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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » If a purely player-driven MMO were to come out, would you play it?

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146 posts found
  h0urg1ass

Elite Member

Joined: 11/29/05
Posts: 285

2/19/13 1:40:32 AM#41

The vast majority of sheeple that play MMO's don't just need their hand held, they WANT their hand held from point A to point B.  There isn't much interest in a game where you make your own content.  Look at WoW.  It completely holds your hand all the way through the game.  Dying outside of raid is damn near impossible.  It's not a difficult game in the slightest.  This is, in fact, how almost every MMO is these days.

The days of sneaking through a forest at night, not being able to see very far in front of you and being able to hear skeletons somewhere off to your left, and if you run into them you're probably going to die... those days are long gone.  Now it's just the devs grabbing your hand at character creation and the two of you skipping and frolicking to max level while whistling the tune to little house on the prarie.

This is why EVE is such a niche game.  Everything you use in game, is made by another player and there is no instancing at all so even if you're participating in dev generated content, anyone can come in and poop on your parade.  It doesn't happen that often, but it CAN and that's what makes EVE unique and wonderful.

A lot of people don't give EVE more than a few hours before quitting.  It's because EVE doesn't have a learning curve.  It has a learning cliff and there are people standing at the top of it waiting to kick you back to the bottom just when you think you've learned something.

Personally, that's why I love it.  After playing on and off for eight years, I can honestly say that I still only understand about 45% of the game.  I understand my little corner.  The things that I particpate in, I know those things very well, but the activities that I have never participated in, would be like starting the game all over for me.

EDIT:  I see a few posters in this thread keep bringing up the point about griefers, but honestly, the non griefers tend to band together to police the griefers in open ended games.

I know, I was part of one of these groups when I first started EVE.  The area that I was living in had one really good NPC mission agent that paid really well when you did missions for him, but the ptoblem was that it was in a low security area.  Pirates figured out that we were running missions there so they formed together in a corporation to start hunting us and killing us in our missions.

Well, we put our own intelligence channel together, and only let known missions runners into it.  Then, when the pirates would show up, we would all jump in a PVP ship and band together to push them out of our system.  We called ourselves something like the Molden Heath Defense Force, and a lot of us ended up quitting the carebear scene and made pirate hunting our sole profession.  I know.  I was the co-CEO of the first pirate hunting corp.

Players WILL police players if you give them the tools to do so.  In our case it was as simple as being able to form our own chat channel where we could share intel on where they were and what they were doing.

  ragz45

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 476

2/19/13 2:13:48 AM#42
Originally posted by h0urg1ass

A lot of people don't give EVE more than a few hours before quitting.  It's because EVE doesn't have a learning curve.  It has a learning cliff and there are people standing at the top of it waiting to kick you back to the bottom just when you think you've learned something.

Actually I quit even within an hour.  Not because the game was too hard or anything else.  But the combat was borring as hell to me.  I wanted to be able to control my ship like a flgiht sim.  Not just tell it to orbit targets and fire.  I understand there is a lot of tactic's to EVE and it's not as simple as that.  But I wanted the ability to play like a flight sim, doing barrel rolls etc.

That's a huge reason I'm really excited for Star Citizen.

 

  waynejr2

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3663

RIP City of Heroes!

2/19/13 2:28:11 AM#43
Originally posted by jazz.be

I don't understand the obsession with a complete 100% player driven world.

What makes you think the world would look good? Honestly, I don't trust my fellow gamers' expertise, no offense :-)

 I imagine the game to turn out as well as these forum threads.  :D

  greenreen

Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1375

2/19/13 8:13:47 AM#44

I would play a game like that but not with the kill and full looting.

Here's a story why.

Played a little game called Haven and Hearth. Focused on crafting and building my town. Other players roamed the land being devious. Once I was trying to tame a cow (which took time) and a group of 3-5 players came closer then killed the cow. They began chasing me but I got away into my home, barely. This was all with nothing said. Another time someone stole from me and I chased their scent trails all the way across the map (big map) just to summon them offline and try to kill them. Couldn't kill them and couldn't get my stuff back because it was locked in somewhere, entire day wasted. In the time I was gone, I got a few more small things stolen but let it slide because of the effort I had just exerted for naught. A few times in the game lag killed me because a creature was attacking I couldn't fight back well. At the end of one game reset I visited a killing spree in the main trading town. People would get killed and trek back over 5 times with nothing and get killed again for nothing but their nooblet starter clothes. It was fun for a whole 2 minutes then it was verging on cruel. There was chat in the area (and chat was rare in the game) and the people that kept getting killed kept missing out on meeting and talking about the last day. Some would enter from the water and in seconds be downed. I stuck near a group of strong players and talked to save my hide by being entertaining but eventually they killed me thrice too.

The biggest problem is that stealing nets more than creating. If you can overcome that hurdle then maybe you can make it work. Games where one person can work for something and other people can take away their work aren't hardcore, they are just rewarding the bandits. If everyone played as bandits, nothing gets done. In that game seeing a stranger very likely meant  RUN, especially a group. That doesn't sound very community oriented to me. Now, I love PVP but I don't love it when everything I do in the game is up for grabs. PVP is good because players don't fight like scripted mobs. The day a wolf full loots me then I'll revisit that concept but I know for now - crafting + full loot, killing anytime = bad.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

2/19/13 9:14:42 AM#45
Originally posted by Neverdyne

The world would be completely player-driven.

Every experience I've ever had with player-created content leads me to conclude that most players are not good creators.

A lot of people dabble at painting, or writing. But grade the entire world of art from Rembrandt to Holiday Inn...or worse. What tiny fraction of them would you grade "at least commercial quality"? And how many never create anything even that good?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  User Deleted
2/19/13 9:57:14 AM#46
This ideas and the few already existing samples (MO, Darkfall) lead to a world close to real life, just worse due to the lack of any justice. Developers of such games at this point usually like to state that justice has to come from players which is just another wet dream. It simply doesn't happen except some very rare occasions. As soon players are strong enough to provide such justice they usually find other things more interesting and I even can't blame them. Playing police in a game wouldn't be my favourite activity either.
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/19/13 10:01:32 AM#47
OP, While Ultima Online was GREAT I would not play a game like that again, the genre has grown with many new ideas in terms of gameplay. I would PERHAPS give it a go if it werent open PvP.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

2/19/13 10:03:28 AM#48
Nope. That sounds like a lot of drama, and not enough fun.
  mbd1968

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/07
Posts: 1803

2/19/13 10:07:51 AM#49
I live in a player driven world, I play games to escape this.
  Aelious

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2258

World > Quest Progression

2/19/13 10:11:16 AM#50
I personally wouldn't but it would be nice since I'm not sure that slot is filled by a title at the moment.

I'm all for having MOST of the world be decided by the players but I think there should be some loose framework and lore to the game by devs. Kill anyone/full loot? There are game changes that have to go along with this and I'm not a fan.

I am really looking forward to finding out what "player driven content" EQN will have as I hope it will strike a balance between dev/player content. As my sig implies I think the best thing devs can give players are tool and systems to feel engrossed in the game, not just follow the dev's laid out path.
  Aeonblades

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 1111

2/19/13 10:15:19 AM#51
Nope, wouldn't bother with it. Player driven content has a history of being a major letdown for me, now I just avoid it because Chuck living in his parents basement trying to relive the old D&D DM days doesn't cut it for playable content.

Currently Playing: Rift, ESO, EQ1, Various betas
Have played: You name it.

  DeVoDeVo

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/13
Posts: 80

2/19/13 10:52:32 AM#52
Originally posted by h0urg1ass

 

EDIT:  I see a few posters in this thread keep bringing up the point about griefers, but honestly, the non griefers tend to band together to police the griefers in open ended games.

I know, I was part of one of these groups when I first started EVE.  The area that I was living in had one really good NPC mission agent that paid really well when you did missions for him, but the ptoblem was that it was in a low security area.  Pirates figured out that we were running missions there so they formed together in a corporation to start hunting us and killing us in our missions.

Well, we put our own intelligence channel together, and only let known missions runners into it.  Then, when the pirates would show up, we would all jump in a PVP ship and band together to push them out of our system.  We called ourselves something like the Molden Heath Defense Force, and a lot of us ended up quitting the carebear scene and made pirate hunting our sole profession.  I know.  I was the co-CEO of the first pirate hunting corp.

Players WILL police players if you give them the tools to do so.  In our case it was as simple as being able to form our own chat channel where we could share intel on where they were and what they were doing.

 

You had an area of space that was safe enough to allow  the coordination and formation  of a defense force.  EVE could not exist without Highsec. 

What the OP is proposing is a world without a safety net.   In other words, completely remove the police force in Highsec and then watch what happens.

The only police force in such a world would be run by the griefer oligarchy that eventually takes over.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3177

"A very special kind of stupidity"

2/19/13 11:05:58 AM#53
Originally posted by rojo6934
player driven mmo.... mmmh, i would play it for free. If we (the players) are going to drive the game i dont see a reason to pay other than perhaps the box, but if its pvp focused then not a chance.

 

I hear bandwidth, servers, development, support are all provided by magical faries who work for free.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4329

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

2/19/13 11:15:45 AM#54

Players policing griefers doesn't really work in the long run.  It requires people to do it constantly and what happens is people want to play the rest of the game as well.  So you have a constant turnover of people dedicating themselves as "police" and only a few people willing to do it for long periods or organize finding new people.  Eventually those people leave or want to do other parts of the game as well.

In the long run, there is no consistent police force and the griefers get to run amok.

The same situation exists with destroying buildings/property people have built.  People want to play the rest of the game, after rebuilding them 2, 3, 4... times people get tired of doing that.  After defending their building 2, 3, 4... times people get tired of doing that.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3177

"A very special kind of stupidity"

2/19/13 11:43:54 AM#55
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Players policing griefers doesn't really work in the long run.  It requires people to do it constantly and what happens is people want to play the rest of the game as well. 

Well then if nothing else it would serve as a valuable social education tool for libertarians and hippies.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

2/19/13 11:51:25 AM#56
Originally posted by Malcanis
Originally posted by rojo6934
player driven mmo.... mmmh, i would play it for free. If we (the players) are going to drive the game i dont see a reason to pay other than perhaps the box, but if its pvp focused then not a chance.

 

I hear bandwidth, servers, development, support are all provided by magical faries who work for free.

No. They are provided by whales who loves to subsidize your gaming.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

2/19/13 11:54:32 AM#57
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

2/19/13 11:55:44 AM#58
Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

LOL ..

And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

  Aeonblades

Elite Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 1111

2/19/13 11:56:19 AM#59
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

LOL ..

And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

Amen, agreed!

Currently Playing: Rift, ESO, EQ1, Various betas
Have played: You name it.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

2/19/13 12:12:05 PM#60
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by ShakyMo
No rather have a mmo built by professionals.

Would you drive a car built by drivers rather than engineers?

Would you want an alcoholic running your local?

Would you want someone who's been in hospital a lot performing surgery on you?

LOL ..

And it is funny that i agree with ShakyMo 100% this time.

Amen, agreed!

ShakyMo does have a great point, however there are many that would say being an avid gamer for over x years is enough to qualify one as a game designer.

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