Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Caliburn101

To summarise the obvious, but nevetheless entirely valid and representative points made here;

1. The game's faction mix is based entirely on geographic location and not lore - there shouldn't even be a discussion here - it is blindingly obvious

2. The devs at Zenimax have taken the TES IP and stretched it over the DAOC model, not the other way round

3. The faction lock flies entirely in the face of the long established and very popular TES way of doing things (i.e. player freedom of movement and choice)

4. The TES name is being used to popularise the creation of DAOC 2 (why else did they start with button/cooldown UI and then change to mana/health/stam after mass complaints?)

5. Invisible walls will have to be the way they keep factions regions seperate unless they introduce mountain ranges etc. which have never existed in Tamriel

6. Lore has been twisted until it screams to fit over the desired DAOC framework (the orcs example is an excellent illustration but there are plenty of others)

7. The fact is - factional DAOC play could have been combined with freedom of movement by having non-racial factions and a flag system locking players down only after they had chosen

8. The fact is - methods could be introduced to allow players to visit other faction areas - and they haven't said they are even considering this

9. Faction locks mean non-access to quests and dungeons which will be analysed to death and ANY perceived 'unfair advantage' will be rankled about endlessly

10. Faction lock means a staggeringly VAST amount of content has to be created to fill the PvE expectations of each player playing on their main. Regardless of whether you think this has actually been accomplished, this time would STILL have been much better spent making 50% more freely accessible content better for everyone - with greater choice for all. Instead it is likely there has been a great deal of cut, paste and reskin to fill the multiple content voids created by such a large world chopped into exclusive slices - three PvE MMO's in one is most likley a folly they will come to regret.

I have heard quite enough now from the myopic PvP-centric single line or paragraph posting players who think because Cyrodil PvP has a good model to work from (DAOC) that it is perfectly ok that other central and beloved aspects of TES should be trampled under the boots of expedient ex-DAOC Devs.

You CANNOT have the whole DAOC model without ripping up some core elements of TES. You CAN however take the best elements of DAOC and combine them sympathetically with TES...

... Zenimax however have not left themselves enough time to realise the coffee smells stale and needs to be re-brewed...

I encourage EVERY beta tester to concentrate on the issues with faction lock and be very vocal about every little thing about it that they don't like. Perhaps then there is a minute chance we'll have the 2014 release of a game which will work for everyone...

Excelent summary.

I also want to support this post. It's not that any of us don't like DAoC, because I'm sure we all do. It was my first MMORPG after all, but we expected a TES game, not a DAoC 2 when they announced ESO.

Totally agree, if they rethought the faction lock then it might rekindle my interest in the game, if they dont then i never will. Some of those points are so glaringly obvious that i just dont see what Zenimax were thinking of, as for the PVP, no matter how vociferous the PVP centric players may get, they represent a minority, as player interest has repeatedly been found to be mostly PVE orientated, by as much as a 80/20 split, if Zenimax doesnt take note of this much at least, then they will consign the game to a niche status, that may even be far less than Eve Online'.  imo, the games success hinges on the game world, and having a completely segregated game world, with faction locking is a step backwards, Zenimax should bite the bullet and innovate, not segregate. There are already more than enough instance heavy MMO's out there, we really don't need to add to that particular pile.

Originally posted by GrumpyBuddha
The Elder Scrolls series has always been about freedom. Do whatever you like, whereever you want. Locking in factions is taking away from this freedom, and implementing some sort of faction betrayal cannot be a solution to this fundamental flaw.

I agree, it is a fundamental flaw. But like it has been stated, the faction lock is mostly in the interest of balancing PVP, encounters, and building a community on an otherwise mega-server. So the goal then would be to find a middle ground, maybe something that is not exactly what all sides of the argument want, but good enough to build a bridge and make an enjoyable transition from the single player TES series most of us love, to the online mess I am sure most of us will complain about but still throw some money at.

I am not saying the idea I posted was the solution, but something along those lines could give everyone the gameplay experience they want to some degree.

faction lock is the way to go in teso.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kosac
You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.

Still, open world PvP would be nice.

Originally posted by Torgrim
I tend to be a one toon gamer but with TESO I have to roll 2 more toons to be able to explore everything and that is stupid.

 You don't have to, you just want to. Stupid is confusing "want" with "have to."

Originally posted by Astraeis

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kosac
You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.

Still, open world PvP would be nice.

I totally disagree. I have seen enough "open world PVP" in PVP servers in too many MMOs to believe the hype that it is anything other than griefing. A soldier in a battlefield who kills you is just doing his job. One that does it at a mall while you're trying on a pair of pants is just a murderer.

All the freedom of the original Elder Scrolls Game is still here.  You get access to more zones then any single TES game ever made.  You have the perfect combination of MMO systems and TES systems.  You still have the freedom to wear any weapon or armor and to progress your character using a resource driven combat system (Stam, Health, Magika).  You have the perfect blend of Themepark systems with Elder Scrolls open world exploration centric gameplay.  You have acces to arguably the best form of PvP.  There is going to be a return to open publix dungeons that made MMO's of old more sociable and fostered community growth.

Sounds like an amazing list to look forward too and I for one can't wait.

I am somewhat on the fence on this issue but there has been some good points brought up. Either way, I think people on both sides of the issue should  just wait and see what happens until they make any decisions about the game. They may find out that something they didn't like (or liked) before is actually fun to them now.

When I first started playing online games, UO was my first experience. After getting taken to school by "PKs" quite a few time, I decided pvp games weren't for me. Luckily for me, Everquest (1) came out and I left UO and never went back. As I have gotten more experienced and tried many games, I actually grew to appreciate my time in UO and began to find myself drawn back to the PVP games I used to avoid. Now I prefer those games (when done correctly).

That's why I am excited about faction lock and what ESO looks like it is shaping up to be. My only fear would be that it tries to be everything for everyone and winds up doing nothing well. Still, I am pretty sure I'll be there the first weekend ESO goes live and finding out first hand.

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Astraeis

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kosac
You said it tsw. That's what this game will be pvp wise if they listen to the "we demand freedom in everything" people.

Still, open world PvP would be nice.

I totally disagree. I have seen enough "open world PVP" in PVP servers in too many MMOs to believe the hype that it is anything other than griefing. A soldier in a battlefield who kills you is just doing his job. One that does it at a mall while you're trying on a pair of pants is just a murderer.

Everything has its down side, but when the combat system is truly engaging and fun, I would not mind being ganked and having to mobilize my allies every now and then. When the combat system is no fun I am not interested in PvP anyway. For a PvP centric game like TESO that will be a no go for me. For some reason I have the feeling that faction lock and separation is related to the fact that the combat system is not engaging enough.

Virgin post :)

First of all, I love Skyrim, and am SO PUMPED for the Elder Scrolls Online. I will play it regardless. I understand the reason for the developers choosing to go this route, however, I disagree with it. 

As previously discussed here, faction locked territories simply are a let down for anybody that loves exploring the entire world in a 'sandbox' fashion. The discussion is centered around ganking and the concern that enemy players could disrupt your leveling, but I think it is the wrong discussion. It is simply an injustice to make a huge, beautiful world (which, by the screenshots and videos I have seen, looks that way) and then keep 2/3 of the players in the game from exploring any given faction zone. All gameplay implications aside, it is the wrong idea to start off with for the Elder Scrolls Online. Let us go anywhere!

Another gigantic flaw with this idea is that Skyrim is in the Ebonheart Pact territory. I haven't read every single reply to this discussion, so I don't know if I'm kicking a dead horse, but wouldn't an overwhelming majority of people then play for the Ebonheart Pact? I, for one, want to go to Skyrim in this game! If territories are faction locked, I am definitely making a dark elf. HOWEVER, I also want to go see every single territory on my main character.

I do not plan on making an alt for a long time, probably not until I reach level 50. And even if I do make an alt, I would like to play on the same faction, with the same team. That's how I viscerally feel about my MMO experience. I take a side, and stick to it through the entirety of the game. The point is, if part of their attempt is to increase replayability with this decision, they've even made wrong assumptions there. For players like me, it will actually destroy my replayability. Forcing me to play with different factions is really annoying and frustrating

As a hardcore RPG fan, I would absolutely love to see them change their minds on this one. I signed up for beta, so if I get in, Zenimax Online can count on my being very vocal against this.

I would have liked to see players being able to pick their factions. You join the mages guild, maybe they have a hate on for the assassin guild.  You pick the faction you want, but you don't just make new friends you gain enemies.  That to me would be more like Elder Scrolls.

This forced faction stuff will only hurt player numbers. In a world where there are many many mmo's to pick from and a req X number of people playing, I fail to see the logic.  More like, once more we get a dev who believes they know what people want and will drive the game into the ground before doubting their own awesumeness.

Originally posted by Iceman8235
I don't mind not having the entire map to roam for pve, if anything I'd rather have it that way.  DAoC was the best gaming experience I've ever had and part of the draw was seeing enemies as real invaders from unknown lands.  A lot of the mystery would be lost if enemies could freely mingle outside of the open world pvp areas.

Ah this is it for me too.  It made the other faction somewhat "mysterious" if you had never played them.  It also gave a sense of belonging to your side.  Speaking of DAoC.  The enemy were truly outsiders.  The biggest dissapointiment for me was that the WvWvW in GW2 was all races against all races. 

Take a look at Rift etc.  It just makes more sense.   Now I think you should be able to explore as long as you are flagged immediately for PvP when you eneter someone elses land.

Originally posted by notanaem

Even if you can't go to the other factions zones, it just adds more reply value to alts so I see it as a great thing. I can see where you're coming from though ES has always been about exploration and I guess the more I think about it that's straying from the original games a lot. I guess we'll know for sure when we get more info but I will say not many companies are Bethesda. So I would seriously try to get them to stay as true as possible to the original series.

 

Edit: If I can't go from Morrowind to Red Rock what's the point I mean really?

I really wish people would stop using this as a selling point.  That is what EA and Bioware tried to use as a selling point for SWTOR.   It doesn't work.  Not everyone likes making multiple alts.   Some people prefer to play one main toon.   Face it, this game will be dead before it launches and will just be another SWTOR, Aion, Warhammer or one of the many other failed games becuase the designers make a bad game design decission.   This faction land lock will ruin this game.  

Factions in general make me lose interest.

Another game where you get to kill faceless, no name, enemies youll never chat with or get to know.  Yawn.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Factions in general make me lose interest.

 

Another game where you get to kill faceless, no name, enemies youll never chat with or get to know.  Yawn.

 

 

You know, one of the best things in games that didnt have some kind of restriction between combatants was getting to know who your enemy was. They might become an ally or your greatest nemesis.

I remember in SWG hating this one guy in a rival guild. For years we would go at each other. Then later we both ended up joining another guild and eventually became friends.

No not at all. I really dont see what the big deal is honestly. I dont really  care if you cant go see your enemy lands, what are you going to do there anyways? Run around low level players tryin to get them to attack you?

Dont even say i wanna explore either, just make an alt for that. Even if you could go Explore their lands, you wouldnt get to do any of the story missions there so that's no fun to me atleast.

Also if anything makes this game "FAIL"!! Will not  be locked factions, it will be crappy RVR since it is obviously the main focus of this game.

This is all my opinion of course.