I don't think I would have cared so much if they didn't have rampant DR and didn't funnel everyone into an instanced dungeon. This is easily the least rewarding loot system I've ever played as someone who doesn't enjoy instanced dungeons and prefers open world gameplay. The last thing a player wants is for their prefered playstyle to be less rewarding than another playstyle. And "magic find" mechanics are fine for ARPGs but really don't belong in MMORPGs.

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Want a real WoW comparison?

The jump from Exotic to Ascended is the exact same jump from Tier 1 to Tier 2. Hop on the treadmill and enjoy your shallow dungeons.

Really? There was only 3% difference between T1 and T2 in WoW?

And since when is WoW mostly skill based game?

Tab targetting and auto attacking 3skilled5me.

Anyways, 14% difference in stats from t1-t2, mostly due to some areas of double resists. (Not counting set bonuses, too many variables and inconsistencies.)

So let's take the worst case scenario, the ring difference. 92str to 81str, this is a 12% difference in strength, and that's uninfused. Do you not see a problem here?(Actually I believe earrings can create a bigger stat difference via infusion)

Now consider the player and dev relationship right now. Their current most popular dungeon is a shallow repetitive dungeon that has gear checks due to a gimmicky unavoidable application on Jade Maw.(Confirm/Deny ?)

Now take a wild gander at what a developer would conclude based off of their dungeon data?

It absolutely amazes me how people can discard any form of cognition the moment their favorite company does anything. It's as if 75% of the player base immediately started to gaily clap their wrists together at the thought of a new dungeon, without any attention to the fact that they pulled a MASSIVE PAUL BARNETT on each and every one of you. . . AGAIN!

 

So where does that leave you?

Either someone that enjoys the current direction of the game and loves officially being lied to, or somone that hates the direction of the game and also hates being lied to. Not really sure if the former constitutes as battered housewife syndrome or not, maybe someone with some superior backround knowledge of psychology could help with this one?

 

Someone going from 1281 Str to 1292 Str, for example... no, don't see a big deal with that at all. You try an compare the items to each other, but without scale those numbers are meaningless when they're that small. You're talking closer to a 0.8% increase.

There's a reason they hard-locked level 50 Fractal.

10 points if you can guess why!

Anyways like I said before, cognitive thought seems to escape those that keep their head in the sand.

That is why people reached level 60 fractals?

"Reached"

It's as if the only thing you do is read the forums rather than actually playing the game.

Level 50 maw now does 1172% of your health per second with unavoidable agony As of Jan 28th.

FYI, as far as I know you could go indefinitely, premonition reaching 83.

Are you even fit to be discussing content that you have never experienced?

Are you telling me the rest of the fractals don't use Agony?

They had to hard lock it because people werent supposed to survive after level 30 fractals without more agony resistance and the rest of the dungeon isn't even ready.

Just like in AC the burrows stopped spawning after 25 since you weren't supposed to kill them so fast.

If it is the most popular dungeon, well maybe the playera like the direction of the game and since Anet is a game studio that make games instead of having to be a saint, that is what matters.

I'm seriousely not trying to make a point but what exactly do I need from fractals now that I can get laurels?

I'm dead ass about this questions to, cause I honestly could be missing something here?

Is it the infusions or something? 

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Are you telling me the rest of the fractals don't use Agony?

They had to hard lock it because people werent supposed to survive after level 30 fractals without more agony resistance and the rest of the dungeon isn't even ready.

Just like in AC the burrows stopped spawning after 25 since you weren't supposed to kill them so fast.

 

 

 

I'm going to let you find the conclusion as to why they would retroactively lock content, the higher level fractals definitely used agony, but prior to Jan28th you were able to "Mitigate" the effects of agony through careful and skillful play.

However I will tell you that they definitely knew 80+ was do-able, but what they didn't know was how the public would receive doing the same content over and over again. Now consider the current reception of fractals and its popularity amongst players. Now ask yourself why would any developer lock of a portion of content that was once available to the population?

*Hint* It's not "because people weren't supposed to survive."

I really dont see the issue with Ascended, the difference between it an exotic is small.

But, like so many things about GW2, those used to other games just cant let go of the differences are they are remaining locked into the past. They see the "new" "better" gear as the ZOMG I GOTZ TA HAZ IT NOW! and realize, it was never meant to be something you can get quickly, it was supposed to be something that came over a long period of time.

Originally posted by RizelStar

I'm seriousely not trying to make a point but what exactly do I need from fractals now that I can get laurels?

I'm dead ass about this questions to, cause I honestly could be missing something here?

 

Is it the infusions or something? 

Weapons are the current exclusive to fractals of the mist aside from the capacitor, however the weapons come with no stats and need to be transmuted for stats in order to gain access to the infusion slot.

Also doing fractals at 26+ will yield a chance for a pre-infused ring, which is a very nice money/time saver should you be so lucky.

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Are you telling me the rest of the fractals don't use Agony?

They had to hard lock it because people werent supposed to survive after level 30 fractals without more agony resistance and the rest of the dungeon isn't even ready.

Just like in AC the burrows stopped spawning after 25 since you weren't supposed to kill them so fast.

 

 

 

I'm going to let you find the conclusion as to why they would retroactively lock content, the higher level fractals definitely used agony, but prior to Jan28th you were able to "Mitigate" the effects of agony through careful and skillful play.

However I will tell you that they definitely knew 80+ was do-able, but what they didn't know was how the public would receive doing the same content over and over again. Now consider the current reception of fractals and its popularity amongst players. Now ask yourself why would any developer lock of a portion of content that was once available to the population?

*Hint* It's not "because people weren't supposed to survive."

Because one had to use silly exploits/mechanics.

Oh wait, let me see you're trying to say Arenanet is a money grabbing company and they want you to use the cash shop and so they aren't any better than the companies that slow you slow you down to make you sell out $15/month.

I play GW2 because it the best game on the market for my tastes, not because I agree with everything they do.

And alas, the problem I have with ascended items isn't the agony which is a system used in GW1 in the form of agony and lightbringer ranks., but higher stats on items only obtainable in fractals.

Ascended items can be obtained outside fractals now.

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by RizelStar

I'm seriousely not trying to make a point but what exactly do I need from fractals now that I can get laurels?

I'm dead ass about this questions to, cause I honestly could be missing something here?

 

Is it the infusions or something? 

Weapons are the current exclusive to fractals of the mist aside from the capacitor, however the weapons come with no stats and need to be transmuted for stats in order to gain access to the infusion slot.

Also doing fractals at 26+ will yield a chance for a pre-infused ring, which is a very nice money/time saver should you be so lucky.

Agony resistance has no use outside fractals, so for any player not playing fractals in the first place is irrelevant.

Originally posted by RizelStar

I'm seriousely not trying to make a point but what exactly do I need from fractals now that I can get laurels?

I'm dead ass about this questions to, cause I honestly could be missing something here?

 

Is it the infusions or something? 

The only thing you might need is T-shirt that says "i did lvlx fractal".

Anything else - nope.

Originally posted by Muntz

I still like the game I must admit I didn't think ascended gear was necessary. I actually do enjoy doing fractals I think the content is fun. I don't like the way it pushed the population to mostly doing just fractals. It wasn't just the ascended gear that did that it was also the fact that fractals had the best drops in the game as well. I think some of that has subsided. 

I didn't see where anyone stated this but you don't need ascended gear you can actually dodge the agony attacks (except the maw). It is desirable to stay at range. In the earlier levels it is possible to heal through them as well. Personally I find no or low agony in the lower levels less of a problem then a full MF geared player gimping the group. 

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by RizelStar

I'm seriousely not trying to make a point but what exactly do I need from fractals now that I can get laurels?

I'm dead ass about this questions to, cause I honestly could be missing something here?

 

Is it the infusions or something? 

Weapons are the current exclusive to fractals of the mist aside from the capacitor, however the weapons come with no stats and need to be transmuted for stats in order to gain access to the infusion slot.

Also doing fractals at 26+ will yield a chance for a pre-infused ring, which is a very nice money/time saver should you be so lucky.

Agony resistance has no use outside fractals, so for any player not playing fractals in the first place is irrelevant.

Okay, so in all honesty I really don't need to do  fractals in order to get ascended gear. I only asked because some people are still saying fractals are being forced or somehting like that. Which in return confused me, but then also wouldn't this make GW2 not a gear treadmill or it still is despite current an incoming options to get Ascended gear, maybe I'm confusing gear treadmill with something else.

@moosecatlol: Are the weapons the fractal weapons? Like the cool looking ones or those are two different things, cause really the only reason I am considering of doing fractals is for the fractal themed weapons they look pretty cool.

I'll love ascended weapons/armor/trinkets as soon as they are attainable through WvW participation.  I am working on my 5th stack of badges right now.   I really hope ascended can be bought with Badges or WvW kills in general.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Okay, so in all honesty I really don't need to do  fractals in order to get ascended gear. I only asked because some people are still saying fractals are being forced or somehting like that. Which in return confused me, but then also wouldn't this make GW2 not a gear treadmill or it still is despite current an incoming options to get Ascended gear, maybe I'm confusing gear treadmill with something else.

@moosecatlol: Are the weapons the fractal weapons? Like the cool looking ones or those are two different things, cause really the only reason I am considering of doing fractals is for the fractal themed weapons they look pretty cool.

You are not confusing treadmill, fractals in themselves are treadmill if you want to make them treadmill (getting agony resistance) for higher and higher level, but you can do up to lvl10 without that. Another matter is that fractals are the same content just with raised hp/damage/agony as you raise in level.

Oh, and for other matter, people were able to get to very high lvl fractals (74 iirc) by using exploits/screw ups with design that resulted in unintended agony mitigation.

Originally posted by Maephisto

I'll love ascended weapons/armor/trinkets as soon as they are attainable through WvW participation.  I am working on my 5th stack of badges right now.   I really hope ascended can be bought with Badges or WvW kills in general.

 

Same here, 4 stacks and counting. Hopefully they wont change the currency ;P

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Want a real WoW comparison?

The jump from Exotic to Ascended is the exact same jump from Tier 1 to Tier 2. Hop on the treadmill and enjoy your shallow dungeons.

Really? There was only 3% difference between T1 and T2 in WoW?

And since when is WoW mostly skill based game?

Tab targetting and auto attacking 3skilled5me.

Anyways, 14% difference in stats from t1-t2, mostly due to some areas of double resists. (Not counting set bonuses, too many variables and inconsistencies.)

So let's take the worst case scenario, the ring difference. 92str to 81str, this is a 12% difference in strength, and that's uninfused. Do you not see a problem here?(Actually I believe earrings can create a bigger stat difference via infusion)

Now consider the player and dev relationship right now. Their current most popular dungeon is a shallow repetitive dungeon that has gear checks due to a gimmicky unavoidable application on Jade Maw.(Confirm/Deny ?)

Now take a wild gander at what a developer would conclude based off of their dungeon data?

It absolutely amazes me how people can discard any form of cognition the moment their favorite company does anything. It's as if 75% of the player base immediately started to gaily clap their wrists together at the thought of a new dungeon, without any attention to the fact that they pulled a MASSIVE PAUL BARNETT on each and every one of you. . . AGAIN!

 

So where does that leave you?

Either someone that enjoys the current direction of the game and loves officially being lied to, or somone that hates the direction of the game and also hates being lied to. Not really sure if the former constitutes as battered housewife syndrome or not, maybe someone with some superior backround knowledge of psychology could help with this one?

 

Someone going from 1281 Str to 1292 Str, for example... no, don't see a big deal with that at all. You try an compare the items to each other, but without scale those numbers are meaningless when they're that small. You're talking closer to a 0.8% increase.

There's a reason they hard-locked level 50 Fractal.

10 points if you can guess why!

Anyways like I said before, cognitive thought seems to escape those that keep their head in the sand.

Simple. They haven't coded increasing difficulties above level 50. I know, not the answer you want people to believe, but it's really that simple.

Originally posted by RizelStar

I'm seriousely not trying to make a point but what exactly do I need from fractals now that I can get laurels?

I'm dead ass about this questions to, cause I honestly could be missing something here?

 

Is it the infusions or something? 

Nothing to be honest, unless you like running Fractals. The only thing they offer ultimately over the laurel items are agony resistance. It's simply another way to get ascended if you want to.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by RizelStar

Okay, so in all honesty I really don't need to do  fractals in order to get ascended gear. I only asked because some people are still saying fractals are being forced or somehting like that. Which in return confused me, but then also wouldn't this make GW2 not a gear treadmill or it still is despite current an incoming options to get Ascended gear, maybe I'm confusing gear treadmill with something else.

@moosecatlol: Are the weapons the fractal weapons? Like the cool looking ones or those are two different things, cause really the only reason I am considering of doing fractals is for the fractal themed weapons they look pretty cool.

You are not confusing treadmill, fractals in themselves are treadmill if you want to make them treadmill (getting agony resistance) for higher and higher level, but you can do up to lvl10 without that. Another matter is that fractals are the same content just with raised hp/damage/agony as you raise in level.

Oh, and for other matter, people were able to get to very high lvl fractals (74 iirc) by using exploits/screw ups with design that resulted in unintended agony mitigation.

 

Alright thanks for the information.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by moosecatlol

Want a real WoW comparison?

The jump from Exotic to Ascended is the exact same jump from Tier 1 to Tier 2. Hop on the treadmill and enjoy your shallow dungeons.

Really? There was only 3% difference between T1 and T2 in WoW?

And since when is WoW mostly skill based game?

Tab targetting and auto attacking 3skilled5me.

Anyways, 14% difference in stats from t1-t2, mostly due to some areas of double resists. (Not counting set bonuses, too many variables and inconsistencies.)

So let's take the worst case scenario, the ring difference. 92str to 81str, this is a 12% difference in strength, and that's uninfused. Do you not see a problem here?(Actually I believe earrings can create a bigger stat difference via infusion)

Now consider the player and dev relationship right now. Their current most popular dungeon is a shallow repetitive dungeon that has gear checks due to a gimmicky unavoidable application on Jade Maw.(Confirm/Deny ?)

Now take a wild gander at what a developer would conclude based off of their dungeon data?

It absolutely amazes me how people can discard any form of cognition the moment their favorite company does anything. It's as if 75% of the player base immediately started to gaily clap their wrists together at the thought of a new dungeon, without any attention to the fact that they pulled a MASSIVE PAUL BARNETT on each and every one of you. . . AGAIN!

 

So where does that leave you?

Either someone that enjoys the current direction of the game and loves officially being lied to, or somone that hates the direction of the game and also hates being lied to. Not really sure if the former constitutes as battered housewife syndrome or not, maybe someone with some superior backround knowledge of psychology could help with this one?

 

Someone going from 1281 Str to 1292 Str, for example... no, don't see a big deal with that at all. You try an compare the items to each other, but without scale those numbers are meaningless when they're that small. You're talking closer to a 0.8% increase.

There's a reason they hard-locked level 50 Fractal.

10 points if you can guess why!

Anyways like I said before, cognitive thought seems to escape those that keep their head in the sand.

Simple. They haven't coded increasing difficulties above level 50. I know, not the answer you want people to believe, but it's really that simple.

Actually they have.  MOB still get stronger post 50.  Take it from someone who has actually done it.

And to clarify since once again people don't seem to understand, the only thing they changed that made it "hard-capped" at 50 was that you can revive someone fully downed and have them no longer take agony from Jade Maw (on the two times he triggers agony) since it's automatically reapplied if you do this, making it impossible post 50 to do Jade Maw, but since Jade Maw is only done on even levels you can still advance levels past 50 after the patch by finding someone who is higher than 50 and doing only the odd levels, so in a way it's only really capped at 84 (83 was the highest reached I believe before the patch, but 83 is still doable).

Agony is avoidable on every boss aside from Jade Maw.  Some bosses have obviously harder to avoid agony, but for the most part you can avoid agony on every boss, making every odd Fractal post 50 still doable.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

 

Actually they have.  MOB still get stronger post 50.  Take it from someone who has actually done it.

And to clarify since once again people don't seem to understand, the only thing they changed that made it "hard-capped" at 50 was that you can revive someone fully downed and have them no longer take agony from Jade Maw (on the two times he triggers agony) since it's automatically reapplied if you do this, making it impossible post 50 to do Jade Maw, but since Jade Maw is only done on even levels you can still advance levels past 50 after the patch by finding someone who is higher than 50 and doing only the odd levels, so in a way it's only really capped at 84 (83 was the highest reached I believe before the patch, but 83 is still doable).

Agony is avoidable on every boss aside from Jade Maw.  Some bosses have obviously harder to avoid agony, but for the most part you can avoid agony on every boss, making every odd Fractal post 50 still doable.

So as someone who has done upto 50 can you say ascended gear is not "needed" to complete fractals even as high as 50+?

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Magnum2103

 

Actually they have.  MOB still get stronger post 50.  Take it from someone who has actually done it.

And to clarify since once again people don't seem to understand, the only thing they changed that made it "hard-capped" at 50 was that you can revive someone fully downed and have them no longer take agony from Jade Maw (on the two times he triggers agony) since it's automatically reapplied if you do this, making it impossible post 50 to do Jade Maw, but since Jade Maw is only done on even levels you can still advance levels past 50 after the patch by finding someone who is higher than 50 and doing only the odd levels, so in a way it's only really capped at 84 (83 was the highest reached I believe before the patch, but 83 is still doable).

Agony is avoidable on every boss aside from Jade Maw.  Some bosses have obviously harder to avoid agony, but for the most part you can avoid agony on every boss, making every odd Fractal post 50 still doable.

So as someone who has done upto 50 can you say ascended gear is not "needed" to complete fractals even as high as 50+?

It's not needed at all, in fact post 50 agony resist isn't going to help you at all anyway.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it and stack AR to 35 on your gear.  It's certainly going to make the climb to 50 MUCH easier having as much AR as possible.

EDIT:  Well, actually it is needed if you intend to do Jade Maw levels.  You can get past 10-18 with zero AR, 20-28 you'll need at least one person with 10-15 AR, 30-38 you need 25-30 AR, and 40-48 you'll need a lot of healing and revive skills as well as 35 AR.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Magnum2103

 

Actually they have.  MOB still get stronger post 50.  Take it from someone who has actually done it.

And to clarify since once again people don't seem to understand, the only thing they changed that made it "hard-capped" at 50 was that you can revive someone fully downed and have them no longer take agony from Jade Maw (on the two times he triggers agony) since it's automatically reapplied if you do this, making it impossible post 50 to do Jade Maw, but since Jade Maw is only done on even levels you can still advance levels past 50 after the patch by finding someone who is higher than 50 and doing only the odd levels, so in a way it's only really capped at 84 (83 was the highest reached I believe before the patch, but 83 is still doable).

Agony is avoidable on every boss aside from Jade Maw.  Some bosses have obviously harder to avoid agony, but for the most part you can avoid agony on every boss, making every odd Fractal post 50 still doable.

So as someone who has done upto 50 can you say ascended gear is not "needed" to complete fractals even as high as 50+?

It's not needed at all, in fact post 50 agony resist isn't going to help you at all anyway.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it and stack AR to 35 on your gear.  It's certainly going to make the climb to 50 MUCH easier having as much AR as possible.

that's the whole point though some people feel ascended turned the game into a "gated" content game like wow.. even i thought 30+ you needed some ascended gear but if that's not the case then how can anyone say they turned this game into a  gated gear grinder type game?

saw your edit.. so you can progress through it just might not be able to complete the even ones.. but you arern't really gated from doing the content  so I really don't see the issue