Originally posted by Bosian
Just give me back pre-cu SWG and I would be happy :)

 You can play SWG pre cu now if you want to. ;-)

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals. Judging by all the whining in general, this doesn't always turn out for the best for the gamers.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

Let me think about this...

Completely player run MMOs.

-Face of Mankind

-Neocron2

-SWG Pre-CU

-Wurm Online

-Xsyon

-Mortal Online

-Darkfall

Those are just a few that I can think of that I have played or currently play.   They are all completely player run with little or no Development control over the playerbase.    I know Mortal Online just turned into a ganker and griefer haven so that pretty much sucked.    Wurm and Xsyon have such small playerbases that it is realively easy to let the players run the gameworld.   And FOM and DFO just were based around combat and thats pretty much it.   Neocron2 is great but is very dated at this point and has a small population. 

Originally posted by Hodo

Let me think about this...

 

Completely player run MMOs.

 

-Face of Mankind

-Neocron2

-SWG Pre-CU

-Wurm Online

-Xsyon

-Mortal Online

-Darkfall

 

Those are just a few that I can think of that I have played or currently play.   They are all completely player run with little or no Development control over the playerbase.    I know Mortal Online just turned into a ganker and griefer haven so that pretty much sucked.    Wurm and Xsyon have such small playerbases that it is realively easy to let the players run the gameworld.   And FOM and DFO just were based around combat and thats pretty much it.   Neocron2 is great but is very dated at this point and has a small population. 

 

 

None of em are completely player run because you still have standing structures at the begining (NPC stuff). If you want a total sandbox your only hope is http://strt.cc/?ref=c2lsdmVyMV9Xb2xmMkB5YWhvby5jb20_ if it ever gets off the ground.

Originally posted by Neverdyne

The world would be completely player-driven. Think of a world where "nature" elements are there, but anything "man-made" is done by players. Players can kill whoever they want, they can loot whatever they want from others, etc. Character progression would be in the form of skill trees similar to SWG; you choose to be whatever you want. There would be no pre-made cities, or factions, etc. Instead players can build whatever they want similar to Minecraft or Rift Dimensions (but nothing would be instanced). Buildings can be destroyed by player attacks. Crafters would need to compete to get the best resources (again, similar to SWG). Would you play such a game?  A box full of sand and a few shovels, but nothing else? I've always been curious about how such a game would be received.

Very, but really very, unlikely. There are so few great games with great quests composed by best minds in gaming industry. I doubt among players, even if numbers are big, are so many geniouses. :-))

Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals. Judging by all the whining in general, this doesn't always turn out for the best for the gamers.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

 

Probably still turn out 1000x better than MMOs built by amateurs.

Originally posted by ragz45

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

A lot of people don't give EVE more than a few hours before quitting.  It's because EVE doesn't have a learning curve.  It has a learning cliff and there are people standing at the top of it waiting to kick you back to the bottom just when you think you've learned something.

Actually I quit even within an hour.  Not because the game was too hard or anything else.  But the combat was borring as hell to me.  I wanted to be able to control my ship like a flgiht sim.  Not just tell it to orbit targets and fire.  I understand there is a lot of tactic's to EVE and it's not as simple as that.  But I wanted the ability to play like a flight sim, doing barrel rolls etc.

That's a huge reason I'm really excited for Star Citizen.

 

u have to think that the ships in eve arent like a F-15 or a fighter jet...they are big vessels...in the realm of science fiction most big ships just sit there and fire stuff

Originally posted by shingoukieh

Originally posted by ragz45

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

A lot of people don't give EVE more than a few hours before quitting.  It's because EVE doesn't have a learning curve.  It has a learning cliff and there are people standing at the top of it waiting to kick you back to the bottom just when you think you've learned something.

Actually I quit even within an hour.  Not because the game was too hard or anything else.  But the combat was borring as hell to me.  I wanted to be able to control my ship like a flgiht sim.  Not just tell it to orbit targets and fire.  I understand there is a lot of tactic's to EVE and it's not as simple as that.  But I wanted the ability to play like a flight sim, doing barrel rolls etc.

That's a huge reason I'm really excited for Star Citizen.

 

u have to think that the ships in eve arent like a F-15 or a fighter jet...they are big vessels...in the realm of science fiction most big ships just sit there and fire stuff

STO does capital ship combat way better. You have to care about facing, and turn rate. You have skills to do temporary buff or heal. It does not have to be sit there and fire stuff.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by shingoukieh

u have to think that the ships in eve arent like a F-15 or a fighter jet...they are big vessels...in the realm of science fiction most big ships just sit there and fire stuff

STO does capital ship combat way better. You have to care about facing, and turn rate. You have skills to do temporary buff or heal. It does not have to be sit there and fire stuff.

STO doesn't do combat "way better", it just does it differently and in a more arcadey manner. STO's combat is the only remarkable thing that the game pulls off, but it wouldn't be appropriate for a game such as EVE (which has been described as more "Captain Picard" style versus "Han solo" style.

There was some talk from the devs years ago about the possibilty of having more "control" over some of the smaller ship classes such as Interceptors, but by and large, the ships in EVE are just so gargantuan that arcade style combat doesn't make sense.

In an RPG there really needs to be some construct as far as combat goes...  Like healthbar and skills.  MAYBE they can allow players to create their own skills and conditions, but there needs to be good rules set up to control this and keep it from getting retarded (aka, a player-run approval board ala potbs 3d shipwright models).

Then you need some sort of karma system, flagging system, or some way to differentiate griefers from regular players.  I don't mind if anyone can attack anyone, but when players take advantage of their higher level/gear/skill to execute players who have no interest in PvPing then that needs to be handled somehow via gameplay.

If we had those two things then I would be pretty happy with any other sandbox features you can throw at me!!  If all quests were player made, im all for it!  Hell even if all the NPCs are player made that is fine with me too as long as there is strict quality assurance guidelines to prevent players from creating shitty content (again, a player-run approval board, etc).

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by shingoukieh

u have to think that the ships in eve arent like a F-15 or a fighter jet...they are big vessels...in the realm of science fiction most big ships just sit there and fire stuff

STO does capital ship combat way better. You have to care about facing, and turn rate. You have skills to do temporary buff or heal. It does not have to be sit there and fire stuff.

STO doesn't do combat "way better", it just does it differently and in a more arcadey manner. STO's combat is the only remarkable thing that the game pulls off, but it wouldn't be appropriate for a game such as EVE (which has been described as more "Captain Picard" style versus "Han solo" style.

There was some talk from the devs years ago about the possibilty of having more "control" over some of the smaller ship classes such as Interceptors, but by and large, the ships in EVE are just so gargantuan that arcade style combat doesn't make sense.

It is not about speed (ships in STO does not go that fast), it is about depth and what you can do with it.

In Eve (at least for "early" game pve missions), there is very little. You put in max range automatically, and click firing missles .. that is it. There is no use of skills like attack patterns, no considerations like energies for shields, no facing mechanics (in fact, turning in STO can be quite slow, pretty much similar to a capital ship in the tv show).

Eve combat is not fun to me because it has little depth, little skills and mechanics, not because it is slow.

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Originally posted by shingoukieh

Another note a game like that couldnt exist unless it was like server based where people host servers and with a cap of like 200 or so....

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Originally posted by Nitth

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Originally posted by shingoukieh

Another note a game like that couldnt exist unless it was like server based where people host servers and with a cap of like 200 or so....

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How So?

He is probably imagining it like minecraft or something.  The mistake there would be that minecrafts limit is driven by the ability for everyone to edit terrian, limited resources, limited space, and poor multiplayer code arcitecture.  As long as a MMO does not have these problems then it could home many more than 200...  For example: SWG.

I don't think any of the sandbox players on mmorpg.com want a sandbox on the level of minecraft.  At face value, we want something with more RPG.  We don't need to tear apart the ground or build our cities tiny brick by brick.  As far as world building goes, some imagine something like the Sims where you can model your own house wall by wall, but most of us would be satisified choosing from preselected groups of houses and simply getting to choose the location of the house in the world.

Some of us also want something even deeper creatively than minecraft; there are some sandbox players who want to contribute their 3D modelling and 2D art.  They would not be satisfied by the constrictions of minecraft's building blocks.  For these people, a more elaborate vetting system would need to be in place (probably via the game's forums).  But still, this would not have to be capped at 200 players.

If it was developed by really GOOD company with big budged and great ideas and developers team.

Than maybe :)

P.S.: AND MUST BE P2P OR B2P.

Originally posted by Thorbrand
Called Xsyon but no one wanted to play it.

I have not play any of the other 'player-driven' games that were mentioned. Well, except for Eve, but I don't believe that was truly player driven. I have played Xsyon which is 100% player drive.  You start out with pretty much nothing save for basic knowledge of gathering and such.  As people play, technology advances and the world gets bigger untill eventually the entire world opens up and technology is comparable to today. Everything you have is actually earned, built by you.