Originally posted by calranthe

I really do not understand people saying it takes a long time to kill enemies in this game, yes compared to diablo 3 or games like that this game does not have "trash" mobs you should be able to one hit.

This game is made for optimizing your build and skill set, fighting intelligently, adaptation to creatures and enemies, I have played since launch but even now there are nuances to the combat system I am still learning.

I have 2 solo builds depending on who and what I am fighting and a couple of skills I switch out for different affects I can take 2-3 normal mobs easily and singe mobs go down quite fast, may other builds are for playing with friends.

I am not a hardcore player I don't even do raids or dungeons pretty casual as it is but I now understand the combat system and anything that does kick my ass I see it as another type of puzzle to solve, open up my wheel and think how can I adapt to this situation.

^ Yes.  It really does come down to playstyle I think.  TSW demands you pay attention, and the game asks you to use your head, both for the in-game investigations and to understand how to best optimize yourself for combat.  Players are not simply given a single set of skills that always work; instead, you are given a set of abilities that CAN work well, IF you understand how they work together.  The player needs to take the time to understand how to create an optimized deck -- once you've done that, the monsters go down quickly.  I'm much more satisfied when I finally figure out the build to take down a that's been kicking my ass for the past week.  The combat system is there, but it's on the player's shoulders to make their character better.  

I think a lot of players have a hard time with this.  They simply are not used to being given the freedom to create a sucky (or good) combat build.

Originally posted by Ortwig

Originally posted by calranthe

I really do not understand people saying it takes a long time to kill enemies in this game, yes compared to diablo 3 or games like that this game does not have "trash" mobs you should be able to one hit.

This game is made for optimizing your build and skill set, fighting intelligently, adaptation to creatures and enemies, I have played since launch but even now there are nuances to the combat system I am still learning.

I have 2 solo builds depending on who and what I am fighting and a couple of skills I switch out for different affects I can take 2-3 normal mobs easily and singe mobs go down quite fast, may other builds are for playing with friends.

I am not a hardcore player I don't even do raids or dungeons pretty casual as it is but I now understand the combat system and anything that does kick my ass I see it as another type of puzzle to solve, open up my wheel and think how can I adapt to this situation.

^ Yes.  It really does come down to playstyle I think.  TSW demands you pay attention, and the game asks you to use your head, both for the in-game investigations and to understand how to best optimize yourself for combat.  Players are not simply given a single set of skills that always work; instead, you are given a set of abilities that CAN work well, IF you understand how they work together.  The player needs to take the time to understand how to create an optimized deck -- once you've done that, the monsters go down quickly.  I'm much more satisfied when I finally figure out the build to take down a that's been kicking my ass for the past week.  The combat system is there, but it's on the player's shoulders to make their character better.  

I think a lot of players have a hard time with this.  They simply are not used to being given the freedom to create a sucky (or good) combat build.

I wouldn't go that far. Rift has a similar, if not wider, range of build options and carries this out far clearer than TSW.

However, the whole idea of giving players the freedom is a minomer. You know what happens, players look up build guides in the game's forums or associated sites and run with these. People do the number crunching with build options and pretty soon there is the updated cookie cutter build for all the classes.

Sure players can have a go themselves, there will always be those people, from wow to rift, swtor, tera, or  whatever. But the players who want the best for their class/role will generally  ignore the whole being given the freedom bit (which isn't new or special) and refer to the various game guides.

Ok well it seems this site dosent work well on an iPad. so my post never was.

I share the same feelings Mike Moss has.

I just finished Polaris last night for the first time and i was impressed, i didnt feel the heavy handed trinity Roles other mmos have-and the combat and reward system where pretty badass!- iam not sure how higher nightmares (dungeons) are but if they are like this i will continue to do them!

I finished my second personal story mission which led me to Brooklyn NY and i a former New yorker was impressed with the details the city had. Ive actually been in that area!!-lol..so they have really paid attention to detail!!

I just purchased their 'fifth issue' becouse i see myself getting emersed in this game for a while- nothing has dissapointed me yet.

I do recomend for the peoplewho want to give it another go and  having issues in combat -to follow their starter decks- its great how much freedom you have to create a character but if your feeling frustrated and having issues with mobs- the decks will iron that out.  i had similar issues till i opened up 2 starter decks- now iam breezing through missions. it all falls into place in a way...later i plan to expand and experiment with my character.

I also welcome the complexity this games brings from navigation to missions to character tree. Havent seen this since eveonline days!

I still have a hard time with combat, but not because I can't figure out the skill wheel.  I just am not good at dodging the attacks (watching out for lines).  There was one solo instance in the haunted carnival that repeatedly handed my head to me on a platter.  After trying various builds that I had access to, I finally went online and looked for some recommended strategies, and it came down to "you gotta dance and weave", in other words, avoid all those attacks.  Suffice it to say I never completed that quest and haven't plucked up the courage to try it again, even with better gear.

I'd probably fare better with those button mashers where you just stand in one place and click buttons.  So I don't get it when people say that combat is bad, because in my opinion, it is much more advanced than many games I've played.  Too advanced at times (for me, lol).

I will be continuing to play, as there are plenty of quests that are not as physically challenging as that one I mentioned above, where my clumsy "dancing and weaving" is sufficient.  Love the game, glad to hear above that some people are still discovering it and liking it.

The combat in TSW is a very "Thinking" style combat.  You must align every skill with each other....that's why they call it "synergy" cuz that's what it does.  

The difference between a poorly put together build and a well built build is night and day.  And no, Rift does not offer the same depth.  It just offers several builds that will mirror each other from player to player.  

It's really funny that combat always comes up as a deterent...I'd consider it a one of it's strength's.  Im so sick of the "new" action type combat...if I wanted action combat Id play an action console game or mortal combat....Im playing an RPG damnit...I want to think about my build before I go fight...not rely on twitch movement to make the difference.

As for having to move out of the way with dodge...it's really not that difficult and your build plays a much bigger part than this mechanic in most cases.

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

Exactly - me too.

I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

Exactly - me too.

I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

Exactly - me too.

I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

It looks like WoW mob pulling.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

Exactly - me too.

I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

It looks like WoW mob pulling.

Exactly what I just said minus the WoW stuff...

Visceral - characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect

MMORPG's were known more for it's intellectial story-telling, skill building and the like...now it's become an action pvp lobby with raging pwnfacers....call me old fashion, but I like the intellectual part of RPG's much more than the action...I play Grand Theft Auto if I want that.

Originally posted by Randayn

The combat in TSW is a very "Thinking" style combat.  You must align every skill with each other....that's why they call it "synergy" cuz that's what it does.  

 

The difference between a poorly put together build and a well built build is night and day.  And no, Rift does not offer the same depth.  It just offers several builds that will mirror each other from player to player.  

It's really funny that combat always comes up as a deterent...I'd consider it a one of it's strength's.  Im so sick of the "new" action type combat...if I wanted action combat Id play an action console game or mortal combat....Im playing an RPG damnit...I want to think about my build before I go fight...not rely on twitch movement to make the difference.

As for having to move out of the way with dodge...it's really not that difficult and your build plays a much bigger part than this mechanic in most cases.

I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

P.S.

Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

Exactly - me too.

I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

It looks like WoW mob pulling.

Exactly what I just said minus the WoW stuff...

Visceral - characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect

MMORPG's were known more for it's intellectial story-telling, skill building and the like...now it's become an action pvp lobby with raging pwnfacers....call me old fashion, but I like the intellectual part of RPG's much more than the action...I play Grand Theft Auto if I want that.

I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

 

Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

 

P.S.

Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

Im sorry if you got the wrong impression there...Im not calling you anything.  I just think that this game is for people that enjoy there MMO's to be more thought intensive rather than instinct intensive.

As for mobs taking too long to die, that sounds like making the incorrect gear choices to me.  If you are out solo-leveling you should be equipping all DPS gear...no tank or healing...after that you'll notice a vast difference in how fast a mob dies (as long as your build is solid)

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by Randayn

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

Exactly - me too.

I saw YouTube footage of TSW gameplay and it looked boring frankly  - turned me right off.

However, the comments on this thread seem to be describing a completely different game.

Id say if you are a part of the group of new MMO gamer's that are more into action combat it could be boring, but again, I'd say that you need to realize you are playing an MMORPG

If you like story, I think TWS delivers (from what I've seen from YouTube videos).

If you like being a bit scared (i.e. have a bit of realism / gore), I don't think this game's for you.

The combat doesn't look visceral - I think it should. 

It looks like WoW mob pulling.

Exactly what I just said minus the WoW stuff...

Visceral - characterized by or proceeding from instinct rather than intellect

MMORPG's were known more for it's intellectial story-telling, skill building and the like...now it's become an action pvp lobby with raging pwnfacers....call me old fashion, but I like the intellectual part of RPG's much more than the action...I play Grand Theft Auto if I want that.

I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

Anarchy Online?  Eve Online?  Im not talking about mainstream products, they are mainstream popular because they are mainstream dumbed down.

again, I bolded RPG, and with RPG's they have always been more intellectually engaging than other video games cept for straight up puzzle games

Originally posted by Randayn

I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

 

Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

 

P.S.

Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

Im sorry if you got the wrong impression there...Im not calling you anything.  I just think that this game is for people that enjoy there MMO's to be more thought intensive rather than instinct intensive.

As for mobs taking too long to die, that sounds like making the incorrect gear choices to me.  If you are out solo-leveling you should be equipping all DPS gear...no tank or healing...after that you'll notice a vast difference in how fast a mob dies (as long as your build is solid)

Once again, my build was fine and I had DPS gear.  It still takes 20 seconds or so to kill anything in my area (second zone), which wouldn't be so bad if it was a FUN 20 econds, but it really just ends up being (combo builder x5 + finisher for each weapon)2.  Maybe throw in a cooldown every other fight for some extra crits which shave a second or two off.  For groups, it's much the same, just with AOE-focused skills.

There's nothing compelling about that.  It's literally 3 or 4 buttons to press, per fight, with one button being used 90% of the time.

Originally posted by Randayn

I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

Anarchy Online?  Eve Online?  Im not talking about mainstream products, they are mainstream popular because they are mainstream dumbed down.

again, I bolded RPG, and with RPG's they have always been more intellectually engaging than other video games cept for straight up puzzle games

Neither of those games has much of a story.  Eve has the epic story arcs, I suppose, but they were pretty uninteresting and ammounted to little more than a basic questline with a few player choices, from my experience.

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by Randayn

I keep coming accross this same basic argument, which is a shame.  Everyone assumes I simply don't have a good build, or am somehow not smart enough for the game.

The fact is, combat is rediculously slow.  If you have a crappy build, it's not a matter of it being slow, but one of you dying too much.  I never ran into many issues where I died though (aside from the retarded mayan zombie event where the strong zombies would perma respawn in the middle of fights).  

My builds have synergy, yet combat still feels slow.  I'm not expecting to go one or two shot everything in under 5 seconds, but it's annoying when nearly every mob I fight takes 20 to 30 seconds to drop.  I never feel like I'm in real danger or anything, just that I'm having to use the same few tactics over and over until it's dead (build weapon points up, use both finishers, rinse and repeat).  Maybe throw in a dodge every 10 seconds if I see a big ass white graphic on the ground.  Yay.

 

Like I've said before, I'm glad that some people enjoy the game.  Just stop assuming that if someone else complains about combat being boring, that it must mean they are an idiot who simply doesn't "get it."

 

P.S.

Having to go into a menu to switch out to a specialized build in order to access skills that will be more effective against whatever mob you are about to face, then switch them out again for the next mob, is not fun.  Just give me all the skills and let me adjust my usage  on the fly in combat, even if it's like GW2 weapon swapping.

Im sorry if you got the wrong impression there...Im not calling you anything.  I just think that this game is for people that enjoy there MMO's to be more thought intensive rather than instinct intensive.

As for mobs taking too long to die, that sounds like making the incorrect gear choices to me.  If you are out solo-leveling you should be equipping all DPS gear...no tank or healing...after that you'll notice a vast difference in how fast a mob dies (as long as your build is solid)

Once again, my build was fine and I had DPS gear.  It still takes 20 seconds or so to kill anything in my area (second zone), which wouldn't be so bad if it was a FUN 20 econds, but it really just ends up being (combo builder x5 + finisher for each weapon)2.  Maybe throw in a cooldown every other fight for some extra crits which shave a second or two off.  For groups, it's much the same, just with AOE-focused skills.

There's nothing compelling about that.  It's literally 3 or 4 buttons to press, per fight, with one button being used 90% of the time.

Don't know...if you had all DPS gear it would have had to have been your build.  You can say it isnt all you want, but Imma tank build and once I got my build right and my gear right, no mob lasted that long in a fight with me...maybe 2 or 3...not 1.  

I used all 7 skills pretty much round the clock...had 1 that was a knockdown for when mobs would do their "big" move, but the other 6 were very useful.  

I still like the combat alot and have been playing since beta, but there is still a WHOLE lot more to the game than combat, not to detract from your argument, but mine encompasses the entire game.  the entire game appeals to those who want to play something that teases their intellect a bit.  If that's now how you have fun, then it's all good....I just think it's a real shame that MMORPG's forgot all about the "RPG" element.

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by Randayn

I'm sorry, but MMORPG's have never really been known for their intellectual story-telling.  Especially not the earlier ones.  That would be nice, and the story and setting of TSW is definitely it's strongest aspect, but it's also contrary to the rest of the industry, past and present.

Regardelss, I don't think there is any good reason why you have to have one or the other.  They could have made combat more exciting, or at least not quite as repetative.  They also could have spent more time making sure basic things like chat channels work properly, or paying someone besides the 16 year old intern to hack together some character animations one afternoon.  They didn't, however, and the are suffering for it.

Anarchy Online?  Eve Online?  Im not talking about mainstream products, they are mainstream popular because they are mainstream dumbed down.

again, I bolded RPG, and with RPG's they have always been more intellectually engaging than other video games cept for straight up puzzle games

Neither of those games has much of a story.  Eve has the epic story arcs, I suppose, but they were pretty uninteresting and ammounted to little more than a basic questline with a few player choices, from my experience.

Anarchy Online didnt have a story?  What are you nuts?  The story was EVERYWHERE and ANYWHERE.  the dungeons had a story all of their own...

Just because Morgan Freeman isn't providing commentary doesn't mean there isn't a story...you had to dig.

Originally posted by asmkm22
I can't even bring myself to play TSW now that it's free, due to the combat being boring.  Love the settings, but they really dropped the ball on the gameplay.

 Yeah I quit in beta even though it was free....jsut was a boring single player feel game...The 3 factions felt identical and the combat and mob animations were just awful.....i know Im in the minority but I thought Funcom's oldest game (AO in 2001) was still their best......I wouldn't play TSW or AoC for free even.

Originally posted by Randayn

The combat in TSW is a very "Thinking" style combat.  You must align every skill with each other....that's why they call it "synergy" cuz that's what it does.  

The difference between a poorly put together build and a well built build is night and day.  And no, Rift does not offer the same depth.  It just offers several builds that will mirror each other from player to player.  

It's really funny that combat always comes up as a deterent...I'd consider it a one of it's strength's.  Im so sick of the "new" action type combat...if I wanted action combat Id play an action console game or mortal combat....Im playing an RPG damnit...I want to think about my build before I go fight...not rely on twitch movement to make the difference.

As for having to move out of the way with dodge...it's really not that difficult and your build plays a much bigger part than this mechanic in most cases.

I love the combat in the game.  It feels action-oriented to me and has a great pace to it, again for me.  I also like Tera and GW2 combat and TSW doesn't feel much different in how satisfying I find it.

I like the active-passive synergies and the active dodging and positioning.  I'm mid level and using survival builds since I pretty much solo.

All that is secondary to the community though, which I find to be most enjoyable.  It's the immersion and community that make this game truly great to me.