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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » So when do we get a MMO that use the latest graphics

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62 posts found
  ownprocess

Novice Member

Joined: 9/06/11
Posts: 19

2/17/13 9:06:37 PM#41

Age of Conan had cutting-edge graphics on release. IMO part of the reason it flopped was because of this.

 

I remember a lot of people at the time complaining about lag/low frame rates etc & some of this was down to people simply not having suitable PCs.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13411

2/17/13 10:29:08 PM#42

If you really want to take full advantage of the geometry power of what recent graphics APIs can do, then you'll end up doing a number of things that are basically impossible to port back to DirectX 9.0c with functional performance.  This gives you a few choices:

1)  Use DirectX 10/11 and accept that no one running Windows XP will be able to play your game and no one running a discrete video card more than 6 years old will be able to run your game.

2)  Use OpenGL 3.2 or later and accept that no one running Intel graphics even one year old will be able to play your game, and again, no one running a discrete video card more than 6 years old will be able to run your game.

3)  Have a DirectX 9.0c version that has a bunch of artwork and models completely different from the more recent API version, which bloats the cost of your game tremendously.

-----

If you're using DirectX 11 and not doing anything that is a complete nightmare to port back to DirectX 9.0c, then you're avoiding most of the power of DirectX 11 and might as well just make the game DirectX 9.0c in the first place.

For tessellation in particular, unless turning tessellation down to the minimum makes your game look incredibly blocky, you've missed the point of using tessellation in the first place.  By "incredibly blocky", I don't mean, "relatively low vertex count".  I mean "roughly original StarFox blocky".  It's a huge performance optimization, and using it in ways that kills your performance is kind of like 'using" a refrigerator like a cupboard without plugging it in.

-----

Even if you're willing to accept the drawbacks of one of the first three options, you still need to have an employee on staff who can do it.  It takes a much stronger math background than most computer programmers will have, as there's a fair bit of graduate-level mathematics involved.  You don't need 100 people with the appropriate background; one might be enough. I don't know what fraction of game companies have anyone who has the appropriate math background, but I'm sure that an awful lot don't--including some of the big ones.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2993

I actually still like MMORPGs

2/17/13 11:29:25 PM#43
Soon as you learn how to spell whistles.

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1783

2/19/13 2:31:47 AM#44
Originally posted by Torgrim

Face it It's allready 2013 and still there are MMO that is made for sales PCs.

Yes I know game studios want to earn as much money as possible, but the reality is we have the tech to make epic graphic games with all the bells and wissles.

And no I'm not rich and have not the best PC but the thing is, someone have to start making it happend or we will see graphic stagnate galore.

....

When enough people will have better hardware. Why would any1 invest a large sum of money to game that uses hardware that nobody can play?

So far best game with most relistic gameplay, mechanics, landscapes, .... and working great, without any lag on my computers is only gw2, but also very good wow and was (not playing anymore) rift as I remember.

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

2/19/13 2:46:44 AM#45
Originally posted by Cothor
Originally posted by Aerowyn

TSW uses a lot of the newest graphic tricks from DX11 like  tesselation and nvidias new AA form TXAA but unfortunatly the characters all left something to be desired(for me at least)

But there really is no point to push the limits with a MMO when you are trying to get a very large playerbase and need to display tons of people in screen at once.. it just isn't practical

TSW is probably the ugliest MMO to come out in years. The graphics are simply horrific

You quite clearly have not played it maxed out or have a totalyl different view of good graphics lol..

 

As mentioned the character models could have been a bit better but the enviroment is pretty awesome.. TSW and ACO and some of the best looking MMOs out there..

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Shrilly

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 363

2/19/13 2:54:14 AM#46

http://www.neowizgames.com/gstar2012/Bless/ 

There is your game with killer graphics

  h0urg1ass

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/29/05
Posts: 300

2/19/13 2:56:42 AM#47

One odd little occurence that I remember from the Age of Conan release was that they said that it would be DX 10 when it came out (turned out that was one of many lies, DX 10 took another year or more).  This put a whole lot of people who wanted to play that game in a position of, don't play it or buy a new video card.  I was one of the hundreds of thousands that bought a new video card JUST to play that one game.

EVE Online did the exact same thing a few years back.  The completely rewrote their graphics engine back in 2006 to take advantage of DX 10.  At first they had two separate clients and allowed some people to play with the "classic" graphics and some to play with the new graphics.  Eventually, however, they gave a deadline and told people that if they didn't have their GPU's upgraded by the deadline, then they wouldn't be able to play at all because they didn't have the time and money to concurrently update two graphics engines at the same time.  This, in turn, forced most of us to run out and buy a new card.

So while devs tend to write games for the lowest common denominator, there is a precedent for forcing a leap in technology by requiring it for something that people wish to participate in.

Imagine if WoW suddenly came out with a press release tomorrow and said that they are completely revamping their graphics engine around the latest generation of graphics advancements.  If your card isn't written to take advantage of DX 10, then you won't be able to play past X date.  Well, you'd have a million people quit and eight million would run out and buy whatever card/laptop they need to run the game.

 

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

2/19/13 3:03:23 AM#48

well they probally should.. people should not be playing on computers that cant support DX10/11 we have had that for many years now.. infact people should not be using XP machines anymore LOL..

 

Get with the times.. :) XP main stream support from microsoft ended in 2009 and they totally stop support for it next year. So if your still running XP its time to start saving for a new PC :)

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  rawfox

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 618

2/19/13 3:07:02 AM#49
Originally posted by Torgrim

Face it It's allready 2013 and still there are MMO that is made for sales PCs.

Yes I know game studios want to earn as much money as possible, but the reality is we have the tech to make epic graphic games with all the bells and wissles.

And no I'm not rich and have not the best PC but the thing is, someone have to start making it happend or we will see graphic stagnate galore.

Didn't we all dreamed back 10-15 years how MMO should look like?

Some MMOs have good graphics such as AoC,GW2,TERA but thats it as far as I know, It's time for a game with latest graphic tech and with plenty of content away from WoW model with !.

Yes I might be rambling about this but I have been working for 28 hours straight so I made this post with a few beers.

in vinum vertias :p

 

You are right, the era of polygonal engines comes to an end soon.

The new atomic engines are already in development, here is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

 

You can imagine, were we are in 20 years, im looking forward :)

  Anthur

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 624

2/19/13 3:07:22 AM#50

Because the purpose of MMOs is to bring as much people together as possible. You know, those M's in MMORPG. So if you make an MMO with latest gfx you already loose a huge percentage of your customer base. Less customer = less profit. The average PC owner got an average PC.

There are also no trucks which are fast as a Ferrari. And don't come up with racing trucks please. How many of those exist compared to all trucks in total ? ;)

 

  sea.shell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/13
Posts: 63

2/19/13 3:14:20 AM#51

The only game (MMO persistent server) that i'm aware off, that will finally let DX9 go and push the limits with cryengine3 (and be 64bit too!) would be Star Citizen.

Playing: EVE Online
Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1826

2/19/13 3:49:58 AM#52
Originally posted by rawfox


You are right, the era of polygonal engines comes to an end soon.

The new atomic engines are already in development, here is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00gAbgBu8R4

 

It's a voxel engine, the issue with these engines is that they can't properly do animation or movement of any kind and they work only for scenery that is very repetitive since they can cull a lot but the massive detail means you need repeat objecs.

Plus you get tons of data that doesn't really add to the realism, after a certain point lighting becomes much more important that model detail, that video has billions of voxels but doesn't look very realistic, there's something off about it, polygons are much easier to light and animate, you don't need tiny tiny dots or detail to get realism, ask a painter, lighting is much more important than detail.

At the middle of the video he says "please excuse us for the repetitious graphics, we're a technology company, not a games company". The real reason is that no PC could deal with so much useless data and that's why they're repeating all the scenery.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2154

 
OP  2/19/13 4:04:51 AM#53

ArcheAge do seems to use the latest graphic features which is nice, sadly it is a quest hub based MMO to progress to max level.

I do find the piracy idea fun and fresh, I will keep my eyes more peeled on this game in the future.

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1826

2/19/13 4:08:42 AM#54
Originally posted by Torgrim

ArcheAge do seems to use the latest graphic features which is nice, sadly it is a quest hub based MMO to progress to max level.

I do find the piracy idea fun and fresh, I will keep my eyes more peeled on this game in the future.

 

That's a shame, I thought it was supposed to be a huge sandbox or something.

  ariasaitcho

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/12
Posts: 112

2/19/13 9:58:39 AM#55
an mmo with top shelf graphics and good game play?! the space-time continum would be shredded!  >.<

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

2/19/13 10:29:16 AM#56

Star Citizen will be on Cryengine 4, DX11, 64-bit client

TSW is DX11, offers Tesselation, latest shaders and is the first PC game with TXAA antialiasing on GTX 6xx cards

AoC is DX10 with lots of current graphics features, lighting, godrays, underwater caustics, realisitc water and other nifty FX. Got a 680 recently and both games look amazing with everything on max.

check these out

AoC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF3AqaCQUVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00dHRBaX-f0&list=UUYVYgFTVlUnCFM9zR-OFdTg&index=13

TSW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg5i5g1rfZE

Star Citizen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKqPkt6gc8E

Also TESO looks to be "current gen", the FX are at least DX10, probably DX11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1R5R_9Huac

 

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  moosecatlol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/25/10
Posts: 1175

2/19/13 10:30:41 AM#57

The current standard for "Latest Graphics?"

 

In 4 years.

  steelwind

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/04/04
Posts: 271

2/19/13 10:44:16 AM#58
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Torgrim

ArcheAge do seems to use the latest graphic features which is nice, sadly it is a quest hub based MMO to progress to max level.

I do find the piracy idea fun and fresh, I will keep my eyes more peeled on this game in the future.

 

That's a shame, I thought it was supposed to be a huge sandbox or something.

Questing in this game is just a means to an end and a way to gather gold. Throughout your ride to 50 there will be many many things to do outside questing and the sandbox features can be started at any time. So you could be only level 20 with a boat, house, glider, horse, start growing crops and forests. The thing is that the sandbox features do require gold to maintain so to me, questing is just there to supplement my sandbox needs not to mention early on your will get your horse, glider, and rowboat from questing not to mention standard quests will teach you the sandbox stuff.

Players need to understand that your goals in this game are far different than most wow clones and getting to 50 will not likely be the #1 thing on your list. From the first moment you step into the Archeage world, it is quite apparent that what your daily tasks will be are vastly different than any recent MMO.

Also a side note, the graphics are amazing and while I could run all current MMO's on max wth my current rig, I could not with Archeage (3/4 max). So you will need a top notch machine to run everything at max. Also note that this game is more than just graphics but rather having to draw all player created content which is EVERYWHERE. So not only are the graphics excellent, but they also support  dratically changing environment and all the objects that are added by players.

  haplo602

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 155

2/19/13 11:08:38 AM#59
Originally posted by h0urg1ass

One odd little occurence that I remember from the Age of Conan release was that they said that it would be DX 10 when it came out (turned out that was one of many lies, DX 10 took another year or more).  This put a whole lot of people who wanted to play that game in a position of, don't play it or buy a new video card.  I was one of the hundreds of thousands that bought a new video card JUST to play that one game.

EVE Online did the exact same thing a few years back.  The completely rewrote their graphics engine back in 2006 to take advantage of DX 10.  At first they had two separate clients and allowed some people to play with the "classic" graphics and some to play with the new graphics.  Eventually, however, they gave a deadline and told people that if they didn't have their GPU's upgraded by the deadline, then they wouldn't be able to play at all because they didn't have the time and money to concurrently update two graphics engines at the same time.  This, in turn, forced most of us to run out and buy a new card.

So while devs tend to write games for the lowest common denominator, there is a precedent for forcing a leap in technology by requiring it for something that people wish to participate in.

Imagine if WoW suddenly came out with a press release tomorrow and said that they are completely revamping their graphics engine around the latest generation of graphics advancements.  If your card isn't written to take advantage of DX 10, then you won't be able to play past X date.  Well, you'd have a million people quit and eight million would run out and buy whatever card/laptop they need to run the game.

 

The time EVE Online uses DX10 will be the end of the Mac client. Wine does not do DX10/11 at all. EVE never used DX10 or newer.

 

What they did was cut pre DX9 graphics. There was a year or so of dual client, so ample transition time. The game still runs great on lowend systems.

  zaylin

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/06
Posts: 792

2/19/13 11:13:00 AM#60

Easy

Small Market/Less People to buy the game

not everyone owns a higher end machine to run mmos with High end/latest graphics.

Hell honestly its why WoW was so populaer lol , I played it on a PC from 95'

 

It would be nice to see though, AOC was pretty top notch when it came out,come to think of it.

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