My aunt would respond with:

"se jalan la polla todo el dia"

Translated roughly to: all day long they have been playing with their dicks.

The point is that they do nothing productive and to remain on the top they most likely:

1- are retired or handicapped people with enough money so they can waste away their very short live spans playing

2- living off parents bums

3- cant think of any other

Do what makes you happy not what society thinks should make you happy.

When I spent almost three years in a cancer ward at the bedside of my wife 16-18 hours a day you get to see and learn certain lessons, you see rich people being told money can't cure them, you see workaholics who put off a holiday because next year is better, students people with plans, families.

Cancer and death is the great leveller of society and human kind.

If you are happy to work 5 days a week and be a productive member of society so be it.

If you are happy getting that last achievement or first boss win in a game then so be it.

Because everyone has only a finite time on this planet and the best you can hope for is that when the end comes you didn't miss out on something or have a major regret.

I remember a 14 year old called Mark it was 2006 he had terminal cancer a rare type of leukeamia only at the best 4 weeks of managable time before he would be in the home stretch and on morphine 24/7, he had no interest in seeing the pyramids or going to greece, no film he really wanted to see or place to be.

What he wanted was for that four weeks to have the best pc at the time and be able to play anarchy online with his friends and guild without anyone of them knowing he was dying.

I found out about it from a couple of cancer care workers from what they said he had a great time, wish I had known him in AO.

If playing games or being in the top guild makes you happy then do it just remember you do not know what will happen tomorrow life loves to throw a curve ball just ask yourself this if tomorrow was my last day what would I regret not what society tells you that you should regret.

For those of you looking  down on people or trying to categorize them seems to me you are just trying to label choices made by another human being, anyone who tries to tell you they are your betters is lying we are all as equal as we allow ourselves to be, if you are happy in your life choices why do you need others to meet your standards more likely it is insecurity with your own choices and the pack mentality of "if more people believe how I do then I must be right".

Originally posted by calranthe

Do what makes you happy not what society thinks should make you happy.

When I spent almost three years in a cancer ward at the bedside of my wife 16-18 hours a day you get to see and learn certain lessons, you see rich people being told money can't cure them, you see workaholics who put off a holiday because next year is better, students people with plans, families.

Cancer and death is the great leveller of society and human kind.

If you are happy to work 5 days a week and be a productive member of society so be it.

If you are happy getting that last achievement or first boss win in a game then so be it.

Because everyone has only a finite time on this planet and the best you can hope for is that when the end comes you didn't miss out on something or have a major regret.

I remember a 14 year old called Mark it was 2006 he had terminal cancer a rare type of leukeamia only at the best 4 weeks of managable time before he would be in the home stretch and on morphine 24/7, he had no interest in seeing the pyramids or going to greece, no film he really wanted to see or place to be.

What he wanted was for that four weeks to have the best pc at the time and be able to play anarchy online with his friends and guild without anyone of them knowing he was dying.

I found out about it from a couple of cancer care workers from what they said he had a great time, wish I had known him in AO.

If playing games or being in the top guild makes you happy then do it just remember you do not know what will happen tomorrow life loves to throw a curve ball just ask yourself this if tomorrow was my last day what would I regret not what society tells you that you should regret.

For those of you looking  down on people or trying to categorize them seems to me you are just trying to label choices made by another human being, anyone who tries to tell you they are your betters is lying we are all as equal as we allow ourselves to be, if you are happy in your life choices why do you need others to meet your standards more likely it is insecurity with your own choices and the pack mentality of "if more people believe how I do then I must be right".

 

Yes, good point : do what you enjoy and don't listen to haters who will find something that they judge to be negative about and try to tear you down. I think what people choose to do with their time is their own business, as long as it is not illegal or hurts someone else. It is also not good to over-generalize about people.

Online gaming in my view has so many positive things about it : time management skills, social skills, cooperation and team work, learning about trade/human relations/simple economic models, strategic and competitive play.

Just as an aside, someone mentioned 3 hours of play 5 times a week as a long time. Not really, considering that the average person watches TV a lot longer in Europe and the US.

I played in a lot (or led a few) achiever guilds/alliances/clans.

Here was my order of the top tier players, by percentage:

a)  Slacker (but smart) unemployed kids (young adults)  living at home:  This was the largest segment.  Many had dropped out of high school.

b)  College students (undergrads at university):  Don't mistake this for technical college schools where attendance is mandatory.  I'm talking your average BA student with 12-15 hours of lecture per week and lots of spare time.  LOTS.

c) Armed Forces (leave) or retired vets:  The vets were permanent.  The guys on leave played like maniacs until deployed.

d) Regular dude with a crappy job  with a wife and kids that he neglects:  There were always a few of these.  Were usually the largest source of drama as real life stress drove them Chris Dorner.

d) Professional and single guy:  Sometimes elite players, but eventually rage quit when the slacker kids who can play 16 hours a day instead of his 8-10 pass him.

e) Independently wealthy types:  Never actually met one. 

f) Single moms/fat women:  Ya there were always a few of these, but they were never elite, so they go below independently wealthy, because at least a few of those existed.

For the record, in my MMO heyday, i was b).

Here are my favourite types of player from this thread, they all raised a smile:

#3. Most of the players all had jobs. They were married, too. After they worked for 8 hours, they simply played. I think some of them might have had some marriage issues. No all, though.

a) Slacker (but smart) unemployed kids (young adults) living at home: This was the largest segment. Many had dropped out of high school.

f) Single moms/fat women: Ya there were always a few of these, but they were never elite, so they go below independently wealthy, because at least a few of those existed.

1- are retired or handicapped people with enough money so they can waste away their very short live spans playing

No sterotypes here, move along!

Originally posted by calranthe

Do what makes you happy not what society thinks should make you happy.

When I spent almost three years in a cancer ward at the bedside of my wife 16-18 hours a day you get to see and learn certain lessons, you see rich people being told money can't cure them, you see workaholics who put off a holiday because next year is better, students people with plans, families.

Cancer and death is the great leveller of society and human kind.

If you are happy to work 5 days a week and be a productive member of society so be it.

If you are happy getting that last achievement or first boss win in a game then so be it.

Because everyone has only a finite time on this planet and the best you can hope for is that when the end comes you didn't miss out on something or have a major regret.

I remember a 14 year old called Mark it was 2006 he had terminal cancer a rare type of leukeamia only at the best 4 weeks of managable time before he would be in the home stretch and on morphine 24/7, he had no interest in seeing the pyramids or going to greece, no film he really wanted to see or place to be.

What he wanted was for that four weeks to have the best pc at the time and be able to play anarchy online with his friends and guild without anyone of them knowing he was dying.

I found out about it from a couple of cancer care workers from what they said he had a great time, wish I had known him in AO.

If playing games or being in the top guild makes you happy then do it just remember you do not know what will happen tomorrow life loves to throw a curve ball just ask yourself this if tomorrow was my last day what would I regret not what society tells you that you should regret.

For those of you looking  down on people or trying to categorize them seems to me you are just trying to label choices made by another human being, anyone who tries to tell you they are your betters is lying we are all as equal as we allow ourselves to be, if you are happy in your life choices why do you need others to meet your standards more likely it is insecurity with your own choices and the pack mentality of "if more people believe how I do then I must be right".

 

This is an excellent post.

For your interest, the reason I started this post was because the person I love most in all the world fell sick temporarily (but I didn't know it was temporary at the time) and it made me question my values and how I spend my time on this earth.

Originally posted by gamesrfun

I played in a lot (or led a few) achiever guilds/alliances/clans.

Here was my order of the top tier players, by percentage:

a)  Slacker (but smart) unemployed kids (young adults)  living at home:  This was the largest segment.  Many had dropped out of high school.

b)  College students (undergrads at university):  Don't mistake this for technical college schools where attendance is mandatory.  I'm talking your average BA student with 12-15 hours of lecture per week and lots of spare time.  LOTS.

c) Armed Forces (leave) or retired vets:  The vets were permanent.  The guys on leave played like maniacs until deployed.

d) Regular dude with a crappy job  with a wife and kids that he neglects:  There were always a few of these.  Were usually the largest source of drama as real life stress drove them Chris Dorner.

d) Professional and single guy:  Sometimes elite players, but eventually rage quit when the slacker kids who can play 16 hours a day instead of his 8-10 pass him.

e) Independently wealthy types:  Never actually met one. 

f) Single moms/fat women:  Ya there were always a few of these, but they were never elite, so they go below independently wealthy, because at least a few of those existed.

For the record, in my MMO heyday, i was b).

 

I would be d (the second one) if I played more!

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Our guild is a top guild in EQ. Where do I find the time, what time? I don't play more than someone else, we just play more focused that's all, we know each other, we min-max, everyone has maxed AA.

I don't get where people get this notion from that top MMO guilds play more than casuals, there are many casuals who play way more than I do, they're just not focused on min-max.

When they introduce a new level cap our guild has maxed their levels in a matter of days while other players take months. On average we tend to play less than other people.

Most people in our guild are just normal people with jobs who play no more than someone else would.

 

Since you use the word "clan" I assume you're referring to other games, I don't know how it works in other games, maybe there are people who play all day just to get to the top, in Everquest that's not how it works, you min-max and you eventually get to the point where you play in a top guild, it has very little to do with how long you play but more with how you play.

I'm not entirely convinced.

 

The problem it that it takes a long time to 'max' your character out. The 'max' level has probably been imposed so that the games company can say that they are protecting players' health. It doesn't mean the max level ensures a balenced lifestyle.

Everything's relative, i.e - how many hours per day do you play EQ to be in a top guild? You might not think it's that much, but time yourself. When I play a game, time goes by fast.

 

About 3 hours, 5 times per week, which to me is not that much, and I have an RA of about 80%, so I skip some days now and then. I see some casuals play 5 hours every day or more, so I don't think I play *that* much, most people sit in front of their TV for 3 hours every night.

Some people immediately assume because I raid that I have no life or that people in our guild have no life. The difference between peple who raid in our guild and "casuals" is that we are consistent, we raid every night for those 3 hours and keep very high RA (raid attendance), it's the consistency that allows us to progress, not the fact we play a lot. If you have people logging in at random hours you can not progress, most casuals play a lot, but are unwilling to log on from X yo Y, they log in at random hours and so they are useless to our guild, even if they play 10 times as much as we do.

Whooooaaaah. .  casual = 5 hours every day or more?  I think not :)  

Originally posted by gamesrfun

I played in a lot (or led a few) achiever guilds/alliances/clans.

Here was my order of the top tier players, by percentage:

a)  Slacker (but smart) unemployed kids (young adults)  living at home:  This was the largest segment.  Many had dropped out of high school.

b)  College students (undergrads at university):  Don't mistake this for technical college schools where attendance is mandatory.  I'm talking your average BA student with 12-15 hours of lecture per week and lots of spare time.  LOTS.

c) Armed Forces (leave) or retired vets:  The vets were permanent.  The guys on leave played like maniacs until deployed.

d) Regular dude with a crappy job  with a wife and kids that he neglects:  There were always a few of these.  Were usually the largest source of drama as real life stress drove them Chris Dorner.

d) Professional and single guy:  Sometimes elite players, but eventually rage quit when the slacker kids who can play 16 hours a day instead of his 8-10 pass him.

e) Independently wealthy types:  Never actually met one. 

f) Single moms/fat women:  Ya there were always a few of these, but they were never elite, so they go below independently wealthy, because at least a few of those existed.

For the record, in my MMO heyday, i was b).

 

I'm d), except I can't do not even 8-10 hours a day any more, its like 2-4 now. I know quite a few of all of the above during my harder core years. I met an e) some f)'s and a whole lot of a,b,c and d. d)'s in my opinion are the coolest and sometimes best players, but when they are deployed, we lose them for months at a time.

For the majority of my professional life I've worked as a freelancer. And believe it or not, the longest times I sank into an MMO (or any other game for that matter) were during the short stints where I had to work in set hours (9 to 5 or, 7 to 4 or whatever).  I guess there's something about your ordinary day job that drives me to play games more. :)

I did some hardcore raiding in my time, and in my experience you had all sorts of people. High school students, college students, unemployed, office workers, entrepreneurs, doctors, artists, writers, the filthy rich, what have you...  I'd say people with day jobs far outweighed the ones without, and we set our raiding schedule accordingly. Though a freelancer for almost all of that time, I remember actually having a way tougher time with the raiding schedule than the office workers. The damned deadlines, they don't give you the time of day! :)

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

About 3 hours, 5 times per week, which to me is not that much, and I have an RA of about 80%, so I skip some days now and then. I see some casuals play 5 hours every day or more, so I don't think I play *that* much, most people sit in front of their TV for 3 hours every night.

Some people immediately assume because I raid that I have no life or that people in our guild have no life. The difference between peple who raid in our guild and "casuals" is that we are consistent, we raid every night for those 3 hours and keep very high RA (raid attendance), it's the consistency that allows us to progress, not the fact we play a lot. If you have people logging in at random hours you can not progress, most casuals play a lot, but are unwilling to log on from X yo Y, they log in at random hours and so they are useless to our guild, even if they play 10 times as much as we do.

Whooooaaaah. .  casual = 5 hours every day or more?  I think not :)  

I mentioned it before, I use the word casual differently it seems.

To me there are casuals who play 5 to 10 hours a day, they are people not in raid guilds, they are people who don't tend to be progression focused and never make it to a top guild. They are many of those casual players who play a lot, a lot more than the "hardcore" raiders who play 3 hours to raid and log off. Some play casually like that by choice but others are just players who for some reason don't know how to progress.

I just think it's strange that people always try to equate people in high-end guilds with people who play all day. Go actually ask those people from those guilds how much they play, you'll quickly realise that many are just players who play consistently and employ a very different playstyle to progress in games.

You can follow the same player from game to game, that same player in game A will be in a top guild, when that player moves to game B they will be in a top guild also. Follow that casual player in game A and that player will never make it to a top guild, nor in game A nor in game B, and it often has very little to do with how long they play.

I have seen players return to EQ who were top player years ago, they come back without knowing anyone, a few months later they are the guild leader of a top raid guild, many other players will take years to even get into a raid guild to begin with. They have figured out what it takes to lead, progress and quickly build social contacts that makes them progress at a much faster rate than anyone else. It has nothing to do with how long they play or how many hours they play.

Sometimes I see this in MMO, not usually in EQ, but sometimes people who have progressed a lot are jealously marked as someome who must have no life or must be jobless or whatever excuse they use. No no, that player has learned how to progress and you haven't, that's often the reason that casual player is not in a top guild, not becaus they don't want to, they just don't understand how to progress.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

About 3 hours, 5 times per week, which to me is not that much, and I have an RA of about 80%, so I skip some days now and then. I see some casuals play 5 hours every day or more, so I don't think I play *that* much, most people sit in front of their TV for 3 hours every night.

Some people immediately assume because I raid that I have no life or that people in our guild have no life. The difference between peple who raid in our guild and "casuals" is that we are consistent, we raid every night for those 3 hours and keep very high RA (raid attendance), it's the consistency that allows us to progress, not the fact we play a lot. If you have people logging in at random hours you can not progress, most casuals play a lot, but are unwilling to log on from X yo Y, they log in at random hours and so they are useless to our guild, even if they play 10 times as much as we do.

Whooooaaaah. .  casual = 5 hours every day or more?  I think not :)  

I mentioned it before, I use the word casual differently it seems.

To me there are casuals who play 5 to 10 hours a day, they are people not in raid guilds, they are people who don't tend to be progression focused and never make it to a top guild. They are many of those casual players who play a lot, a lot more than the "hardcore" raiders who play 3 hours to raid and log off. Some play casually like that by choice but others are just players who for some reason don't know how to progress.

I just think it's strange that people always try to equate people in high-end guilds with people who play all day. Go actually ask those people from those guilds how much they play, you'll quickly realise that many are just players who play consistently and employ a very different playstyle to progress in games.

 

You can follow the same player from game to game, that same player in game A will be in a top guild, when that player moves to game B they will be in a top guild also. Follow that casual player in game A and that player will never make it to a top guild, nor in game A nor in game B, and it often has very little to do with how long they play.

I have seen players return to EQ who were top player years ago, they come back without knowing anyone, a few months later they are the guild leader of a top raid guild, many other players will take years to even get into a raid guild to begin with. They have figured out what it takes to lead, progress and quickly build social contacts that makes them progress at a much faster rate than anyone else. It has nothing to do with how long they play or how many hours they play.

I see what you are saying.   I guess aside from my time in UO I always considered myself casual and there were not really raids then.   The most hard core I ever got was RvR in DAoC.  I suppose it is the difference between a hard core gamer and a hard core player of a specific game.  I know people that I would never call a casual player just because the game is their life even though they never raid at all or care about levels.   I just can't call that casual when it takes over your life but your definition makes sense.

One word...

Students.

Well I assume most of them anyway. I had so much time to kill when I was at University.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

In DUST - and probably in all MMORPGs - there seems to be several hundered players who are in the top few clans or guilds. They are the elite of the game - by a large margin - and they seem to play the game like it's a job. 

 

If there is a tournament, their clans will be the top few teams.

 

If you want to join them, the expectation is that you play the game like it's a job as well.

 

But how do these people find the time? What do they do for a living?

 

I'm just curious as to whether anyone has an insight into this.

some people play when they get home insteadof watching TV. or they work a few days a week, whch gives them more days to play long periods of time.

Originally posted by Smoey

One word...

 

Students.

 

Well I assume most of them anyway. I had so much time to kill when I was at University.

Agreed. The ones who don't get kicked out and end up finding a real job and moving on in life...well, it isn't possible after that.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

In DUST - and probably in all MMORPGs - there seems to be several hundered players who are in the top few clans or guilds. They are the elite of the game - by a large margin - and they seem to play the game like it's a job. 

 

If there is a tournament, their clans will be the top few teams.

 

If you want to join them, the expectation is that you play the game like it's a job as well.

 

But how do these people find the time? What do they do for a living?

 

I'm just curious as to whether anyone has an insight into this.

some people play when they get home insteadof watching TV. or they work a few days a week, whch gives them more days to play long periods of time.

I rarely watch TV - I would prefer to play an MMORPG because it's interactive.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

 

I rarely watch TV - I would prefer to play an MMORPG because it's interactive.

Some tv shows, like Dexter or Homeland, are way better entertainment than most MMOs.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by Omnifish

One guy I knew, in WoW, used to do all the encoding for one of those text message advertsing services. Bascially he'd get the advert details put it all together and send it to the server for sending out to everyone elses phones on a database. It pretty much meant he worked from home and had a lot of time on he's hands.

Incidently he met he's wife at a depression clinc, they had two kids and it'd need a scotch before I told you how that story ended....

That's really interesting. I'll bite - I'm interested to know - how did that story end?

Well it's a long story, but he ended up killing himself after he found out he's wife was having an affair with he's brother, who he hated.

Thing is one of the officers in the guild was on when he ODed and heard the lot.  Didn't bother with WoW for about 10 months after that...