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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » CC and Interrupts will make or break

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84 posts found
  aylwynn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/13
Posts: 95

2/19/13 4:55:25 AM#41
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by aylwynn
Originally posted by Stiler

I am not a fan of CC, in any way.

To me CC, which locks your character up, where you can not defend, just takes away part of the skill and fun in combat.

Games get buitl around CC, then counter abilities, thent his and that, instead of the game being buitl around combat itself it can become a huge mess of cc, interrupts, silences, all ways to take people "out" of fights, rather then giving them more tools to use during combat toa ctually fight.

This is just my opinion, and I know there'll be CC in CU, I just hope it's on the lower end side and there aren't a ton of them and there are many ways to counter it.

As a melee fighter in most rpgs CC's are a huge annoyance, and leads to balancing range vs melee a nightmare.

I would rather that the archer/mage kill a melee fighter with good aim (IE if I'm running toward an archer and he headshoots me with perfect aim, then GREAT, I'd love that and the death would feel justified and apporaite), however to just get chain stunned, not be able to do anything about it, just sit there and watch yourself die, that's not fun, it's annoying, and it just doesn't feel good imo, for either side.

 

Playing as a range character, I'd much rather win a fight because of my skill to hit, the combat abilities/skills I have, rather then stunning someone then dropping massive damage on them as usual.

I don't want to insult you but this sounds like "I don't want to think about anything than choping my enemy's head!".

CC and counter abilities like reducing your meele-character's CC duration in all cases provided tactic. I never experienced being "chain CCed" in Dark Age because there was a timer for about a minute. People had a inside their head for CCing that player again. It provided your brain in PvP pretty much.

No, I understand it can add strategy and tactics, but  a lot of those tactics usually revolve around cc's and such.

A lot of games (not talking about DOAC specifically here) end up being built around "cc's" in combat, breaking them, giving immunities, on long cd's usually, and a lot of them deaths arise from being stunned the entire duration of a fight in some instances of mmo's.  you have to spend so much time balancing cc, giving classes abilities to break them, then combat ends up being focused a lot on cc's.

SW:TOR for instance was terrible about this.

I'd rather see combat itself less focused on cc's and interrupting cc's, and more on actual combat , in terms of dodging, blocking, specific weapon strategies for players and combat moves.

For example lets take an archer, in many mmo's the main way they try to balance archers vs melee is two fold, they giv ethe archer a type of "stun" or cc, so he can keep enemies at range and shoot them without being in threat of being hit. Then they give melee guys a type of charge or other abilities. Then they constantly balance and tweak around this, adding cc breakers, immunties,etc.

Instead, imagine if the archer had no direct hot-key cc ability, rather if his role in combat was less about hitting that hotkey to get his stun or slow off, and he actually had to aim for it? You want to slow someone as an archer? Aim for their leg, and depending if you hit them, what armour they are wearing, etc it has a % chance to slow them.  A good headshot actually vital an dmajor damage, so archers are less focused on keeping range and constnatly widdling away at a "health bar" and more on actually aiming, hitting vital parts of enemies and other things. could even allow archers as part of their leveling up, to acquire skills to constract useful things, such as pavise(shields you could deploy to provide defense for you while you reload, etc) among spikes to protect from cavalry charging and other things.

As a melee user, you see an arrow coming at you? Try to be quick enough to move out of hte way, if you can't try to shield it with your shield,  They could take this further by having shields actually block based on size, but at the cost of also having weight. This would add more elements to hav epeople play their characters.

For instance, a guy with a tower shield can block range attacks better, but naturally he's slower because of the size and weight of his shield, whereas a guy with a smaller shield is quicker and more nimble, but is easier to hit with ai range attack and would have to try and block a much smaller space if they can.

You talk about tactics, what would be bad about using more real world tactics? Instead of usual stuns, etc you had formations, and terrain based tactics you could employ. Such as pitch fires, traps, etc. I would LOVE to see keep sieges play out like how one might think they would, complete with pitch fires, battering rams, pits, moats, oil traps, ladder climbing, and all sorts of great tactics they used in such cases.

Severance is a game I throw around a lot for melee combat, because it had one of the best/most fun melee combat systems in a game i've played (it wasn't an mmo) but it had more depth and skill to it's combat then other melee combat systems in any game and its combat wasn't focused on cc's.

 

I don't want simple combat. I want in-depth combat that provides a use for a lower level player to play smart, use tactics they learn and strategy, and be able to kill someoen of a higher level based on that.

 

 

I know how your words worked out in GuildWars 2 ... Dodging, weapon switching, weapon based skills, no longduration CC. It is terrible and I always feel playing without using my brain.

Its logic that your enemy will get stunned if your character uses a "shieldbash" or the "hammer crush"-skill. Thats CC. Even crippling/snaring the enemy by slashing his knee is part of CC ...

Using "real world tactics" in an MMORPG is a bad idea. Its a game not the real world. Even in "real world combat" there are lame tactics which are unbalanced - Let's don't talk about it. Its a game with classic mages, classic healers, warriors with shields, greatswords and some rangers with a pet, daggers and bows. There is no place for absolute realism.

CC is one big part of mage classes to guarantee that they are not just about "spamming simply all damage skills". Its even not just about ganking/killing somebody while he is chainstunned. While my grouphealer gets attacked I will CC the attacking foe for sure to create some more space between my healer and the enemy to avoid damage.

  replicant

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/04
Posts: 46

"Be resolute, fear no sacrifice and surmount every
difficulty to win victory." - Mao

2/19/13 6:32:07 AM#42
CC is a very slippery slope and I can say firmly that I don't think any game has gotten it right yet.

Bear "replicant" Powell
"I am Shaolin-Style!"

  alexisevic

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 41

2/19/13 11:00:28 AM#43
Originally posted by aylwynn

 

 

.... no longduration CC. It is terrible and I always feel playing without using my brain.

 

My thoughts exactly.  DAoC was the only system where I actually had to use my brain.  It was because it had interupts and CC. Every other game sence just came down to button mashing and luck.  

  Salemov

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/11
Posts: 9

2/19/13 12:06:58 PM#44
Originally posted by aylwynn

Actually I agree with you Zarkor. Long duration CC/Buffs/Debuffs and rupts forced you to think about your positiong, movement and target picking.

By the way ... Here we meet again if you're the one from Uthgard :D

I agree with you guys

  DrunkWolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1067

2/19/13 12:15:54 PM#45

There is no place for CC when it comes to world pvp.  that shit needs to stay in arenas  when its even teams and it can be used as strategy. but out in the world CC is very stupid.

 

When your out in the world questing or grinding what ever it may be and multiple people decide to jump you, there is nothing worse than being cced till death. its bad enough its 3v1 or 4v1 but if you cant even control your character to try and at least get away then why even play?

 

people complain about being ganked all the time, well my friends this is why your crying your eyes out. your rooted, stuned, knocked down, and mezzed the entire fight. not to mention some douchebag is probably standing next to you invisible waiting to burst damage on your ass from behind while you fight a mob. These are very CHEAP mechanics, and sadly some how they have become the norm in MMOs.

 

best world pvp game i played was Asherons Call darktide server. NO CC, NO invisible crap. and because of it, you could fight and beat multiple people at once. i have seen good players fight and kill 5 people at once, but if there was CC involved then that would never be possible.

  Wolvards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/12
Posts: 674

2/19/13 1:08:10 PM#46

I think a lot of people had bad experiences with CC, or aren't thinking things through, here's my point of view on CC.

 

DAoC IMO has it in a sweet spot. Sure the CC CAN be long, but that's honestly your fault for not having a counter or two available. With RR's, abilities, and most importantly, friends to cure your mez, i've never been out of a fight in DAoC for longer then maybe a 9 second Zephyr (which you can't do anything, but also can't take dps).

 

Games like GW2 have it wrong for "open world" (open field combat). 

 

  • No true CC, AoE CC. This is why even warriors use ranged primarily, this is why WvW is dominated by blind zergs following a commander symbol, not really "strategizing", just, running around attacking gates. 
  • No true cures, sure you have stability and the likes (could go into detail, but i'm sure most get what i'm saying)
  • No immunities -- This is where my problem lies
With no immunities you can essentially lock a target down as long as your class allows you too. A hammer warrior with mace mace offhand, and a couple utility skills, can render a single target useless for a lifetime. That's not CC, that's player control. I don't like player control, I like CC.
 
CC is a "50 second mez" break-able by ANYTHING (a 1 dps spell breaks it, a debuff, any action taken against you breaks it). Or a 45 second root broken by a cure, or dps (but you are still able to make actions). A few to most of 9 second stun (I think anything over 10 is going a bit far, but there ARE counters). Cureable by an instant use ability, but has a re-use timer longer then the immunity (this way you can't NOT ever be stunned, but you commonly have a cure ready).
 
In small man fights, lets say 1v1 upwards of 3v3, you SHOULD only get the ONE stun off, the ONE mez off. You can't be stunned 5 times in 30 seconds, or mez'd every 10 seconds, or have your player "controlled" permanently by another. That's not CC, that is player control. That's how I see DAoC. If you were ever waiting for that 50+ second mez to wear off, i'm not pointing at game mechanics for a stupid game, i'm pointing at the player for not being prepared.
 
This kind of CC also helps with large warfare as well. Because it hinders the zergs, but doesn't register them obsolete. Say you're running 80 people attacking stuffs. The defenders have... 60. Obviously the defenders should have the element of surprise. That's where this CC comes in. They can take the zerg from the side, and effectively hinder them just enough to give a crippling blow. Very rarely in DAoC does a first time counter work unless it was executed that spot on. Normally the defenders re-coupe and hit a 2nd time for an overwhelming effect. CC in DAoC is not so much of a "render them useless for 30 seconds", but more of a "I bought us that 10 seconds we need to get in their faces with melee so we don't get eaten up by ranged".
 
In the actual open world fights, like an open field, CC isn't going to do much of anything. There is so much AoE's going on that if you get mez'd it will get broke. Unless you're a ninja and positioned yourself somewhere that AoE's aren't hitting you. I guess I see CC differently then most. I only consider DAoC having CROWD CONTROL, and every other game i've played having PLAYER CONTROL. Being able to keep 1 person, or any amount of people out of fights via cheap stuns and crap, is not fun. But being able to use that mez situationally and change the tide of a fight, is why I love my Bard in DAoC.
 
Hell I didn't even go into how all this works into 8v8's, which is why a lot of people loved DAoC. The way tank grps worked as opposed to a caster grp, or an assist via debuff/nuke grp. 
 
Sure this new Camelot game should change up CC a bit, but saying the CC in DAoC is done wrong, or even bad, just makes me think those people haven't really experienced how the CC works in that game, but have rather heard the horror stories of RR1 people with no purge getting mez'd, and being stuck.
 
One last thing (I know, long post), i'm not talking about DAoC pre-2007ish, i'm talking about the past 3-5 years of DAoC, where they had the counters to all this CC. I agree, early DAoC CC was stupid dumb. But they worked with it, and made it what it is now, and i'm very happy with the way it turned out. It's effective but counter-able. And to anyone who says CC in open world doesn't work, go look what the combat in GW2 is like. Cause that game has no proper CC. It's not a bad game, just a different open world fighting style, and NOTHING like DAoC.

The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7156

2/19/13 1:11:48 PM#47
CC is part of any good pvp system, and it should be meaningful. If you don't like CC you like spamfest. There is no in between.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/19/13 1:16:15 PM#48

CCs were put in PvP to get carebears to take part in it and was one of several ideas that dumbed down PvPing to PvE levels. The developers are still saying it today as can been seen on the TESO website, they believe thier players to be so dumb that they need races to be in closed off factions so they will know what the enemy looks like.

Tells a lot when a game maker admits publicly that their target audience are not to bright when it comes to PvP.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 1:41:43 PM#49
Hey how's that 400 man guild of yours going?
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 1:44:35 PM#50
I actually really liked wars cc once they fixed it. Medium duration, enough for a smaller group to take out a bigger group and all breaked on damage which meant you could slaughter those aoe bomb groups if you knew what you were doing.
  Vargur

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 142

2/19/13 1:48:38 PM#51
Originally posted by Wolvards

I think a lot of people had bad experiences with CC, or aren't thinking things through, here's my point of view on CC.


 
CC is a "50 second mez" break-able by ANYTHING (a 1 dps spell breaks it, a debuff, any action taken against you breaks it). Or a 45 second root broken by a cure, or dps (but you are still able to make actions). A few to most of 9 second stun (I think anything over 10 is going a bit far, but there ARE counters). Cureable by an instant use ability, but has a re-use timer longer then the immunity (this way you can't NOT ever be stunned, but you commonly have a cure ready).
 

This kind of CC also helps with large warfare as well. Because it hinders the zergs, but doesn't register them obsolete. Say you're running 80 people attacking stuffs. The defenders have... 60. Obviously the defenders should have the element of surprise. That's where this CC comes in. They can take the zerg from the side, and effectively hinder them just enough to give a crippling blow. Very rarely in DAoC does a first time counter work unless it was executed that spot on. Normally the defenders re-coupe and hit a 2nd time for an overwhelming effect. CC in DAoC is not so much of a "render them useless for 30 seconds", but more of a "I bought us that 10 seconds we need to get in their faces with melee so we don't get eaten up by ranged".
 
In the actual open world fights, like an open field, CC isn't going to do much of anything. There is so much AoE's going on that if you get mez'd it will get broke. Unless you're a ninja and positioned yourself somewhere that AoE's aren't hitting you. I guess I see CC differently then most. I only consider DAoC having CROWD CONTROL, and every other game i've played having PLAYER CONTROL. Being able to keep 1 person, or any amount of people out of fights via cheap stuns and crap, is not fun. But being able to use that mez situationally and change the tide of a fight, is why I love my Bard in DAoC.
 

Sure this new Camelot game should change up CC a bit, but saying the CC in DAoC is done wrong, or even bad, just makes me think those people haven't really experienced how the CC works in that game, but have rather heard the horror stories of RR1 people with no purge getting mez'd, and being stuck.
 
One last thing (I know, long post), i'm not talking about DAoC pre-2007ish, i'm talking about the past 3-5 years of DAoC, where they had the counters to all this CC. I agree, early DAoC CC was stupid dumb. But they worked with it, and made it what it is now, and i'm very happy with the way it turned out. It's effective but counter-able. And to anyone who says CC in open world doesn't work, go look what the combat in GW2 is like. Cause that game has no proper CC. It's not a bad game, just a different open world fighting style, and NOTHING like DAoC.

First you have to realize is that most players left DAoC pre-2007, so what the state of the game is today is irrelevant for most. Our memories are from the time we played the game, not today.

If this game is going to attract players who are not into the hardcore/elite category, then they need to tone down CCs. Some classes had plenty of counters, and finely tuned groups could work out of situations where someone got the jump on them, but most players did not run with a specific group which was fine-tuned. As a hunter I soloed a lot, but joined sieges when Midgard was under attack, and too often I found myself mezzed, nearsighted, stunned, and with only Purge2 I had to be careful about when to use it. I did not have a group backing me with counters and heals if I got caught, and for long periods of time I had to just hide while I waited for nearsight to expire or Purge to come back up and I felt useless.

And that brings me to the big key: How does the average player feel? Like we are in a fight, or mostly stand around feeling useless?

People can say all they want about how there are counters and this and that, but for many players, perhaps even most, those are not available due to class restrictions or group composition. I am not saying that there should be no CCs in the game, but don't make them the key feature. Don't let the 8mans defeat 50 people over and over.

I liked the principles behind melee stuns, most classes had them available in some form. Granted, the 9sec shieldbash felt like easymode compared to the rear-positional spear stun, but most players worked through it. Personally I felt 9 seconds was too long for a stun and it could easily be max 5 secs; enough time to pull of one positional or two, but no more.

Caster CC was harder to balance, especially with the buffed casting times and availability. It didn't help that Midgard's primary CC class was the Pac-healer (which I also played). We had the insta-CCs, but shorter range and the other realms ability to recast quicker once immunity was over. I don't mind casters getting some CCs as well; they should get some, but it needs to be balanced in a better way. Perhaps higher chances of resisting the spells are the way to go? That way the "winning" side gets an advantage, but not total control of the field.

CSE needs to decide if they want to have RvR or 8vs8. If they go for RvR, then massive CCs available cause massive frustrations. Personally, I hope this game won't cater to only the hardcore players, but find a balance where more casual players can enjoy it too.

  Deto123

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 698

2/19/13 2:06:03 PM#52
Originally posted by jtcgs

CCs were put in PvP to get carebears to take part in it and was one of several ideas that dumbed down PvPing to PvE levels. The developers are still saying it today as can been seen on the TESO website, they believe thier players to be so dumb that they need races to be in closed off factions so they will know what the enemy looks like.

Tells a lot when a game maker admits publicly that their target audience are not to bright when it comes to PvP.

Lol, you re still stuck on this crap. You have no idea what a faction game is about.

  kraiden

Staff Writer

Joined: 10/16/05
Posts: 642

The Original Hater

2/19/13 2:07:57 PM#53

my basic philosophies........

 

the more damage you deal.. the less CC and utility you have

thats where games like wow messed up. give all the cc to the rogues and mages and none to the lesser played classes.

 

DAoC worked well because the non popular classes had all the best abilities. how happy were you when you first grouped with an AUG healer and got celerity? remember how important paladin was with group End? how about when your mentalist buddy discovered the wonders of nearsight?

 

so to me the shield tanks having knockbacks, knock up, known downs, snares and stuns are ok with me

 

cloth caster dirtect damage , stealthers, and light tanks should have ZERO CC.

 

as far as interupts? I think we should go back to the days of

Spells do HUGE effects, but you have long cast time and getting hit ruins the spell. but where as in daoc if you got hit you 100% lost the spell, nd every other game has had a cast bar that only went down a little, I think it should be in the middle and have a cast bar but when you are hit it goes back to 25%, then 50% then 75% and then after that the spell wont be set back at all and repeat the process again for the next spell.

 

no insta cast spells. casters should have to go back to casting spells.  not throwing them.

archers , i feel should go to where they were at in Warhammer. You can move while using special abilities, but they had a 1 -2 sec cast bar.

 

  tlear

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/07
Posts: 143

2/19/13 2:08:05 PM#54

After initial RAs were introduced everything had counter(thats about 8 month into the game?). only classes that were kinda screwed were the melee hybrids who did not have determination which was key. But betwen realms it worked out fine I thought. AOE mezz and aoe interupts are proven way to have smaller number competitive, without them you gona have the usual spam fest.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/19/13 2:11:54 PM#55
Originally posted by Deto123

Lol, you re still stuck on this crap. You have no idea what a faction game is about.

 You think you know what a faction is about because you require a game maker to tell you, and they even state it on the TESO website, they believe you are too stupid to know who your enemey is so they MUST make each one look different, its in their own words!

I however can play a faction based game and not have my hand held by big daddy game maker, a game like Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Age of Conan and countless others that had open world PvP, factions, faction switching and OMG MOMMY AN EMENY THATS THE SAME RACE AS ME WHATEVER WILL I DO HE LOOKS LIKE ME!

/cries river and runs to a game maker that will protect me from having to think and be aware, even let me CC them so I can AoE spam like im farming mobs in PvE.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 2:19:04 PM#56
Deto he's never played daoc, he's just butthurt that TESO isn't a star wars galaxies clone. Because MF and MJ once worked together, he's apparently decided on guilt by association, and continued his anti daoc rhetoric on the cu threads.

Apparently he was in a 400 man guild in daoc, and they all quit on the same day because "daoc was such a terrible game". Back then daoc servers only supported 1500 players, you would think we would have heard about it if practically an entire realm upped sticks overnight wouldn't you :D

also he's currently playing gw2, which I find hilarious as gw2 is basicly a super casual "my first daoc" with a few bits of coh and rift chucked in.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 2:22:45 PM#57
Kraiden
That's a good point, giving cc to spike dps isn't a good idea, prefer primary cc to be tanks and / or low dps cc specialists. Encourages teamwork.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 2:24:29 PM#58
Can't speak for Ao.

But Aoc has BAD pvp.
  Cernan

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/06
Posts: 350

2/19/13 2:31:09 PM#59

DAoC did a lot of things right, and from MJ's recent RPS thread I don't see that CU will be a ton different.  DAoC had classes that specialized in CC.  In most games today every class has at least 1 form of CC if not many more to follow. CU is going to have RPS classes.  So expect to see some of the same stuff from DAoC.  When you see that bard barreling down on your group at mach5 you know who has the CC.  I liked how DAoC forced you to spec in to roles.  You could CC, damage, buff, heal, or tank (depending on class.)  However, you had to pick one role.  You could try mixing 2 of the 3 trees but you couldn't veer off to far or you became useless.  Pure classes were almost always preferred, with a few minor exceptions.  If you specced CC you couldn't damage or heal with a darn.  If you specced healing your buffing was behind.  You couldn't be good at everything like some games today.

I also miss the caster mechanics.  Casters were extremely dangerous.  However to balance their insane damage there was total spell interruption.  Any hit to a caster would completely interrept a spell (with the exception of 1 quickcast every 20 seconds.)  Bolt casters did the highest single target damage but bolts could be blocked by shields.  Todays kids don't want to bring along a shield user to intercept bolts or arrows.  They want to be able to 1v1 every person.  Team play made DAoC awesome.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1295

2/19/13 2:32:18 PM#60
Originally posted by kraiden

my basic philosophies........

 

the more damage you deal.. the less CC and utility you have

thats where games like wow messed up. give all the cc to the rogues and mages and none to the lesser played classes.

 

DAoC worked well because the non popular classes had all the best abilities. how happy were you when you first grouped with an AUG healer and got celerity? remember how important paladin was with group End? how about when your mentalist buddy discovered the wonders of nearsight?

 

so to me the shield tanks having knockbacks, knock up, known downs, snares and stuns are ok with me

 

cloth caster dirtect damage , stealthers, and light tanks should have ZERO CC.

 

as far as interupts? I think we should go back to the days of

Spells do HUGE effects, but you have long cast time and getting hit ruins the spell. but where as in daoc if you got hit you 100% lost the spell, nd every other game has had a cast bar that only went down a little, I think it should be in the middle and have a cast bar but when you are hit it goes back to 25%, then 50% then 75% and then after that the spell wont be set back at all and repeat the process again for the next spell.

 

no insta cast spells. casters should have to go back to casting spells.  not throwing them.

archers , i feel should go to where they were at in Warhammer. You can move while using special abilities, but they had a 1 -2 sec cast bar.

 

i agree mostly with you but you forget that DAOC had some of the worst classes for c/c out there. You guys must of forgot a infiltrator having a 9 second stun called dragonfang that was pretty much a one hit kill to any class out there once they hit that evade and got it off. Also minstrels used stealth and had a single target mez and 6 second stun. Stealthers in DAOC pretty much were the best dps classes out there if they hit you from stealth. I had many one on ones on my reaver with good shadowblades and nightshades that would own my ass. Some of the worst c/c started in dark age of camelot it wasnt wow that did it. Hell do you remember ignore pain on a nightshade? 50% damage reduction for 30 seconds?

 

I think people are jaded here not saying you or anyone in particular , just saying in general . They seem to forget all the bad and terrible things with DAOC and blame wow and other games for doing it instead. Hell I remember I could win every single fight on my reaver with thorn weed field and unquinchable thirst for souls with a pocket cleric with divine protection. I used to tower dive 8 man groups and get a free 8 kills every 5-10 minutes for realm points. DAOC did have some of the worst cc out there 9 second stuns are stupid in any game spam fest or not . Taking a toon out of the game for 9 seconds and not allowing them to do anything except with determination every 3 minutes is poor gaming design and shortfalls for making classes more balanced.

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