Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by jazz.be

I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

it'd look good if someone makes it look good.

this is where the guy with no life comes in. He will make your world amazing. he has the skills, the time, and the passion.

end result for you: world looks good.

end result for him: he's the God of a New World.

Win-Win.

That's the obsession. because effort would be recognised.

The two problems with that are

there is a very low chance that the guy will make something that isn't crap

there is a very low change what he creates will be what anyone else wants

 

People get all dreamy eyed over these player-driven worlds because they only consider them from the viewpoint of being able to do all sorts of things they consider wonderful. I really don't think they ever stop to look at it from the perspective of being subjected to all sorts of things others consider wonderful. They do single-player dreaming and never apply the whole "MMO" aspect to it.

Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

Originally posted by Torik

Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

It's both hilarious and sad that you just described one of the most likely outcomes. :)

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by jazz.be

I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

it'd look good if someone makes it look good.

this is where the guy with no life comes in. He will make your world amazing. he has the skills, the time, and the passion.

end result for you: world looks good.

end result for him: he's the God of a New World.

Win-Win.

That's the obsession. because effort would be recognised.

The two problems with that are

there is a very low chance that the guy will make something that isn't crap

there is a very low change what he creates will be what anyone else wants

 

People get all dreamy eyed over these player-driven worlds because they only consider them from the viewpoint of being able to do all sorts of things they consider wonderful. I really don't think they ever stop to look at it from the perspective of being subjected to all sorts of things others consider wonderful. They do single-player dreaming and never apply the whole "MMO" aspect to it.

Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

In reading this tread, one quote comes to mind. It is from movie Groundhog Day, 'People are morons'. A game like this will end up being a griefers - idiot paradise because the only people who will enjoy the game are people that get pleasure out of giving others problems.

Originally posted by Neverdyne

The world would be completely player-driven. Think of a world where "nature" elements are there, but anything "man-made" is done by players. Players can kill whoever they want, they can loot whatever they want from others, etc. Character progression would be in the form of skill trees similar to SWG; you choose to be whatever you want. There would be no pre-made cities, or factions, etc. Instead players can build whatever they want similar to Minecraft or Rift Dimensions (but nothing would be instanced). Buildings can be destroyed by player attacks. Crafters would need to compete to get the best resources (again, similar to SWG). Would you play such a game?  A box full of sand and a few shovels, but nothing else? I've always been curious about how such a game would be received.

you mean a lá shadowbane? who save for 4 towns npcs made everything else was player made? that will depends, if it would be like the last days of SB I think I pass, if you was a new player you could do nothing and most guild recruiting would want you to play x hours a day and be willing to roll several chars to fit they need don't think so

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

LOL ..

And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

Amen, agreed!

ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

I would disagree. There is a big difference between a professional and one who is not. In fact, this is exactly the kind of attitudes ShakyMo was trying to dispell.

I have read novels since i was like 10. Do you think i can be a novelist? I have watched sci-fi movies since i was 10. Do you think i can be the director of the next Star War movie?

The same applies to game design.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

LOL ..

And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

Amen, agreed!

ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

I would disagree. There is a big difference between a professional and one who is not. In fact, this is exactly the kind of attitudes ShakyMo was trying to dispell.

I have read novels since i was like 10. Do you think i can be a novelist? I have watched sci-fi movies since i was 10. Do you think i can be the director of the next Star War movie?

The same applies to game design.

It saddens me that after all this time you'd think I was in any way suggesting that people who held that contention were anything less than batshit crazy.

As nice as it would be, sadly we have quite a terrible array of players out there that would ruin the experience and just destroy such a world working out if it was completely 'player driven' as mentioned. Minecraft is probably as close to it as you get yet having a 'vanilla' world is basically asking for it to be griefed and destroyed. It forces servers to put on things liek grief protection and all which makes it less 'player-driven' so to speak since it is setting up more rules. 

Basically, no. Unfortunately the playerbase is just untrustworthy and would basically ruin the world.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by jazz.be

I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

it'd look good if someone makes it look good.

this is where the guy with no life comes in. He will make your world amazing. he has the skills, the time, and the passion.

end result for you: world looks good.

end result for him: he's the God of a New World.

Win-Win.

That's the obsession. because effort would be recognised.

The two problems with that are

there is a very low chance that the guy will make something that isn't crap

there is a very low change what he creates will be what anyone else wants

 

People get all dreamy eyed over these player-driven worlds because they only consider them from the viewpoint of being able to do all sorts of things they consider wonderful. I really don't think they ever stop to look at it from the perspective of being subjected to all sorts of things others consider wonderful. They do single-player dreaming and never apply the whole "MMO" aspect to it.

Most likely scenario would be that the guy spents days/weeks building a grand structure and a second after it is finished another player blows it up and replaces it with a giant penis.

In reading this tread, one quote comes to mind. It is from movie Groundhog Day, 'People are morons'. A game like this will end up being a griefers - idiot paradise because the only people who will enjoy the game are people that get pleasure out of giving others problems.

I don't think you need a movie to come up with that quote. :-)

The problem is that "people" consist of many inviduals. And the majority turns people into morons.

Even if delivering quality content is possible.

You may have one individual who does positive things, but it will all fade away in the chaotic crap created by those who are not able to create positive content.

Originally posted by Neverdyne

The world would be completely player-driven. Think of a world where "nature" elements are there, but anything "man-made" is done by players. Players can kill whoever they want, they can loot whatever they want from others, etc. Character progression would be in the form of skill trees similar to SWG; you choose to be whatever you want. There would be no pre-made cities, or factions, etc. Instead players can build whatever they want similar to Minecraft or Rift Dimensions (but nothing would be instanced). Buildings can be destroyed by player attacks. Crafters would need to compete to get the best resources (again, similar to SWG). Would you play such a game?  A box full of sand and a few shovels, but nothing else? I've always been curious about how such a game would be received.

I tried Wurm but couldn't get into it because of the UI, I wanted to like it but couldn't. 

If someone were to make Wurm with a more intuitive UI I would give it a real shot.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

LOL ..

And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

Amen, agreed!

ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

I would disagree. There is a big difference between a professional and one who is not. In fact, this is exactly the kind of attitudes ShakyMo was trying to dispell.

I have read novels since i was like 10. Do you think i can be a novelist? I have watched sci-fi movies since i was 10. Do you think i can be the director of the next Star War movie?

The same applies to game design.

It saddens me that after all this time you'd think I was in any way suggesting that people who held that contention were anything less than batshit crazy.

LOL .. i miss-read you. Sorry .. i apologize. It is batshit crazy.

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

 

True, this fact must be considered.

However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

 

True, this fact must be considered.

However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

 No not from fear, from experience.  We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation.  Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

 

True, this fact must be considered.

However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

 No not from fear, from experience.  We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation.  Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.

 

How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

True, this fact must be considered.

However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

 No not from fear, from experience.  We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation.  Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.

Agreed. It's not fear of a different approach, rather experience with what that approach would deliver. 

Basically, been there, done that. Not interested.

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by General_Dru-Zod
A complete world you yourself have an opportunity to take part in and change and all people can do is think about whos coming to take it away... pusillanimous world we live in.

Because that is what you have to consider. That's not lack of courage, it's presence of foresight. A great and wonderful world of freedom to create and do whatever you want only looks great and wonderful when you ingore the fact that everyone else can create and do whatever they want, too.

 

True, this fact must be considered.

However many of you opted not to join such a world in fear of being taken from dispite the obvious upsides.

 No not from fear, from experience.  We play these games for enjoyment and relaxation.  Dealing with idiots destroying what I'm working on is not fun or relaxing.

 

How do you know this will happen to you ... you've already admitted defeat.

 

 Once again, experience.  There is no win or defeat.  I choose my own battles and this is one in the form presented by the OP I choose not to participate in.

You can't lose a battle you were never in.