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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Speed classes - yes or no (poll)

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43 posts found
  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

2/16/13 11:48:23 PM#21
Originally posted by boxsnd

No mounts. They break immersion (a horse appears from nowhere and then disappears). Casting the mount every time you need to move is annoying as hell. 

 

Originally posted by Lore84
Yes to speed classes....no to mounts. I don't think they are necessary. Also, as has been said it csn break immersion.

I would find a lack of mounts far more "immersion" breaking, in the setting and everything, it makes little to no sense to not have mounts, especially in this day and age when almost any mmo has them.

 

What would set it apart would be if you could have actually GOOD decent mounted combat, a la Mount and Blade style.

 

As far as "horse summoning" actually get rid of it imo. Go the UO route, horses are permanent, can be stored at stables. You can purchase horses from a stable in cities (or guild cities if those are in the game) or find one and break it from the wild might also be a neat thing to do.

Horses can be wounded and killed in combat, can be outfitted with armor to help protect them, and if your horse dies that's that, you have to buy another one.

 

To me this is 10x better then no horses, but I'd still prefer the "poof" magical horses to simply not having any period. There are ways around balancing this, such as not obeing in combat and vice versa.

 

Also how far immersion breaking are magical poof horses when there exists magic that you can cast and use?

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

2/16/13 11:55:30 PM#22
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by boxsnd

No mounts. They break immersion (a horse appears from nowhere and then disappears). Casting the mount every time you need to move is annoying as hell. 

 

Originally posted by Lore84
Yes to speed classes....no to mounts. I don't think they are necessary. Also, as has been said it csn break immersion.

I would find a lack of mounts far more "immersion" breaking, in the setting and everything, it makes little to no sense to not have mounts, especially in this day and age when almost any mmo has them.

 

What would set it apart would be if you could have actually GOOD decent mounted combat, a la Mount and Blade style.

 

As far as "horse summoning" actually get rid of it imo. Go the UO route, horses are permanent, can be stored at stables. You can purchase horses from a stable in cities (or guild cities if those are in the game) or find one and break it from the wild might also be a neat thing to do.

Horses can be wounded and killed in combat, can be outfitted with armor to help protect them, and if your horse dies that's that, you have to buy another one.

 

To me this is 10x better then no horses, but I'd still prefer the "poof" magical horses to simply not having any period. There are ways around balancing this, such as not obeing in combat and vice versa.

 

Also how far immersion breaking are magical poof horses when there exists magic that you can cast and use?

^^ This.  Love this idea!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  gregoryvg

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/13
Posts: 35

2/17/13 12:10:31 AM#23
Originally posted by meddyck

Of course there is the problem that every group will want/need to have this class in it. My thought is give the primary healing class in each realm the best group speed chant. That way it won't require an additional group slot to cover both of these necessary functions.

Yes to both speed classes and horses, but no to the idea of giving speed to the primary healer class.  Try to spread the abilities out among the classes to encourage grouping.  Other than that I also liked the idea of a primary speed class and a secondary speed class; much like there are primary and secondary healers.  Horses should be no faster than secondary speed.

  Yizle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 528

2/17/13 12:38:50 AM#24
Originally posted by tlear
Hate mounts, the whole "poof" aspect of them really annoys me

Yes because the whole "poof" aspect of fireballs or stealthers is different.

  Scilly

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/17/13 2:40:00 AM#25
Originally posted by Pedrob

Yes to speed classes.  It's been a while since I've seen a class with perma speed.

Mounts only add more lag in big fights.

 

^this

  synn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/16/03
Posts: 540

2/17/13 2:44:17 AM#26
hell yeah i want speed class. screw the mount and give me a minst anyday
  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

2/17/13 11:50:21 AM#27
Originally posted by tlear
Hate mounts, the whole "poof" aspect of them really annoys me

Same here, really don't care about mounts.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

2/17/13 2:40:02 PM#28

You don't think something like this would be fun to have in the game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpz8XuV6y8&t=0m45s

 

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

2/17/13 2:56:33 PM#29
Originally posted by Stiler

You don't think something like this would be fun to have in the game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXpz8XuV6y8&t=0m45s

 

I'm with you, brother.  I think good mounted combat is the one thing missing from MMOs these days.  I'd love to see people using strategies where they send in the infantry and then the mounted knights come galloping in after them.  They could be used to break up the archers/casters in the back.  Not sure of the most balanced way of pulling this off, but I think it would be pretty epic if it could be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  Davod

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/07
Posts: 44

2/17/13 3:03:44 PM#30
I believe mounts instead of speedclasses is the right way to go, as this will give the world a more medieval feel like the one we our self had (mounts was widely used in our own darkages, both in and outside of combat). Best of all would be possibilties to use mounts to battle, but it's not necessary. 

  Storm_Fireblade

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 156

2/17/13 4:29:54 PM#31
Mounts do add a lot of diversity and flair, but I hope they will focus on smooth gameplay primary. Its fine with me to wait on something like mounts if it would increase bugs and lags rushing it.

Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/

  alexisevic

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 41

2/17/13 10:03:13 PM#32
I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game.  But I can tell you it would be  a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat. 
  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

2/17/13 11:17:49 PM#33
Both, with speed classes being the fastest.
  OgreRaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 381

2/17/13 11:19:03 PM#34
Originally posted by alexisevic
I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game.  But I can tell you it would be  a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat. 

 

Mounted combat doesn't appeal to me. I hope it doesn't make it into the game.

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

2/17/13 11:30:06 PM#35
Originally posted by alexisevic
I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game.  But I can tell you it would be  a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat. 

Balance it out like real warfare?

Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?

  alexisevic

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 41

2/18/13 1:44:36 AM#36
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by alexisevic
I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game.  But I can tell you it would be  a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat. 

Balance it out like real warfare?

Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?

 

Gosh, if only it were that easy!  Every MMO should have throught of that, pikes and spears FTW!

No one ever fought on foot because they wanted too, they did because they had too.  It wasn't a tactical choice, it was an economic one.  You can't simply copy paste IRL tactics into MMOs and expect them to work.  No, sadly what would happen is mounted combat would turn into nothing but skirmish tactics against non monted units.  Due to their better speed, they would only melee their opponents when victory was assured, and until then they would just kite and over extend them.  

  Stiler

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/19/05
Posts: 592

2/18/13 2:58:25 AM#37
Originally posted by alexisevic
Originally posted by Stiler
Originally posted by alexisevic
I'm not sure what, if any, value mounted combat would add to the game.  But I can tell you it would be  a nightmare to ballence non mounted vs. mounted combat. 

Balance it out like real warfare?

Give people pikes, and anti-cavalry weapons, and let the actual strategy be its won reward?

 

Gosh, if only it were that easy!  Every MMO should have throught of that, pikes and spears FTW!

No one ever fought on foot because they wanted too, they did because they had too.  It wasn't a tactical choice, it was an economic one.  You can't simply copy paste IRL tactics into MMOs and expect them to work.  No, sadly what would happen is mounted combat would turn into nothing but skirmish tactics against non monted units.  Due to their better speed, they would only melee their opponents when victory was assured, and until then they would just kite and over extend them.  

It works fine in Mount and blade (online). A good bowmen can dismount a guy on horseback, people can have pikes/anti-cavarly weapons and other things.

Plus, horses have collision, if they run into a line of troops, they might break through a small line but a bigger line they will get stopped and ht ehorse is hardly manuverible in this situation, surrounded by people on foot you won't last long.

Horses should cost money, and good armor for horses, or "war mounts" (Ie horses trained specifically for fighting) can cost a LOT of money, so it's both a money sink plus strategic to know if you should use one or not.  Cheaper horses (mainly used to travel) would have less hp, be prone to "spooking" if battle ensues and other things that wouldn't make them that viable for engaging in combat vs a war horse that costs a lot more money.

As far as skirmish tactics, you assume everyone would be melee that's on foot, or everyone would be range on horseback? Plenty of people will play melee on horseback (if they have lances, or even just swords to swing about). In which case they are vunerable to range attacks, but also when engaging someone in melee range they can still be killed, depending on the weapona and attack that person uses.

What makes you assume the guy on horseback would win every fight, provided the people on foot have access to tactics to use against mounte dfoes?

 

Just likle in the real world, Cavalry weren't invunerable, they could be coutnered, It's about tactics, and in an mmo I'm all for adding depth and layers to what people can do, not keeping them out because it will take time to balance and do them correctly.

Perhaps that can be a stretch goal for the kickstarter. Base game/money goal doesn't have mounts/mounted combat, and a certain stretch goal gives them the funds to do them properly.

  CyborWolfTK

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/13
Posts: 80

2/18/13 3:25:55 AM#38

Yes, and as far as mounted combat is concerned, I think UO did it very well in the early game.

Need horse? okay, you gotta have some taming, and find one.

 

Or more likly, most of the time I'd just take one of the one's walking around that had belonged to some blue:)

 

Ahh those where the days!

 

:)

 

In CU, Balancing of mounted and non mounted could incorperate a pentalty system for certain actions if done from horse back...

example: Percentage chance a spell fizzles/ archery shot misses because your mounted.

  Some styles are not available or are replaced by mounted combat styles(like have some fighter classes that specialize in mounted combat, and other classes only get limited styles/skills. ) Think Mongolian horse archer, Lancer, or what ever,(insert your class here)

I accually already have an entire write up from a game I was working on that's like 50 pages long that deals with this issue.It includes affects on each type of class, replacement of skills, penatlies for being knocked off the mount, benifits for being mounted, ect ect.

  Keep in mind also, you could impose restriction on types of horses certain classes could employ much like armor restictions.

mages won't have a war horse, and thus if he wanted to ride into battle It would be on a regular riding horse. it could go down easy, much like he can, and he could suffer the penatly for that. /example: Since he's not skilled in riding, he breaks a leg, and is snared for a period of time when his horse went down. He goes down but manages to jump clear of the fall, but loses his staff, and is left unable to cast for a short period of time. ect ect.

It's not as tough as you think, as long as you can be creative with imposing pentalties, and benifits. In the end the players decide if they want to incure the penalties for the benifits to have a certain play style.

 

CyborWolfTk~

  Eluwien

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/08
Posts: 166

2/18/13 4:15:07 AM#39

No mounts, never ever. 

No mounted combat, no mounts for traveling, no funny magical spider horses, no poof out of nowhere and poof back to the pocket mounts, no stables, no cavalry warfare. 

 

A good and smooth combat on foot, with magic and trickstery that adjust movement speed, speed of perceived time, or player location but for the love of Thor do not put Vikings on mounts or Veil creatures on spiders.

 

If I want to ride be a purple demon chick riding a pink elephant I'd play WoW. No magic carpets, poco sticks, brooms or motorcycles either. "Adds immersion" my ass. No asses either, we dont need no donkeys.


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  replicant

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/04
Posts: 46

"Be resolute, fear no sacrifice and surmount every
difficulty to win victory." - Mao

2/18/13 4:48:51 AM#40
If I don't vote for a Speed Class then I am sure one of my best friends will disown me. As for mounts it really depends on the size of the landscape itself so that mounts actually feel like a useful addition. I however do not want instant ports to battlefield components or flying mounts.

Bear "replicant" Powell
"I am Shaolin-Style!"

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