Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

 

Sorry for the late reply (im at work)

Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.

Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.

Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.

 

The question is why should one waste their time when there is a chance ... even a small one ... that there will be griefing.

Using your analogy, why should i choose a school with a chance of some bullies, when there are plenty of schools when bullying is not possible because the rule of physics is changed so that none of them can touch you in the main hall?

  Any thing I build or make..can be looted destroyed by douchebags...hmm  sounds fun  {/sarcasm off}

  I believe I shall pass.

This kind of reminds me of Shadowbane and would probably run into the same problem that Shadowbane had or did when I played at release for around year or so.

The griefing wasn't as bad as people said it would be or made it out to be.  Guilds formed for protection and territory.  Then came alliances for the same reason...  Then it ultimately came down to, on ever single server I played, the MEGA GUILD FOR WORLD DOMINATION vs. THE OTHER MEGA GUILD FOR WORLD DOMINATION or/ vs. The Coalition of the Very, Very Numerous, but Significantly Smaller Guilds Who Don't Want to Surrender.

Whoever won griefed and chased the loser off the server.

Then the cycle started again when drama caused the winner(s) to fracture... only this time with half the server population having left.

Originally posted by apocoluster

  Any thing I build or make..can be looted destroyed by douchebags...hmm  sounds fun  {/sarcasm off}

 

  I believe I shall pass.

Pretty much this, a game where anything another player can build or make can be looted and destroyed in less time than it took to build or make really only appeals to those that want to rape, pillage and burn all day and not to those who like to build and make.

The consequence of this is that the bandits drive the citizens out of the game and are left ganking each other until they get bored and leave in search of a game where they can gank "noobs and carebears".

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

 

Sorry for the late reply (im at work)

Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.

Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.

Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.

 

The question is why should one waste their time when there is a chance ... even a small one ... that there will be griefing.

Using your analogy, why should i choose a school with a chance of some bullies, when there are plenty of schools when bullying is not possible because the rule of physics is changed so that none of them can touch you in the main hall?

All schools have bullies verbal, cyber and physical ... when there is a will theres a way.

This is a "school" where you can learn & train to be anything... why would you let bullies get in the way of your future?

Conversations with my mother and dinner with my GF often work this way.

So far I hate squash, every single time I've had it, no matter what kind or how it's prepared, it tastes awfull.  There is always the chance that someone will make a squash that tastes good. However I'm looking at very skeptical.

My mother often wants me to review some new exercise plan or supplement she's taking or some new age treatment she is doing.  The majority of the time it is all hype and garbage, it's gotten to the point now where every time she wants me to I say no.  She says why:

The answer, there is only so much time during the day to do things including researching new products.  I'm not going to waste my time looking at some half-baked idea whose foundation is not only unproven but violates the things we allready know to be true.  So unless there is a whole lot of research available behind it that she can allready point to, there are more constructive things I can do with that time.  There is many more things to learn and know.

Same with this.  I've met enough jerks in my gaming days, I know what I like and what I don't like.  In my 13 years I don't think the overall community has gotten better, more players and bigger games IMO typically make the overall community worse.  A game that lets other players grief, or rewards them by giving them their loot means that the game will have enough griefers to make the game unenjoyable for me, regardless of what else it offers.  There are other games on the market that do offer most of what I'm looking for.  So it may not be 100% positive that the game will be a griefing, gank whore paradise, but unless there is something else that controls it, I would avoid it until it shows itself to be that something else.

The purpsoe of the game is entertainment, if there is too much griefing it fails to live up to that premise.

Don't compare this to real life.  Yes there are always bullies.  However if I'm going to a school, regardless of the bully, the purpose is to learn something, I will leave the school when that purpose is no longer being met.  Same with the game.  If it isn't entertaining me, it is not serving it's purpose.

Purely player-driven MMO... what would you call it? "Gimme your lunch money"?

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Sorry for the late reply (im at work)

Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.

We've already established that things like history are not anything you're concerned with, so I won't bother with that kind of silliness, but I do find this interesting:

"fear" "defeat" "bullies"

You keep shifting the argument in that direction, despite several making it clear those are not the issue. I think the bigger question here is what happened in your past experiences that you are projecting this view onto others. You seem unable to accept past, fact, history or any rational explanation, continually reverting back to this fear and bullying thing.

Why is that?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Sorry for the late reply (im at work)

Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.

 

We've already established that things like history are not anything you're concerned with, so I won't bother with that kind of silliness, but I do find this interesting:

"fear" "defeat" "bullies"

You keep shifting the argument in that direction, despite several making it clear those are not the issue. I think the bigger question here is what happened in your past experiences that you are projecting this view onto others. You seem unable to accept past, fact, history or any rational explanation, continually reverting back to this fear and bullying thing.

Why is that?

Mr. Sunsoar had a legitimate claim given his experience with darkfall etc.. however he does not speak for the other 90% that wrote off the game that had no such experience. My gaming history is quite extensive and my overall expereince been great obviously if dont mind playing with the possibility of being killed/razed (permenantly) for that matter. Im completely open to any game no matter how carebarish or hardcore it is because I will find a way to have fun and be successful.

I was just hoping others thought the same about themselves.

Zod out

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Sorry for the late reply (im at work)

Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.

 

We've already established that things like history are not anything you're concerned with, so I won't bother with that kind of silliness, but I do find this interesting:

"fear" "defeat" "bullies"

You keep shifting the argument in that direction, despite several making it clear those are not the issue. I think the bigger question here is what happened in your past experiences that you are projecting this view onto others. You seem unable to accept past, fact, history or any rational explanation, continually reverting back to this fear and bullying thing.

Why is that?

Mr. Sunsoar had a legitimate claim given his experience with darkfall etc.. however he does not speak for the other 90% that wrote off the game that had no such experience. My gaming history is quite extensive and my overall expereince been great obviously if dont mind playing with the possibility of being killed/razed (permenantly) for that matter. Im completely open to any game no matter how carebarish or hardcore it is because I will find a way to have fun and be successful.

I was just hoping others thought the same about themselves.

Zod out

 

 Yes we can find a way to have fun in any game. That is possible.

However why would I want to go through all the work and effort needed to have in a game where others are deliberately trying to interfere with me when I can have just as much, if not more, in a game where they are not trying to do that.

*boggle*

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

...snip

...snip

...snip

 

 Yes we can find a way to have fun in any game. That is possible.

However why would I want to go through all the work and effort needed to have in a game where others are deliberately trying to interfere with me when I can have just as much, if not more, in a game where they are not trying to do that.

*boggle*

Exactly. Unless they start giving out awards for most griefed, there is no reward for watching other people break what you create.

Let's play it out though. Red curtain opens. And the nominees are - guy who was picking flowers killed in 2 shots from behind - video plays, audience clapping. Lady with a basket of chicken eggs - caught while walking from her shed to her home and ganked by 5 well geared players with full egg loot - video plays, audience cheering. And the winner is...

Thank you, thank you everyone. I mean I knew I was griefed but WOW, the most griefed in the game?!?! I'd like to thank the people that did nothing to stop it and the people that planned it. Pre-meditation, how about pre-slackification. You big knuckleheads - here's a noogie. Oh, and to all the people behind the scenes who laughed at me when they heard the story. YOU should have this award, no really, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't be up here today. Remember the time I asked you Frank why you were holding that lawnmower blade and you said - I reckon I'ma' gonna' keel you wid ut. Who knew it would get me here today. Good times, good times. Thank you all!

0_o

The thread title of "If a purely player-driven MMO were to come out, would you play it?" is kind of amusing, OP.  Because when MMORPGs came out, they were player-driven.

*Waves to original UO*

EVE is the only one that comes to mind as the most player-driven title of the famed names out there in today's MMORPGs, and even then, it was a 2003-2004-ish release and is considered "Old School."

Back in Phantasy Star Online for the gamecube (even moreso than the DC) hackers had complete control over the game and it´s content to the point they could add and take away quests, and they could even ban or delevel people´s characters for the lulz.

This created several, unnamed "factions" where people hurdled themselves into specific "safe zones" or around a few decent hackers that prevented this from happening around themselves.

It also made it so that you words and actions mattered a lot since a rage moment to the wrong person could cost you the character or even your account.

And back then there was no such thing as "Staff" or "customer support" xD

It was an unique experience.

Originally posted by znaiika
That would be the end of MMO era, then back to single player.

Today's MMORPGs *are* SPRPGs.  They just require you to be constantly online to play it.

Look at all the compaining about an MMO title that promotes grouping.

Look at all the complaining of any obstacles to solo-friendliness.

Look at all the complaining about the idea of getting past "soul-binding" and such to get other people involved with gear you find.  It's like the developers hate the idea of players sharing stuff, and you MMORPG people bought off on it. [I no longer count myself in the crowd.  Stopped the shenanigans in 2009, but do keep tabs on what the genre is up to.  Maybe MMORPGs will be about... "Multiplayer" again.  Who knows?]

Look at all the complaining just on the idea of expanding an MMO title to other things outside of combat.  Even talk about spicing up game economies is met by hostile fire.

This is just some of the stuff, and all coming from today's "Massive Multiplayer Online*" Role Playing crowd.

A purely player-driven MMORPG wouldn't mean bringing the genre back to single player.  Looking at the traits of modern MMORPGs, they already essentially are SPRPGs that require an online connection.

* = I use the term very loosely.

Originally posted by IfrianMMO

Back in Phantasy Star Online for the gamecube (even moreso than the DC) hackers had complete control over the game and it´s content to the point they could add and take away quests, and they could even ban or delevel people´s characters for the lulz.

This created several, unnamed "factions" where people hurdled themselves into specific "safe zones" or around a few decent hackers that prevented this from happening around themselves.

It also made it so that you words and actions mattered a lot since a rage moment to the wrong person could cost you the character or even your account.

And back then there was no such thing as "Staff" or "customer support" xD

 

It was an unique experience.

Is there an article on that somewhere? If not, could you write a post or blog here about PSO back then and the stuff you describe? That is some genuinely interesting gaming history.

Originally posted by Neverdyne

The world would be completely player-driven. Think of a world where "nature" elements are there, but anything "man-made" is done by players. Players can kill whoever they want, they can loot whatever they want from others, etc. Character progression would be in the form of skill trees similar to SWG; you choose to be whatever you want. There would be no pre-made cities, or factions, etc. Instead players can build whatever they want similar to Minecraft or Rift Dimensions (but nothing would be instanced). Buildings can be destroyed by player attacks. Crafters would need to compete to get the best resources (again, similar to SWG). Would you play such a game?  A box full of sand and a few shovels, but nothing else? I've always been curious about how such a game would be received.

I have always wondered why sandbox mmo ideas always seem to incorporate a ton of built-in griefing systems. Your idea is neat, but it would wind up being a completely niche game, and probably not very well made (if history was an indicator of the future). On the flip side, if a game of this nature operated more like Minecraft, where you could completely separate yourself from any and all griefers (unless you chose to play on an open pvp style server), I could see the game doing very well.

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

 

Sorry for the late reply (im at work)

Your analogy is incorrect only because 100% of the time touching a hot stove will result in a burn. However a better anology would be if you were being bullied in school your whole freshman year whenever you walked down the Main hall. You changed schools however you still avoid the Main Hall because every school has bullies and the Main hall is always crowded with people you figure one of them is bound to be a bully.

Fact there will always be greifers in every game. To say from your "experience" you know that this is going to happen to you is admitting defeat. I actually play games similiar to this and I can say I havent experienced the worst there is. The OP just stated that you could build whatever you want (there has never been an MMO where you could build whatever you want)... I saw the OP post and thought "the possibilities" others saw "Im going to die and my building will be razed". So if one wanted to build something that would prevent the worst possible, one could.

Quick question ... what games did you get your experience from... just curious.

 

The question is why should one waste their time when there is a chance ... even a small one ... that there will be griefing.

Using your analogy, why should i choose a school with a chance of some bullies, when there are plenty of schools when bullying is not possible because the rule of physics is changed so that none of them can touch you in the main hall?

All schools have bullies verbal, cyber and physical ... when there is a will theres a way.

This is a "school" where you can learn & train to be anything... why would you let bullies get in the way of your future?

We are talking about MMOs here ... school is just an analogy.

And it is possible to avoid griefing in a random PUG instanced dungeon, since you can just quit and join another one.

And you are right, i would not let bully get in my way of my entertainment, simply by playing games where they cannot affect me. That is the point.