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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » IF a mmorpg company listened to their community 99% would the game be better?

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115 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1434

2/22/13 3:03:40 PM#101

Originally posted by MightyChasm

Originally posted by azmundai  

Originally posted by MightyChasm

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by n00n3r In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  
 Read his question again. Anyone voting no is not reading. How can a game be better if it doesnt have what the person playing it wants?!? lol... Anyway, a game loses players because the game is not what the player is looking for so any company ignoring what players want is a company looking to not retain customers. /rolleyes /smackhead The people saying no, are people like you...that are only pushing THEIR OWN needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game, and whats good for the game is to retain as many people as possible to keep revenues high and the game growing, and going.
I did read the question - A game developer has a vision and makes a game based on that vision. Many of the gaem developers are gamers also, so they do know what is wanted/neded but still they need to be true to their own vision.
That sounded a little like 'nonsense speak' mate.  Yeah developer should create their own vision, but that is a small part of selling a game, and so small as to not invalidate other people's views
  1000 players want a skill based game where you raise certain skills, but don't have levels. 1000 players want a tree based skill system with levels. 50% of what the players want will not be in the game, and this is an over simplified example. There are 100s of variations of the two basic ideas I just posted. In the end YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.
were you agreeing with me or disagreeing? 

if I had to guess, id say neither, or both.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3675

2/22/13 3:10:06 PM#102
Originally posted by n00n3r

In many cases the company should NOT listen to the gamers because quite often the gamers are pushing their needs/wants ahead of whats good for the game.  

And, in my experience, many gamers are just plain stupid in regards to game balance and beneficial game mechanics.


Kinda what I was thinking too......Listening to half of these people in chat yo usure wouldn't want them to decide how the game was going to be played......Half of them cant even construct a sentence, not to mention what should be in a MMO.......Also gamers have no clue what they do and don't want.....Ask 10 different gamers what they think the death sentence should be and you'll probably get 10 different answers.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 877

2/22/13 3:10:28 PM#103

Feed does help.

The problem can be when the feedback is based on content that is being released, rather than feedback helping with developing content.

So in most/all cases the feedback only begins after the devs. make the core features of their new content and feedback is limited in that scope.

So devs need to be iniuitive, creative, adaptative, and current with the range of demands. Then the core development is from those demands which then devs recieve feedback on will be from customers who are more involved and knowledgable when there are forum discussions.

Also I can see getting the community too involved can backfire as well. However, with MMOs, developing what customers want is very important since there is a lot of feedback from players. So devs. need to intelligently develop content which adds the most value to their game abdsatsufying their customers as well. Which seems to work in games like WoW and content being developed well, but in other games, they seem to be holding back on features which would add more to the Gand and is in great demand by their players but devs made no effort to develop those features.



“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”


Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/06
Posts: 4793

Functionless Art is Simply Tolerated Vandalism...We Are The Vandals.

2/22/13 3:15:49 PM#104
No, the game would be constantly pulled in too many directions. If they changed every little thing everytime someone started whining and threatening to leave(and somehow take the entire population of the game with them) it would turn into a big mess.

Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/22/13 3:19:59 PM#105
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by jtcgs

 The developers vision has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUESTION.

A game being "better" is based on the opinion of the person asking and thus "a company listening" would mean listening to YOU...and since nobody is going to ask for something they DONT would mean you asking for something YOU want.

So, if you think a game wont be better because of something YOU want being in it...then, ban for actually saying what you are.

He asked a trap question, you fell for it hard.

I said no because FANS say they want one thing but will play something else because it is what they are used to not what they want. Example, look at how people play the game Rift. There are so many neat build but they all pare down to Warrior = Tank, Cleric = Healer, Rouge, Ele = DPS. People want things to fit in their comfort zone not what is outside of it.

 Yet how many million are playing Guild Wars 2 that doesnt have the holy trinity? Yet how many are still playing that thing called TSW? How many people played and liked SWG? How many did the same with AC1?

Doesnt is NOT the question. Which you cannot seem to comprehend because of the derp.

“I hope we shall its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson


Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2829

World > Quest Progression

2/22/13 3:28:38 PM#106
In general terms no, I don't think decisions made 99% by players would make the game better because they aren't designers. They only balance their opinion based on thier gameplay and could be missing relevant info "behind the scenes".

There are indeed people knowledgable in the community that provide great feedback but they are a small minority. I do think random polls and a good feedback system should be a part of every game. The results would be private but it would let the company read the pulse of the playerbase. They ultimately decide what to risk and spend on and if a company doesn't trust the dev team why would they be there in the first place?

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1989

2/22/13 3:30:05 PM#107

In PVP I think that people are quick to rat out someone that is overpowered. With the right numbers, yes they should be heard.

The game overall though has to have a theme, if you stray from that, even if it's requested, you leave yourself open to losing those that came for that reason. Yes, I'm thinking about GW2 doing that within 6 mos. of opening.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/10
Posts: 513

2/22/13 3:32:28 PM#108
Originally posted by greenreen

In PVP I think that people are quick to rat out someone that is overpowered. With the right numbers, yes they should be heard.

The game overall though has to have a theme, if you stray from that, even if it's requested, you leave yourself open to losing those that came for that reason. Yes, I'm thinking about GW2 doing that within 6 mos. of opening.

What did GW2?  Im actually curiously asking because I never played but what large MMo's do interests me... and I don't care if it hijacks the thread!

Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent


Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1989

2/22/13 4:03:03 PM#109
Originally posted by Edeus
Originally posted by greenreen

In PVP I think that people are quick to rat out someone that is overpowered. With the right numbers, yes they should be heard.

The game overall though has to have a theme, if you stray from that, even if it's requested, you leave yourself open to losing those that came for that reason. Yes, I'm thinking about GW2 doing that within 6 mos. of opening.

What did GW2?  Im actually curiously asking because I never played but what large MMo's do interests me... and I don't care if it hijacks the thread!

They said that they didn't like grind and wanted people to have multiple paths to enjoy themselves. Then they made a new set of high level gear (3 pieces to start with) about 3 mos after opening and made a new dungeon to get it from. Oops, our fault they say that the only way they released it was to go to the dungeon to get it. I think I left about 3 mos. ago and they still don't have any alternate ways to get it... but they are working on it. Sure, right alone with everything else they are doing. They said they would release with guesting... still not there. Can you believe people are cheering them on when they do talk about working on guesting - people act like it was never promised for release and that it's a NEW thing. As if they are being given something that wasn't supposed to already be in place.

There were hundreds of bugs in classes yet they started doing balance before all the skills and traits even work right. It's all rushed and way too much for them to handle. Do you have all your skills and traits when they don't work as they should? Is that sensical to start balancing things. Like Wv3 they had no new maps yet the paid version of PVP gets dupes of the new gear and they keep adding maps while in Wv3 they still have problems with invisible players and invisible groups killing people. That they claimed to have a fix for a few times and last I read after mos. being gone, still isn't fixed. It's so much to list. The biggest thing has been that they strayed from their original manifesto and a little over 11k people called them on it so they closed the thread. The manifesto was them claiming they were doing all sorts of things that didn't happen.

They said events would change the world, not true, events restart about every 10 minutes.

They said they didn't want grind then made a dungeon with "resistance" gating for higher levels that runs infinitely, gave daily, and monthly achievements and now they force them onto the UI to remind you that you HAVE to do these. I haven't seen anything but a screenshot on that one, been gone since they did it.

They only talked about PVP on their twitch cast and made it look like a PVP based endgame. Three months into it the only thing people wanted to do was run dungeons. My server dropped from T1 to T3 because we couldn't get enough people to participate. Also on their twitch page they kept saying they would release the game when it was ready, no second earlier, well baby it wasn't ready. Class bugs, invisible pvp enemies and friends, events that never worked, that game was far from ready.

There was no way to make reliable money in PVP either and there was armor repair cost so I had to PVE to afford to PVP. Grinding creatures and events resulted in diminished returns to the point where you could incur a permanent loot debuff making dungeons, once again, the only way to make good money from cash returned on boss kills. Here's an example of how bad the loot drops could be. I had a light armor character and played from level 40 to level 80 and got NO light armor gear drops. Not something I didn't want or with the wrong stats, point blank, nothing at all gear related. At 80 I was wearing level 6 jewelry. When people called them on the bad drops, they called it "perceived" and told them to show proof. They were just stretching for time, at the end all they said was - oh high level mobs, yeah they don't drop enough loot all the time. That was after about 2 mos. of the thread running with posts over and over saying - I'm not getting any drops. Why do I have to prove this to you - don't you have logs of what is going on in the game?

They don't want people to make money in the game. Someone made money selling food to vendors after crafting it, they said he exploited then banned him then went back on the ban - long story research 'Kripparrian'. This should get you started. I was on his cast the night he did this "exploit" skip to about 8:30 in the video.  They took all the prices away from food. You can't vendor it - ever. Everyone puts their food on the auction house and since it has no vendor price - it just keeps dropping in value untill it's down to 1 penny/ 1 copper. They destroyed the ability to make money from mid or low level food crafting. Lots of their crafts can be sold to the vendor for more money than you can get from an auction house. Except for food, food never got a vendor price back. They just broke it and walked away never to return or think about it again.

All roads led to doing dungeons and that has continued in force since I left. Dungeons after have armor sets behind them if you grind out dungeon tokens. The days before I left the only thing in general chat was people looking for dungeon groups. It's so prevalent that outside people made a site to find groups to try to get it out of general chat! Days before at least there was conversation peppered into it. Now it was all about the dungeon - all the time. Now they have their old wow babies there trying to recreate what they know, they have asked for gear scores and dungeon finders and dps monitors and few are there to tell them no. The people that didn't want those things have been replaced. The good thing for the game is that they make their money on the box price, once they get that, they don't care if you stay or not. They got it out of the people they won over with the manifesto, then they changed the gameplay to call in the next group. I've already said I expect their next push to call themselves  a sandbox to sell more boxes lol

If you can't make money - you can buy it from them, who is surprised. Give it to me then take it away, classic bait and switch. How many lies do they have to make before you should outright point the finger and say - you, sah, are a liar. Oops, I forgot to link the manifesto they sold the game on

TLDR - it's a dungeon game



Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 2220

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

2/22/13 4:05:43 PM#110

we'd have a game 50% populated by flying unicorns shooting rainbows out of their horns and farting epix, and the other half being huge boobed, 4 armed sword swinging demons with lasers as their eyes.


uh yea, and there'd be 2 or 3 humans complaining about everything else being OP and skillless :P

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"


Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 779

This Rabbit stinks!

2/22/13 4:15:57 PM#111
No, people are ignorant and egotistical and gamers are people.

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/13
Posts: 5

2/22/13 4:19:57 PM#112
Originally posted by Darth-Batman
No, people are ignorant and egotistical and gamers are people.

and you are one of them? 


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 960

2/22/13 4:22:26 PM#113

companies should have a clear design strategy, and stick to it, they should listen to the community but only make the changes that made sense according to their strategy.

the problem with "listening to the community", is that most of said community never want to be in contact with the developers, but simply want to enjoy the the minority get to talk for the majority.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1719

2/23/13 10:38:30 PM#114

For the most part I don't think a company should listen to their players much.  They should definitely be gathering data though...  For instance, I have played so many MMOs where everyone is building the same character with the same gear and grinding in the same areas.  If those companies were doing their job and watching the data, they would see the massive shift towards certain builds and players farming certain dungeons/areas.  Then they could nerf or buff as needed.  Same goes for PvP; if the data keeps showing that one build always beats another build, then that needed to be either deliberate or it needs to be fixed.

If the company is going to listen to the players, they need to do it properly.  Simply put:  In-game polling.  Polling is the only real way to gauge player opinion when you have so many players and only a very small group of them are vocal.  By putting the polling in game you reach more casual players, who matter just as much as any other player.

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Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

2/23/13 10:56:19 PM#115

No because most people are idiots........


Everyone gets a freggin say in who represents us in government and look how well THATS working out. 


Personally I think democracy is dead.  Because when everyone is ass retarded the only things that will ever be result of that is...more.....retarded things. 


Wanna know my idea?  Everyone has to take an IQ test.  If their IQ is below 120 they aren't allowed to post on the net or open their mouths at all outside of their own homes.  How about that. 


Then we could rely on what other people say.  Somewhat.  Except for the smart asses.  Which there are plenty of those too.  #&$(#$)!!!!!  Just forget it. 

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