Originally posted by skyexile

oh yea were the spells in daoc qued on the server then or just the client? if its only the client, that does nothing much to help fix latency issues.

It hast to be server side because they weren't affected by lag at all. I was playing with a ~300 ping (56k modem) the first few years and the queued spell always started casting immediately and not after 300 ms.

Originally posted by Raagnarz

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Folks,

   Just poking my head in while I take a break from the Lost Levels (1 more to go). Sorry about no blog post today but here's a few things to talk/argue about in regards to this thread (and then I'm vanishing again).

1) No GCD for CU. It makes sense in some games but I don't want to have one in CU.

2) There *might* be a very limited set of instant cast spells but please keep the words "limited" and "might" in mind as you continue your discussions. I could see some spells that could be useful in non-combat situations being insta-cast but I believe we really need to limit the insta-cast spells/abilities quite heavily in the combat portion of our RvR game. No matter what, there will not be a lot of insta-cast skills in combat, that part has already been decided on. I just want to reserve the possilibility of some insta-casts for very unique combat situations and/or out of combat spell casting.

3) I also believe that we don't want a lot of players running around as fast as they can while casting spells, using abilities, etc. if we want to have a successful combat system so expect that casting & moving is not going to be a core component of the system.

Okay, back to work, Boss level here I come.

Mark

I agree with all of that. I personally prefer no global cooldown but have cast times on spells. I'm not a fan of instant cast unless, like in daoc, as soon as a melee hits a caster he can no longer cast. I'm not a fan of that system either. Let a caster cast, but not move while doing so, and there is no reason to have insta casts. Melee weapon styles I wouldn't consider insta spells. They have animations associated with them as well which can work as a buffer to not make them instant. But melee styles should be quicker to fire off as melee's gotta cover ground to get to a caster.

 

But all in all this is music to my ears. It means no more run at full skald speed and drive by aoe mez/root the first thing you see and win.

That was the only thing i hated about playing a caster. I did not mind that I could/would die in 1-3 hits but when I was in melee range I was SOL if insta-cast was down. If it was up you were always tring to root or mezzzzzz. Same went with the bow for a scout. I hope that will not carry over to CU. I am fine with the must stand in one place for both play styles. Please just make it were i can still use abilities or have a higher rate of fizzle when using said ability if in melee range.

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

I'd rather have combat closer too vanilla WoW then DAoC snail paced combat personally.

 Snail paced? good god have you even played the end game in daoc lately? It's anything but slow.

ANd GDC is not for latency, it's so pleople won't dump 10 abilities /spells all at once. It's a way to create a flow to combat in a game.

Originally posted by CyborWolfTK

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

I'd rather have combat closer too vanilla WoW then DAoC snail paced combat personally.

 Snail paced? good god have you even played the end game in daoc lately? It's anything but slow.

I know right. Casters can kill eachother faster then people die in Call of Duty  lol.  Some people just have no idea :/

Originally posted by CyborWolfTK

 Snail paced? good god have you even played the end game in daoc lately? It's anything but slow.

Yes its a slow pace game, getting nuked by multiple players doesnt change that.

I'm not a fan of the combat system in WOW, but I came from DAOC so naturally I preferred that sort of setup.

I was a bit bothered by the setup in WAR because of that, but I got over it.

I still think the DAOC method flows more naturally and hope a good hard look is being taken at it. You don't need a GCD to "create flow"

Originally posted by Outis

That was the only thing i hated about playing a caster. I did not mind that I could/would die in 1-3 hits but when I was in melee range I was SOL if insta-cast was down. If it was up you were always tring to root or mezzzzzz. Same went with the bow for a scout. I hope that will not carry over to CU. I am fine with the must stand in one place for both play styles. Please just make it were i can still use abilities or have a higher rate of fizzle when using said ability if in melee range.

The problem with that is you would have to make casting a low weaker, possibly to a point where it is not that much fun anymore because you don't feel like doing much. Or casting would be o strong that there would be no point of playing aything else.

I'm not for a full interrupt system. Being interruptet even when attacked by a lvl1 pet  or even be interrupted when your opponent is not hitting is just stupid. But a major setback would be nice.

Originally posted by Jithak

Originally posted by Outis

That was the only thing i hated about playing a caster. I did not mind that I could/would die in 1-3 hits but when I was in melee range I was SOL if insta-cast was down. If it was up you were always tring to root or mezzzzzz. Same went with the bow for a scout. I hope that will not carry over to CU. I am fine with the must stand in one place for both play styles. Please just make it were i can still use abilities or have a higher rate of fizzle when using said ability if in melee range.

The problem with that is you would have to make casting a low weaker, possibly to a point where it is not that much fun anymore because you don't feel like doing much. Or casting would be o strong that there would be no point of playing aything else.

I'm not for a full interrupt system. Being interruptet even when attacked by a lvl1 pet  or even be interrupted when your opponent is not hitting is just stupid. But a major setback would be nice.

I think its like always, the balance that is important. For the melee, it would be frustrating, if he can not interrupt the caster and the caster needs a chance to get rid of a melee. The hard thing is to find the right numbers and chances for this (depends on damage output and resistances etc...).

Imho, this is a good issue for skills in the character development. The caster trains "concentration", that represents the chance, not to get interrupted by damage. The melee has special interrupt skills like shield bash and a a "disturb" skill, that opposes "concentration". I also liked the daoc quickcast skill, as "panic button". Oh yes and please keep the endurance consuming sprint skill!

Back on topic. CD is needed, but a GCD is only a simplyfied CD. A more distinguished CD (cast time, swing time, etc), will add more strategic depth imo. For example, you could swing at the enemy and shout at the same time.

Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Folks,

   Just poking my head in while I take a break from the Lost Levels (1 more to go). Sorry about no blog post today but here's a few things to talk/argue about in regards to this thread (and then I'm vanishing again).

1) No GCD for CU. It makes sense in some games but I don't want to have one in CU.

2) There *might* be a very limited set of instant cast spells but please keep the words "limited" and "might" in mind as you continue your discussions. I could see some spells that could be useful in non-combat situations being insta-cast but I believe we really need to limit the insta-cast spells/abilities quite heavily in the combat portion of our RvR game. No matter what, there will not be a lot of insta-cast skills in combat, that part has already been decided on. I just want to reserve the possilibility of some insta-casts for very unique combat situations and/or out of combat spell casting.

3) I also believe that we don't want a lot of players running around as fast as they can while casting spells, using abilities, etc. if we want to have a successful combat system so expect that casting & moving is not going to be a core component of the system.

Okay, back to work, Boss level here I come.

Mark

Excellent

Thanks, Mark! Finally someone in the industry who actually understands the issues

Originally posted by CyborWolfTK

Originally posted by Teh_Axi

I'd rather have combat closer too vanilla WoW then DAoC snail paced combat personally.

 Snail paced? good god have you even played the end game in daoc lately? It's anything but slow.

 

Thank you, CyborWolf. I'm so glad that somebody said this... Dude, if you want vanilla WoW then stay there. Your absence in CU won't bother me any, but please don't bash on the best RvR system created. Snail paced, HA!

Originally posted by Kryptonite_Hilo

Thank you, CyborWolf. I'm so glad that somebody said this... Dude, if you want vanilla WoW then stay there. Your absence in CU won't bother me any, but please don't bash on the best RvR system created. Snail paced, HA!

Yeah I'll just stay in a game that doesnt exsist, not that its even relevant as I was talking about the pacing of gameplay. I never said I want the game to be vanilla WoW or even mentioned RvR. Fact is DAoC biggest weakness has always been its combat, even if you fanboys refuse to accept it.