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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » You'r view on Ascended items?

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230 posts found
  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 7:51:17 AM#161
Originally posted by itgrowls

@Gaia_Hunter

There should always be a debate when dealing with a company that goes against their own word on how their game will be designed. It's the equivalent of bait and switch essentially. 

"OH YEAH! OUR elite philosophy is to give the players what they want which is a more horizontal gameplay where you choose how you wanna play and we give you the most options. Everyone can play how they wish and get rewarded for their time. WE don't believe in forcing players to grind endlessly for anything"  -- Nov 15th Ascended gear via RNG thru endless Fractal Runs, Jan 28th released MORE RNG bags for T6 mats for crafting excluding the hardest ones to find anywhere Lodestones, Gossamer scraps, Powerful Bloods, and offered the new grind system, Laurels.

But we're supposed to believe they learned their lessons alright. Scare away the players that would have stayed with them for as long as possible and would have happily supported their store without being coerced into spending money on gems.

Ascended gear isn't an RNG through Fractals. You need to get caught up on current events before you go making things up about the game. You do the daily Fractals (level 10 + even numbered Maw), collect Pristine Fractal Relics, and turn in ten for a ring. In addition to that, you may get a ring from the daily chest... that's in addition to the guaranteed after ten relics part. Ten runs is hardly grinding endlessly, especially when there's a good chance you'll need even less than that. 

 

What Anet was specifying is the "required grind" you have with lesser MMOs like WoW. In WoW, you're forced to grind gear sets to proceed to the next tier of raid/dungeons. In GW2 you're never forced to grind anything for end game content. All dungeons can be run in gear below exotics, and you can fully equip yourself with exotics as soon as you hit 80 through karma vendors, crafting, WvW or even the trading post. There is NO required grind in this game.

 

Odd... they've added a means for players to convert extra karma (that was being wasted) to gold and T6 materials and you're complaining that that is somehow a bad thing? I've converted a few hundred thousand karma into a few gold and a little stash of T6 mats and still have karma to spare. They add a user friendly means to gather more materials and gold without grinding and somehow you twist that into them being less user friendly? You ain't right.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 7:55:40 AM#162
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 

ANET did lie to us. See the quotes i posted earlier. Go read all their blog posts, articles and interviews and then go read all their stuff post nov 15th.
Not only did they lie about better stats on gear but also about why ascended was implemented in the game.

And yes the game did change into a dungeon grind for many players. For over 2 months the games open world was devoid of people and even now dungeon loot totally outclasses open world loot. How the hell is that inline with their vision of the game? How is that not a broken game? Yes they fixed it a bit but that just confirms what i said.

ANET is now like a totally different company. One that makes errors and stupid decisions left and right, one that sacrifices their own ideals. How can i trust a company like that?
Also by saying no new tier this year tells us that they either now have no vision for the game or are being controlled by someone else at a whim.

If you after 10 years of MMOs with stat progression can not see where this is going then i cant help you. Also your analogy is completely off.

Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.

Guess that explains this huh. Ascended gear does not have the same stats. That's the future of the dungeon grind system they have planned for Ascended gear. No crafting, no mystic forge, not loot drops from champions ALL with higher stats.

How disingenuous you are. You completely left out the gems for the exotics. With the gem, the amulet gives +11 power, +6 precision, +1% crit damage. That's it. The ascended items include the stats you'd get from the gems.

 

Nice try. Hell, you're not even comparing comparable items. 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  User Deleted
2/22/13 8:03:08 AM#163
Originally posted by Volkon

How disingenuous you are. You completely left out the gems for the exotics. With the gem, the amulet gives +11 power, +6 precision, +1% crit damage. That's it. The ascended items include the stats you'd get from the gems.

 

Nice try. Hell, you're not even comparing comparable items. 

Pretty much sums up his expertise of the game. Its no wonder that with that superficial knowledge you blame gear when you get beaten in WvWvW or fail a dungeon :)

  User Deleted
2/22/13 8:04:07 AM#164
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by itgrowls

@Gaia_Hunter

There should always be a debate when dealing with a company that goes against their own word on how their game will be designed. It's the equivalent of bait and switch essentially. 

"OH YEAH! OUR elite philosophy is to give the players what they want which is a more horizontal gameplay where you choose how you wanna play and we give you the most options. Everyone can play how they wish and get rewarded for their time. WE don't believe in forcing players to grind endlessly for anything"  -- Nov 15th Ascended gear via RNG thru endless Fractal Runs, Jan 28th released MORE RNG bags for T6 mats for crafting excluding the hardest ones to find anywhere Lodestones, Gossamer scraps, Powerful Bloods, and offered the new grind system, Laurels.

But we're supposed to believe they learned their lessons alright. Scare away the players that would have stayed with them for as long as possible and would have happily supported their store without being coerced into spending money on gems.

Ascended gear isn't an RNG through Fractals. You need to get caught up on current events before you go making things up about the game. You do the daily Fractals (level 10 + even numbered Maw), collect Pristine Fractal Relics, and turn in ten for a ring. In addition to that, you may get a ring from the daily chest... that's in addition to the guaranteed after ten relics part. Ten runs is hardly grinding endlessly, especially when there's a good chance you'll need even less than that. 

 

What Anet was specifying is the "required grind" you have with lesser MMOs like WoW. In WoW, you're forced to grind gear sets to proceed to the next tier of raid/dungeons. In GW2 you're never forced to grind anything for end game content. All dungeons can be run in gear below exotics, and you can fully equip yourself with exotics as soon as you hit 80 through karma vendors, crafting, WvW or even the trading post. There is NO required grind in this game.

 

Odd... they've added a means for players to convert extra karma (that was being wasted) to gold and T6 materials and you're complaining that that is somehow a bad thing? I've converted a few hundred thousand karma into a few gold and a little stash of T6 mats and still have karma to spare. They add a user friendly means to gather more materials and gold without grinding and somehow you twist that into them being less user friendly? You ain't right.

First of all I'm not making this up, you get RNG from chests and that was their original goal for the fractals until people started to make fun of them in their own forums for introducing a grind system into the game where dungeons were never meant to be the focus and neither was a gear grind for a made-up gap they claimed was there (but added themselves) to add this gear right after launch. They also claimed early on that this gear would be received from running dungeons. Well guess what, we have yet to see them add the gear to the dungeons haven't we and most likely what they'll do is make these drops RNG because someone over there loves the hell out of RNG as much as they love the number 250. 

Seocnd, They haven't changed their plans regarding this. Just because you can get jewelry thru their fractal store does not mean the rest of the gear is going to be like this. They loooooove RNG. They've loved it far far too much, They are so in love with RNG that it took the complaints of the players leaving like crazy after Nov to get them to even develop a laurel system in the first place. Also there will be and they have announced this the need to have agony gear equipped to see future content in the dungeons they plan on releasing that require agony gear AKA Ascended. How exactly do you get off lying to people about how that's not gated content or that's not required gearing just to see content no one else can see? hmm? Care to explain?

Third, their system for T6 mats STILL doesn't help the new players get gear. That's the whole issue with the economy right now. It's so inflated that no one can get anything without serious grinding forever. They have RNG to get the heavy bags which have RNG when you open them and now they have RNG bags that you spend Laurels on not Karma and they are STILL missing the point (and apparently so are you) about why we need a karma vendor with the three types of the most impossibru to find materials ever in any game, I could go out and find Antimatter faster then I can find a Powerful Blood these days.Seriously don't pretend. Even WoW had the ability to buy the rare mats directly that one needed to craft eventually sheesh. And despite their discovery of the qualification problems with loot ie the T6 mats, It's STILL been reported by players who do get loot still that they have a horrendous time getting the three most rare T6 mats that anyone who needs burst gear needs.

  User Deleted
2/22/13 8:10:59 AM#165
Originally posted by SonicTHI

ANET did lie to us. See the quotes i posted earlier. Go read all their blog posts, articles and interviews and then go read all their stuff post nov 15th.
Not only did they lie about better stats on gear but also about why ascended was implemented in the game.

And yes the game did change into a dungeon grind for many players. For over 2 months the games open world was devoid of people and even now dungeon loot totally outclasses open world loot. How the hell is that inline with their vision of the game? How is that not a broken game? Yes they fixed it a bit but that just confirms what i said.

ANET is now like a totally different company. One that makes errors and stupid decisions left and right, one that sacrifices their own ideals. How can i trust a company like that?
Also by saying no new tier this year tells us that they either now have no vision for the game or are being controlled by someone else at a whim.

If you after 10 years of MMOs with stat progression can not see where this is going then i cant help you. Also your analogy is completely off.

1. No they didnt lie to you. They never stated "EXOTIC" is the final tier. ever.

2. And thats self inflicted. Funny how the game didnt change to dungeon grind for me. Hmmm. Open world was fine, i actuallly enoyed no zergs but appropriate number of players. Dungeon loot dont outclass anything. You get more of same loot but it certanly isnt detrimental to anything. It seems youre all about loot, maybe GW franchise isnt for you.

3. You dont have to trust anything. And i heard tinfoil hats are a must.

4. let us all use our crytstal balls, someone will eventually be right

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 8:22:31 AM#166
Originally posted by itgrowls

First of all I'm not making this up, you get RNG from chests and that was their original goal for the fractals until people started to make fun of them in their own forums for introducing a grind system into the game where dungeons were never meant to be the focus and neither was a gear grind for a made-up gap they claimed was there (but added themselves) to add this gear right after launch. They also claimed early on that this gear would be received from running dungeons. Well guess what, we have yet to see them add the gear to the dungeons haven't we and most likely what they'll do is make these drops RNG because someone over there loves the hell out of RNG as much as they love the number 250. 

Seocnd, They haven't changed their plans regarding this. Just because you can get jewelry thru their fractal store does not mean the rest of the gear is going to be like this. They loooooove RNG. They've loved it far far too much, They are so in love with RNG that it took the complaints of the players leaving like crazy after Nov to get them to even develop a laurel system in the first place. Also there will be and they have announced this the need to have agony gear equipped to see future content in the dungeons they plan on releasing that require agony gear AKA Ascended. How exactly do you get off lying to people about how that's not gated content or that's not required gearing just to see content no one else can see? hmm? Care to explain?

Third, their system for T6 mats STILL doesn't help the new players get gear. That's the whole issue with the economy right now. It's so inflated that no one can get anything without serious grinding forever. They have RNG to get the heavy bags which have RNG when you open them and now they have RNG bags that you spend Laurels on not Karma and they are STILL missing the point (and apparently so are you) about why we need a karma vendor with the three types of the most impossibru to find materials ever in any game, I could go out and find Antimatter faster then I can find a Powerful Blood these days.Seriously don't pretend. Even WoW had the ability to buy the rare mats directly that one needed to craft eventually sheesh. And despite their discovery of the qualification problems with loot ie the T6 mats, It's STILL been reported by players who do get loot still that they have a horrendous time getting the three most rare T6 mats that anyone who needs burst gear needs.

Wow... look at you... still going strong and still being wrong. 

You don't get RNG from chests in Fractals for ascended gear. There's RNG only with the daily where people were seeing something like a 20% chance to get an ascended ring from the daily completion rewards. They added the gear at the vendor to make them even more accessible. 

Second, they've already stated there are going to be multiple ways to get ascended items. (Note: this makes them even more accessible to everyone... you have a choice of a variety of means to get them.) You get jewelry through not only the Fractal vendor right now, but also the laurel vendor. Coming relatively soon, the WvW vendors will have them available. Beyond that... we don't know. I suspect there will be an additional means tied to the guild missions, but that's speculation.

 

They've NEVER said you'll need agony resist gear to see future dungeons. Ever. That is a lie.

 

Third. Another lie. Simply playing the story through to the end will net you more than enough karma to get at least a couple pieces of exotic gear. Dailies, events, WvW... these all add to the karma pool which you can then use at the vendors in Orr. Exotics can be crafted as well, which the added means to acquire T6 mats definitely helps with. You can't find Powerful Blood? It's on the TP, it drops fairly well in Southsun if you feel like killing karkas for it... hell, you can even craft Powerful Blood if you need to! The only time you really need to grind for it is when you voluntarily choose to grind to craft specific items that require a lot, such as legendary weapons, certain ascended back pieces (yeah, you can craft them as well), etc.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

2/22/13 8:25:46 AM#167
When people start throwing accuations liks you are a liar or your are spreading misinformation etc..it is always a good thing to insert a relevent link for rest of the forum readers. Otherwie, it is just two people bickering and fighting back and forth.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  SonicTHI

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 158

2/22/13 8:26:47 AM#168


Originally posted by Volkon
Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.



I m sorry i should have to expressed myself clearer in that regard. No need to being a condescending prick though on your part.
Dungeons drop better loot. No that doesnt mean stuff in dungeons is plain statistically better, it means the loot there is better. Means you get more greens instead of blues. Means you get more rares and exotics. Means for anyone playing the game looking to achieve most things they ll want to play dungeons. Its also the fastest way of getting ascended gear.

Take things in context and argue the whole point instead of just taking one thing twisting it around and calling me a liar.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 8:38:23 AM#169
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 


Originally posted by Volkon
Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.


 

I m sorry i should have to expressed myself clearer in that regard. No need to being a condescending prick though on your part.
Dungeons drop better loot. No that doesnt mean stuff in dungeons is plain statistically better, it means the loot there is better. Means you get more greens instead of blues. Means you get more rares and exotics. Means for anyone playing the game looking to achieve most things they ll want to play dungeons. Its also the fastest way of getting ascended gear.

Take things in context and argue the whole point instead of just taking one thing twisting it around and calling me a liar.

Apology accepted. However you're still... inaccurate. I've been "achieving the most things" in the game and rarely if ever step foot in a dungeon. I have 5 80s now, working a sixth, in full exotics and my mesmer main has a couple bits of ascended. Only the rings were from Fractals, the amulet was from simply doing the dailies. 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

2/22/13 8:39:15 AM#170
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Volkon

You're doing it wrong. When you consider the change in stats overall for your character when you upgrade from the exotic to the ascended you see about a .33% increase in the primary. Comparing them to each other is meaningless when you consider they're adding the value to a considerably larger number. I'm basing these numbers on this:

 

I just got the berserker equivalent amulet to replace my ruby orichalcum amulet of the berserker.


Ascended Amulet: 126 power, 85 precision,  9% crit
Ruby-ori  Berserk:   115 power, 79 precision,  8% crit
Base: 1867 power, 1684 precision, 35% crit

The new amulet is adding only 11 power, 6 precision and 1% crit to a base (on my mesmer... your mileage will vary) of 1867, 1684 and 35% respectively. Power goes from 1982 to 1993. 

 

That amulet gives close to 1% extra dps. For sake of simplicity: assume 10 different equipments all giving the same dps increase: that would give a total of almost 10% extra dps, which is noticable.

 

You're going to have to provide the math demonstrating how, in a game designed with diminishing returns on increased stats, going from 1982 to 1993 power is translating to a 1% dps increase, especially when the game doesn't have a dps focus or viable means of measuring dps simply because there's no "plant and shoot" in place nor is there an optimal rotation. 

 

Provide data or admit you're flat out lying.

Using the formula given at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage, power is directly proportional to both basic direct damage and "direct damage as listed in skill's tooltip". 

 

This means that 1993/1982  => 0.555% damage increase (Condition damage is not taken into account)

 

However, precision increases crit rate. Both increased crit rate and increased crit damage modifier increase the dps, which means that the dps is higher than the 0.555% given by the power increase.

 

Even if we completely ignore the effect of crit damage and crit rate increase,  given 10 equips that have the same change in stats between ascended and exotic, we get the equivalent of 5.55% dps increase.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

2/22/13 8:42:09 AM#171
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 


Originally posted by Volkon
Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.


 


I m sorry i should have to expressed myself clearer in that regard. No need to being a condescending prick though on your part.
Dungeons drop better loot. No that doesnt mean stuff in dungeons is plain statistically better, it means the loot there is better. Means you get more greens instead of blues. Means you get more rares and exotics. Means for anyone playing the game looking to achieve most things they ll want to play dungeons. Its also the fastest way of getting ascended gear.

Take things in context and argue the whole point instead of just taking one thing twisting it around and calling me a liar.

Dungeons are also much harder than open world.

And Anet hasn't finished increasing rewards for the open world or adding new ways to get ascended items.

 

More I remember, amongst other things that arenanet said "We will never allow 7 hero parties" in GW! and they did.

Anet also added reputation grin with Nightfall when despite saying they would never add grind systems to make you more powerful.

So no, there was not really big changes to Anet way of working.

They just add their ideas, collect player feedback, sometimes make poor decisions, other times they make correct decisions.

Some players were screming there was no proression and legendaries were such a grind they might as well not exist.

Arenanet heard to these players and add a small progression.

The mass of players that were all happy having fun screamed and protested.

Arenanet heard those players and took (and is taking additional measures).

Now somehow hearing to the players feedbsck is bad.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 8:46:50 AM#172
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Using the formula given at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage, power is directly proportional to both basic direct damage and "direct damage as listed in skill's tooltip". 

 

This means that 1993/1982  => 0.555% damage increase (Condition damage is not taken into account)

 

However, precision increases crit rate. Both increased crit rate and increased crit damage modifier increase the dps, which means that the dps is higher than the 0.555% given by the power increase.

 

Even if we completely ignore the effect of crit damage and crit rate increase,  given 10 equips that have the same change in stats between ascended and exotic, we get the equivalent of 5.55% dps increase.

 

Hold the phone. Where's the numbers, and how are you converting damage into DPS? Here's the formula for damage:

 

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

 

You can't just claim that 1993/1982 means a .555% damage increase without showing your math on this. Even after the numbers are provided, how are you converting damage into damage per second? Different skills have different cast times. There's no rotation, no "optimal" utilization of skills for a pure dps output. Movement, dodging, utilities, blocks, mitigations... these all affect things. DAMAGE here simply means for one single otherwise unmitigated (excepting armor, which is defense + toughness) attack. It's impossible to turn that into an alleged DPS value.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 8:48:48 AM#173
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 


Originally posted by Volkon
Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.


 


I m sorry i should have to expressed myself clearer in that regard. No need to being a condescending prick though on your part.
Dungeons drop better loot. No that doesnt mean stuff in dungeons is plain statistically better, it means the loot there is better. Means you get more greens instead of blues. Means you get more rares and exotics. Means for anyone playing the game looking to achieve most things they ll want to play dungeons. Its also the fastest way of getting ascended gear.

Take things in context and argue the whole point instead of just taking one thing twisting it around and calling me a liar.

Dungeons are also much harder than open world.

I did a couple CoF1 runs with guildies. Turns out that (to me) it was much easier than dealing with Veteran karka in Southsun.   

Oderint, dum metuant.

  TwoThreeFour

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2149

2/22/13 8:53:45 AM#174
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Using the formula given at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage, power is directly proportional to both basic direct damage and "direct damage as listed in skill's tooltip". 

 

This means that 1993/1982  => 0.555% damage increase (Condition damage is not taken into account)

 

However, precision increases crit rate. Both increased crit rate and increased crit damage modifier increase the dps, which means that the dps is higher than the 0.555% given by the power increase.

 

Even if we completely ignore the effect of crit damage and crit rate increase,  given 10 equips that have the same change in stats between ascended and exotic, we get the equivalent of 5.55% dps increase.

 

Hold the phone. Where's the numbers, and how are you converting damage into DPS? Here's the formula for damage:

 

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

 

You can't just claim that 1993/1982 means a .555% damage increase without showing your math on this. Even after the numbers are provided, how are you converting damage into damage per second? Different skills have different cast times. There's no rotation, no "optimal" utilization of skills for a pure dps output. Movement, dodging, utilities, blocks, mitigations... these all affect things. DAMAGE here simply means for one single otherwise unmitigated (excepting armor, which is defense + toughness) attack. It's impossible to turn that into an alleged DPS value.

 

D1 = A * 1993

D2 = A*1982

 

Relative damage increase = (D1 -D2)/ D2 = 11/1982 => 0.00555 => 0.555%

 

DPS increase without taking consideration to conditional damage ceteris paribus: 0.555%.

Edit: Things like rotations, as long as they don't  use conditional damage, only matter to get absolute values of the dps, but not for how equips increase relative dps. Since the absolute values of the dps are not necessary to calculate the relative increase, one does not have to take rotations into account.

 

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

2/22/13 8:55:15 AM#175
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 


Originally posted by Volkon
Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.


 


I m sorry i should have to expressed myself clearer in that regard. No need to being a condescending prick though on your part.
Dungeons drop better loot. No that doesnt mean stuff in dungeons is plain statistically better, it means the loot there is better. Means you get more greens instead of blues. Means you get more rares and exotics. Means for anyone playing the game looking to achieve most things they ll want to play dungeons. Its also the fastest way of getting ascended gear.

Take things in context and argue the whole point instead of just taking one thing twisting it around and calling me a liar.

Dungeons are also much harder than open world.

I did a couple CoF1 runs with guildies. Turns out that (to me) it was much easier than dealing with Veteran karka in Southsun.   

It is a general statement - there will be of course exceptions here and there or depending of the players playstyle/profession and party composition.

Additionally veterans  and champions don't give much in terms of rewards (Anet said they fixing it in the next patch) and I wished loot was more spread instead of being in some meta event chests.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  SonicTHI

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/07
Posts: 158

2/22/13 8:55:32 AM#176


Originally posted by mikahr
1. No they didnt lie to you. They never stated "EXOTIC" is the final tier. ever.

2. And thats self inflicted. Funny how the game didnt change to dungeon grind for me. Hmmm. Open world was fine, i actuallly enoyed no zergs but appropriate number of players. Dungeon loot dont outclass anything. You get more of same loot but it certanly isnt detrimental to anything. It seems youre all about loot, maybe GW franchise isnt for you.

3. You dont have to trust anything. And i heard tinfoil hats are a must.

4. let us all use our crytstal balls, someone will eventually be right


1. Implied several times directly or indirectly. Ascended gear can not be crafted, can not be traded for karma and can not be acquired in WvW. It does not have a different look. Go read the articles and quotes, address those and then come back to me.
Here s 2 links again for all the lazy people:
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/

2. You clearly have no idea about gamer mentality. And no i m definitely not all about loot. I m arguing against "better loot" in case you missed that point.

3. I dont have to trust anything but they need customer trust. You clearly have no clue about business talking like that.

4. When you have no clue about the systems and mechanics behind gaming i m sure it must all seem really magical to you.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

2/22/13 9:05:11 AM#177
Originally posted by SonicTHI


 

1. Implied several times directly or indirectly. Ascended gear can not be crafted, can not be traded for karma and can not be acquired in WvW. It does not have a different look. Go read the articles and quotes, address those and then come back to me.
Here s 2 links again for all the lazy people:
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/

Yet.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 9:07:26 AM#178
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Using the formula given at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage, power is directly proportional to both basic direct damage and "direct damage as listed in skill's tooltip". 

 

This means that 1993/1982  => 0.555% damage increase (Condition damage is not taken into account)

 

However, precision increases crit rate. Both increased crit rate and increased crit damage modifier increase the dps, which means that the dps is higher than the 0.555% given by the power increase.

 

Even if we completely ignore the effect of crit damage and crit rate increase,  given 10 equips that have the same change in stats between ascended and exotic, we get the equivalent of 5.55% dps increase.

 

Hold the phone. Where's the numbers, and how are you converting damage into DPS? Here's the formula for damage:

 

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

 

You can't just claim that 1993/1982 means a .555% damage increase without showing your math on this. Even after the numbers are provided, how are you converting damage into damage per second? Different skills have different cast times. There's no rotation, no "optimal" utilization of skills for a pure dps output. Movement, dodging, utilities, blocks, mitigations... these all affect things. DAMAGE here simply means for one single otherwise unmitigated (excepting armor, which is defense + toughness) attack. It's impossible to turn that into an alleged DPS value.

 

D1 = A * 1993

D2 = A*1982

 

Relative damage increase = (D1 -D2)/ D2 = 11/1982 => 0.00555 => 0.555%

 

DPS increase without taking consideration to conditional damage ceteris paribus: 0.555%.

Edit: Things like rotations, as long as they don't induce use conditional damage, only matter to get absolute values of the dps, but not for how equips increase relative dps. Since the absolute values of the dps are not necessary to calculate the relative increase, one does not have to take account into rotations.

 

Ceteris paribus (+5 internets to you, btw. ) doesn't apply.. again you're comparing apples to oranges. The numbers work out on paper (I just tested it), but you're still comparing single attack damage to "dps", which isn't valid in GW2 due to the combat system. 

 

By the way, showing my math for anyone wondering where .55% comes from:

 

1100*1982*.5/1000 = 1090.1    (Assuming a coefficient of .5 and an armor of 1000 to simplify the math)

1100*1993*.5/1000= 1096.15

(1096.15 - 1090.1)/ 1096.15 = .00552 or a single attack damage increase (not DPS) of .55%.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

2/22/13 9:09:31 AM#179
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 


Originally posted by mikahr
1. No they didnt lie to you. They never stated "EXOTIC" is the final tier. ever.

 

2. And thats self inflicted. Funny how the game didnt change to dungeon grind for me. Hmmm. Open world was fine, i actuallly enoyed no zergs but appropriate number of players. Dungeon loot dont outclass anything. You get more of same loot but it certanly isnt detrimental to anything. It seems youre all about loot, maybe GW franchise isnt for you.

3. You dont have to trust anything. And i heard tinfoil hats are a must.

4. let us all use our crytstal balls, someone will eventually be right


 

 

1. Implied several times directly or indirectly. Ascended gear can not be crafted, ...

You can craft ascended backpieces.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Epicent

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 671

Die clickers Die!!!

2/22/13 9:10:23 AM#180
Originally posted by itgrowls
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by SonicTHI

 

ANET did lie to us. See the quotes i posted earlier. Go read all their blog posts, articles and interviews and then go read all their stuff post nov 15th.
Not only did they lie about better stats on gear but also about why ascended was implemented in the game.

And yes the game did change into a dungeon grind for many players. For over 2 months the games open world was devoid of people and even now dungeon loot totally outclasses open world loot. How the hell is that inline with their vision of the game? How is that not a broken game? Yes they fixed it a bit but that just confirms what i said.

ANET is now like a totally different company. One that makes errors and stupid decisions left and right, one that sacrifices their own ideals. How can i trust a company like that?
Also by saying no new tier this year tells us that they either now have no vision for the game or are being controlled by someone else at a whim.

If you after 10 years of MMOs with stat progression can not see where this is going then i cant help you. Also your analogy is completely off.

Dungeon grind? Regarding ascended gear? You really expect people to believe that line of guano? You're claiming dungeon loot outclasses open world loot... that is a complete lie on your part. Exotics that drop in the open world have the exact same stats as dungeon gear which have the exact same stats as crafted gear and as karma gear (also from the open world). 

 

For reasons unknown, you are lying your arse off about the game.

Guess that explains this huh. Ascended gear does not have the same stats. That's the future of the dungeon grind system they have planned for Ascended gear. No crafting, no mystic forge, not loot drops from champions ALL with higher stats.

You act as if its so hard to get ascended gear. I dont see what the problem is. Ascended gear are better than exotics just as exotics are better than the tier below them. Whats the problem with a new tier? Its not like you cant cosmetically apply gear to other gear with better stats

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