I am happy P2P games exist, have never felt 'ripped off' for paying for a month of game time. Will continue to sub to games i wish to play if i feel they are worth the sub.

Come at me F2P market.

Originally posted by dimasok
Japanese just cant wean themselves off the god damn subscription model. I will only try i when it goes f2p when it will inevitably burn again because of the same mistake.

First, FFXIV 1.0's failures had nothing to do with having a subscription model. The reasons it did so poorly, crashed and burned and ultimately needed to be re-done has been well-documented, on a number of sites, many times.

Second, SE re-opened subscriptions for FFXIV, as they said they would, after they took the time to assess the situation, decide what they wanted to do going forward, and produced a road-map. Many people - and I mean many - insisted reinstating subscriptions for FFXIV would be the final nail in the coffin. It would fail so hard and anyone left playing it would leave so fast, SE would have no choice but to shut it down and 2.0 would never get made. They stated that, at best, the re-launch would be just a "patched up" version of 1.0, and that the PS3 release would never see the light of day.

It was stated, with emphasis, that the only thing that would save XIV was going F2P/Cash Shop. All these predictions, and more, played out on numerous website forums, including here and even the official forums.

Funny thing happened, though. SE reinstated subs and guess what happened?

Not only did the game not crash and burn.

Not only did people actually stick around, with only a relative handful actually leaving.

The population actually grew. More people came back to the game. The world was more alive, more active and populated after they reinstated the subs than it ever was during the year they had subscriptions frozen. All the cities - not just Ul'dah - were constantly populated with people, shouting for groups, looking for LS's, looking to sell stuff, looking to buy stuff,  chatting, talking, etc. The wilderness areas were all quite active with people running about doing missions/levequests, on their way to hunt down NMs, or off to some dungeon.

So, what does this mean?

Well, at the very least, it means that all the nay-sayers and arm-chair fortune-tellers were completely wrong about the fate of FFXIV with an active subscription model.

The game has seen a complete overhaul, in almost every category. It's not "just patching up 1.0".  The PS3 version is being shown, and will be released.

More importantly, it demonstrated, quite soundly, that a subscription model absolutely can and does still work, the persistence of people who claim "subs are out-dated in 2012/2013" or "archaic" notwithstanding.

In short, all the nay-sayers and arm-chair "industry experts" were wrong. Reinstating subscriptions was not a final coffin nail for FFXIV. It was actually a boon for it.

Finally, it's further worth noting that - at least in the Western market - having a MMO that is purely cash-shop driven is not a proven viable approach. In almost every case, a MMO that's gone F2P/Cash Shop has still offered a subscription-based membership. Why? Because it's still in demand, is still a viable approach, and still has more than enough people who prefer it over the more nickel-and-dime approach of microtransactions.

So, your statement about Japanese not weaning themselves off the subscription model is way off-base. There's nothing to be "weaned off of". I understand some people want to live in a world where every game to come out is 100% F2P so they can just play when they want without ever investing a single dime to do so. Fortunately, we don't live in that world.

Cash Shops/Microtransactions are finding their place along side Subscriptions, not as a replacement for them.

Sub-based MMOs don't fail because they're sub-based. They fail because they're not good enough for people to want to pay for them. In much the same way, a poorly designed F2P/Cash Shop MMO is going to struggle because it can't keep enough people interested to generate adequate on-going cash shop sales.

A company that put efforts (and lots of money) to fix a game that crashed... have my respects to at least try it before blame them again.

Think about how many games u thought: "this need to be fixed" and how many of them did it? NOONE.

So.. give them 30 minuts fo your time to try a game (if u bought old version u can try new one) and if u dont, just wait for reviews, comments, etc.

Originally posted by jbombard
If they are smart enough to release a free trial of some sort, then people who felt betrayed by the original pile of crap might give it a whirl and decide to resubscribe.  Or perhaps give all previous subscribers a voucher for 2 free months.  Still a trial is good for people who want to try before they buy, and with so many free games it is hard to justify paying for something without knowing what you are getting.

 

They're going one better. Two better, if you think about it.

Everyone who bought FFXIV 1.0 will get ARR for free. No additional purchase necessary.

Further, everyone who bought 1.0 will also get 30 days of free play time. No subscription payment required.

Finally, they will be launching a free trial for it as well, for those who didn't buy it before and want to check it out.

Regarding F2P vs Subscription, an article on pc.ign.com had this to say:

---

... A Realm Reborn’s director and producer Naoki Yoshida explained why.

“For a free to play model, it’s very important to be able to give a lot of items to players in a very speedy manner. Unless you do that, you can’t get the money back as a business model. With [Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn’s] kind of quality, we won’t be able to bring so many items. If you want to support free to play as the game business model, the game design itself should be totally different.”

Yoshida went into even more detail about why he thinks a subscription model will work for Final Fantasy XIV even though it’s failed for so many others. “There are so many great MMOs in the Western market. Most of them, they have investors behind. So those investors want their money back as soon as the game is released. If they don’t reach a certain number of subscribers and they can’t give the money back to the investors, then they switch to a free-to-play mode to get the huge money straightaway and divide the profit among the investors. Only Blizzard and Square Enix are the companies making MMOs with their own money. We don’t have to worry about giving money back to investors. As long as we never give up we can continue supporting the game.”

---

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

DDO, Neverwinter and GW2 has proved that F2P dose not need to be a low quality game. Trials dont do it for me. Here look at the first 20 levels and now buy my game lol. We MMOers know we dont know the game till we have lived in the elder game for at least a few months. Never seen a trial give a good picture of a MMO.

Sorry to interject on this conversation but DDO went F2P post-launch so can't be used for that argument as it was developed with a diofferent business model in mind. Neverwinter isn't out yet but currently looks to be a shallow action MMO, which coincidentally is exactly what GW2 is. To date I haven't seen a single quality MMO launched as F2P or B2P; the shining example that everyone always gives, Guild Wars 2, is one of the shallowest MMOs I've ever played.

To make another point, F2P and B2P games see very infrequent or very sparse updates. Everyone always raves about the frequency of updates released for GW2 since launch but they don't consider that the amount of content in each is pathetically small. The only actual content additions to GW2 since launch were the Fractals and the new island (which is empty and serves no purpose at all, no one goes there). Forgetting content they STILL haven't fixed most beta bugs, with most professions still limited by broken traits and poor balancing.

A lot of players lately seem to have started using GW2 as an example for why every MMO should follow the same business model but to me and a lot of people it is a prime example of why devs should stick with the sub model. A subscription is the only reliable way to guarantee regular high-quality content updates. With B2P they have your money already and have no reason to keep you playing.

"and there’s a ton of new animations to go along with all your characters abilities"

Um, actually they deleted many animations...

"Enemies have gotten a their share of touch-ups as well and large creatures like the Treant look and run much smoother."

WTF... how were they "touched up" and how do they "run smoother"?  The only difference is lower poly count and removal of shaders and textures.  Stop making stuff up... honestly.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by ICEBLUE

What strikes me odd is the fact that no real consideration is being given to those of us who invested in the box the last time. I have a the colectors box of all things, hehe.

When registering for Beta they dont seem to consider this, you would think they would ask former purchasers into beta before opening it up to new players interested in jus ttaking a look at it..

I guess we wait and see how it goes.

 

That would have been a smart move IMO as well. =-\

Agreed.  Though I think what they did was even smarter.  Rather than giving people who bought the original access to the beta (mind you you're still good to go for 2.0), they rewarded those who were loyal and stuck around by giving them beta access in the initial round.  To me, this is genius.  You give your fan base a reward for being your fan base while not alienating the people who initially purchased the game or those who are just trying out the beta (You can still get in, its just not certain).

Not to mention, we're still not sure about what might happen for the other beta phases.  Perhaps they will give those who bought the game access priority, just not in the first phase.  This way you get your fan base in right away, as well as some newcomers.

For example: Phase 1: All legacy members, and random selectees

Phase 2: Purchasers but non legacy, and random selectees

Being in purchaser category doesnt necessarily mean you wont get in until phase 2, as you still have the random selectees, but it still ensures that the most loyal of the fans wil be apart of it from day 1, as it should be.

Originally posted by BadSpock

I've got a stack of Gamestop gift cards just waiting to be spent on this title.

That way, if it still sucks, I won't feel like I wasted as much real money.

I am a LOT more curious though what their plans are for PS4 integration/compatibility.

With PS4 running on x86 AMD hardware, shouldn't be all too hard for them to put the PC version with the console interface on the PS4 right?

 

Not hard at all. Ps4 is sppose to be very easier to make games for than PS3. But you will have to rebuy another FFXIVARR since PS4 is not compatible with any other PSgames.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Vesavius

"This seems a bit odd as most of the market is leaning towards the F2P micro-transaction model and it didn’t really do them much good last time around.."

 

oh ffs.. give it a rest eh? First off, no it dosent seem 'strange'. Over half the market is still pure sub based in terms of players, and it is waaay more then that in terms of payers. Plus look at what all the converted 'F2P' MMOs offer... oh yeah, a sub... It's enduring appeal is clear.

 

FFXIV will do just fine on a sub. It's far better to cater to the needs of a niche of paying customers than trying to appeal to the entitled squalling masses of 'F2P' and all the baggage they bring.

 

The revenue model *was not the issue* the first time round. It neither hurt them or hindered them. It had nothing to do with why the game failed for so many. Being F2P would *not* have made the game any better. It was irrelevant, so it not having it this is not 'strange'.

 

Does every article on every sub game here have to continously include the mention of goddam F2P? It's not like you feel the need to wistfully wonder why every crappy original F2P title dosen't have a sub or consider that fact 'strange', despite the facts above.

 

Lets stop this lazy bubble thinking with regards to subs and cash shop gaming from the writters for this site and maybe we can stop writing these kind of repetitive posts (and also questioning the potential agenda at work around here).

 

Sure it should. The MMO market is changing. 15 bucks a month was worth it back in the day.../snip

I am not interested in a discussion about sub vs F2P here, I am simply saying that the sub is still still very strong and every game dosen't have to have 'F2P' to be successful. The continual pushing of the sub as something'strange' is the point, when it clearly has an enduring place in the market here.

Also if its not F2P or B2P I may not even try it, why? From what they have given in the past, I dont see if this game is worth my money. Give me a ricks free way to try it and they would win more customers and that makes for a more stable community.

I am not actually against free trials of games, but you don't need to have 'F2P' to do that. I will also say that if you don't know enough about a game by launch these days as to it's quality of a game and it's suitability to you then maybe you should read a bit on the interweb before purchase. It's not like we are drowned in info, official and not so official, before launch these days or anything...

Trials dont do it for me. Here look at the first 20 levels and now buy my game lol. We MMOers know we dont know the game till we have lived in the elder game for at least a few months. Never seen a trial give a good picture of a MMO.

 

oh boy... we got a freeloader here. You don't want to throw the company any money 'for months'? Months?

Look, maybe this game just isn't for you, and it's time to start looking at one that is?  I can't see SE missing your (non existant) revenue really tbh. They obviously just prefer paying customers at this point and I can't say I blame 'em.

 

No freeloader, been MMOing as long as anyone can. Because IMO and for many, 15 bucks a month is not a current market value

 

well, millions disagree, because  millions obviously think it is.

Look, you like playing games for 'months' for free (your words), I get that, but what I am saying is three things...

1. The sub model is desired in the modern market, it is valid, and it offers another section of players what they want. The evidence is overwhelming that it is an enduring robust revenue model that the Western market needs to survive.

2. This website needs to start portraying the sub model as a valid and modern choice, because that's exactly what it is, and stop trying to promote the feckless thinking that cash shops are somehow more 'futuristic'. One has to wonder what the drive is in this in fact... What is there to gain by relentessly reinforcing a certain perception in a commercial environment?

3. It's not all about you bro.

 

That all aside, right now SE has to ask themselves one set of questions.... who do I want playing my game? Noisy demanding freeloaders that want to play for *months* for free, who will probably leave once paying becomes required, or do I want a smaller *paying* player base that will most liely be far less transient and more invested in what we are doing?

I am proud of them for choosing the latter.

There are plenty of so called 'F2P' games out there for you. Go play 'em.

Going for the record of the longest quoted post

and need more green text - has been lacking a bit in recent replies

Pay to play=a big turn off.

No need to know more

Free to play: expensive to have access to all content, updates focused on shops and vanity instead gameplay content, pay to unlock storage, pay to unlock inventory, pay to can mount, pay to can fly, pay to unlock skillbars, pay to have housing, pay to unlock advanced classes, pay to unlock special race, pay to change your hair, style, pay to unlock wardrove/vanity gear system, ETC.

Monthly fee: 9.99€ to have access to all. Updates focused on Content and not on shop items.

Free to play is only good for these who want to test the game and are not interested in endgame content, raid, pvp, etc.

I never played the first FF14 but heard alot of gripes about it. Square-Enix took the time and reworked this game and its now A Realm Reborn. To give it negative feedback before even trying it is pathetic. as far a it being subscrition based.. well i forked over 1600 dollars to Blizzard to play WoW and so feel that if the developers of FFXIV:ARR took the time and patience to fix thier game then players should give them a chance. how many other developers have released crappy games and never bothered to go back and fix thier mistakes.

Give Square Enix another chance folks at least they put for the effort to fix thier game. thats more than i can say for WOW, GW2, STO, SW:TOR, or any other 100 games over the last 20 years. Maybe for once Square Enix will set a precedence. Knocking it because they messed up once doesnt mean they cant fix thier mistakes and from what ive seen and heard this game seems like it might actually be worth trying out.

Originally posted by Murugan

Originally posted by ICEBLUE

What strikes me odd is the fact that no real consideration is being given to those of us who invested in the box the last time. I have a the colectors box of all things, hehe.

When registering for Beta they dont seem to consider this, you would think they would ask former purchasers into beta before opening it up to new players interested in jus ttaking a look at it..

I guess we wait and see how it goes.

I have no idea how you missed this, unless this (pretty lackluster) article is the only thing you ahve read on FFXIV in the past year but....

 

Anyone who invested in the box got:

 

-Over a year of free playtime in 1.0 to see the new teams changes.

-In Closed Beta as of phase 3 (first 2 are Gridania only)

-Free copy of ARR

-30 Days free after the official launch (on top of however long beta 3 and 4 last)

 

So yes they did give real consideration to those of us who invested in the box last time.

 

Also peopel who subscribed to FFXIV v1 for 90 days or more got into version one of the beta, their names in the credits (if they wanted), and a lifetime discount on the subscription.

 

Sorry what A "free copy of ARR" ? Er no.. I think you will find we all Purchased FFXIV. And for a lot more then it will cost for RR for people who did not.

Our copy of FFXIV : RR is in "NO WAY" free. There is NO WAY they could ever have gotten away with charging people who had ALREADY bought the game again for the non beta version of their game.

FFXIV was a rushed out beta and was a mess, FFXIV : RR is us getting exactly what we paid for, as is the 30 days subscription.

The people who bought FFXIV on launch get "NOTHING" extra, they get their game and the 30 days they paid for when they bought it, and that is it. Stop acting like we are getting something for free.

The only people who get "anything" are the people who paid for 3 months of an unfinished game after the initial year of paid for beta.

Doublepost.

Originally posted by Vorthanion
I need into the beta or a free trial before I will consider this game again.

This little tid bit seems to have been lost in the Sea of Information about ARR but I just thought you and everyone else on MMORPG.com should know:

Beta Phase 4 is an Open Beta of the Full Client with No NDA. Everyone and Anyone who wants to try out this game before they commit will have the Chance to Play for Free.

http://gdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/download/en/FFXIV_2.0_BETA_Roadmap_EN.pdf

Originally posted by TribeofOne
i cant wait. This is what FF14 should've been from the start and I'm looking forward to jumping in!

Count me in. :-)

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

FFXIV will do just fine on a sub. It's far better to cater to the needs of a niche of paying customers than trying to appeal to the entitled squalling masses of 'F2P' and all the baggage they bring.

 

The revenue model *was not the issue* the first time round. It neither hurt them or hindered them. It had nothing to do with why the game failed for so many. Being F2P would *not* have made the game any better. It was irrelevant, so it not having it this time is not 'strange'.