. 

 

Hibernia alone had 20 zones (that I recall) for levling, 18 dungeons,  4 RvR frontier zones, 9 housing zones, 26 instanced dungeons (mostly for leveling up) and one outdoor instance (The Foothills of Hibernia).  In this single example of a realm, you had Celt, Firbolg, Lurikeen, Sylvan, Shar or Minotaur to choose from for a race.  You could be a druid, bard, or warden for heal based races, a hero, champion, valewalker or blademaster for melee based, a nightshade or ranger for stealth based, an eldritch, enchanter, animist or mentalist for caster based.  Each of these classes had a numbe of paths to follow - there was epic armor that matched your particular class...a massive crafting system and so forth.

 

That's all on one realm.  There are two others - is that depth enough for you? =D

 

Just as a side note, with the kickstarter implemented for Camelot Unchained (which continues many of Dark Age of Camelot's concepts) and Elder Scrolls Online (which takes some of Dark Age of Camelot's concepts)....you will have a fresh wash of in depth mmorpg experiences coming your way in the coming year(s).

 

Until that time please just enjoy whatever you find to be fun, whether WoW (which is a massive project) or GW2 for some fun not so serious pvp action...or what have you.  Fun is going to be unique to your presepective.  Again, if you want depth...

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/23/13 9:38:13 AM#33
OTOH vaporware can be considered 0 depth.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1851

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

2/23/13 9:41:32 AM#34

looks like every is posting his favorite here eh?

as long you bitch @wow it seems to be a valid opinion *G*

 

on the other hand, wow offers more depth and content than most of the named games (not talking about eq here with it's sheer mass of expensions).

eve has alot of depth? how deep can you go? all you can do is choose your ship fullfill the trinity (tank, dd, support) and then either mine, do "fly here kill this" missions, pvp or explore the unkown, those 4 options are imo, very deep... totaly agreed)

 

 

 

if it's all about numbers for you, i suggest to find an online calculator. all those numbers you can enter there, and you can do so much funny trhings with em, add, substract... mulitiply!

first multiplier mmo ever actually!

 

be a 5! add 3 and substract 2. 

team up with other numbers to form impressigly high numbers (as a nine with 3 zeros you can actually do a 9000!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/23/13 9:46:44 AM#35

Wonder if the op had any clue about the hornet's nest he poked with his stick.

Anyway, should he ever return: I tried, dude. Sorry if my guesses were wrong.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2210

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

2/23/13 9:55:18 AM#36
Originally posted by Icewhite

Wonder if the op had any clue about the hornet's nest he poked with his stick.

Anyway, should he ever return: I tried, dude. Sorry if my guesses were wrong.

With his almost complete non-presence, in the thread, I'd say poking the hornets nest may have been intentional.

So my two cents:

The game with the most depth to me is the one with the deepest holes.

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

2/23/13 9:58:04 AM#37

I think some of you may be aided by understanding the difference between Depth and Complexity.

Watch This

Eve is complex.

I would guess an MMO with depth would be one that has multiple viable builds per class.  Where the process of choosing what synergies you want in your character is a practice of opportunity cost rather than choosing what is most powerful.

Having multiple builds per class would make combat have more depth due to the amount of different abilities that can be brought to the field.  This also makes each individual class take longer to master.

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/23/13 10:44:30 AM#38
Originally posted by Maephisto

I think some of you may be aided by understanding the difference between Depth and Complexity.

Watch This

Eve is complex.

I would guess an MMO with depth would be one that has multiple viable builds per class.  Where the process of choosing what synergies you want in your character is a practice of opportunity cost rather than choosing what is most powerful.

Having multiple builds per class would make combat have more depth due to the amount of different abilities that can be brought to the field.  This also makes each individual class take longer to master.

 

Dunno, eve seems deep from the pov of offering different experiences based on your choices.

You can have billions of viable builds (mandatory d3 jab), but if you are still required to supply 10k dps at endgame as everyone else...

Flame on!

:)

 

  vorathian

Novice Member

Joined: 2/12/13
Posts: 6

2/23/13 10:50:52 AM#39
Hands down DDO. Name another game that has multiclassing, racial ehancement system, class ehancements....and substantial differences between races and classes. So in regards to depth and real character customization DDO. At first I didnt like all the instancing but the depth of the game's actual mechanics and how much fun it is keeps me playing. If you want to give it a try play a cleaving fighter :)
  Insane666

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/08
Posts: 66

2/23/13 11:02:32 AM#40
im bit of biased here by my undieing love to the game, even tho im on a break that already takes like 3 years, but for me it always was and still is Anarchy Online, no other game offers such a depth when it comes to developing your character, not even Eve,,,

Games previously played: AO, AoC, Aion, AoW, Eve, SWTor, WaR, STO, TSW, DCUO, FE, BP, ProjectEntropia, FootballSuperstars!

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