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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » Isn't this guy the same guy that hyped up Warhammer Online?

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99 posts found
  ironhelix

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 465

2/17/13 12:20:53 PM#81
I am probably in the minority, but I didn't think that Warhammer Online was that bad. Sure, it had it's faults, and I didn't like where they went with it after launch, but I had a LOT of fun when it came out. If they can take to good from Warhammer, and build on DAoC, then I am on board.
  Nibs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/26/04
Posts: 198

2/17/13 12:26:19 PM#82

Mark, please mate, PARAGRAPHS!

My eyes are bleeding, man! How will I be able to play CU if your epic posts aren't broken up just a smidge? Please!

Many thanks for all your constant posting over the past week. Most of us really do appreciate all the effort you're already putting in :)

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19065

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

2/17/13 12:27:53 PM#83
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Icewhite

Mr. Jacobs, with all due respect...there's nothing to be gained from "setting the record straight".

It cannot help.

I must respctfully disagree.

 

While I doubt Mark is going to sway MMOexposed away from his preconcieved notions, his setting the record straight here is futher helping to cement the suport of readers such as myself. So as I've said before, Mark, please keep talking.

 

And to MMOExposed. I respect your opinion, but in this case I'm sorry to say I feel you're starting to sound like a child holding onto a grudge like its your favorite toy. If all we ever did was to sit around and dwell on what has happened in the past, there wouldn't be a future.

 

 

Well all has been said and done.

Mark must really think I am a amateur when it comes to exposing hype. But I said what needed to be said, and even Marks words added to my original point.

See a lot of new accounts on this forum, and Mark has come out. At least he not shilling it like most developers do here, oh wait,,,

but keep in mind people.

History is studied for a reason. To prevent past mistakes, and learn from them.

History show, that in the MMO genre, many developers/publishers over the years exploit consumers with massive hype brainwashing marketing tactics.

Warhammer Online and GW2 were two of the biggest examples of this.

like I pointed out, which even Mark admits, but in a politically corrected tone, he originally requested that the Warhammer Alliance public forum would BAN and BLOCK ANY NEGATIVE TALK about Warhammer Online.
The Warhammer Alliance staff refused, so he pulled support of the forum.

If you really wanted to improve the game, why would you want the criticism silenced? Because Warhammer as we know has much deserved criticism.  

Seem like you were more out to cover your own ass with more box sells, than to actually continue improving a product to please your consumers.

And here you are Mark, with your well thought-out words of hype.I read your comments, and I can see your clever tricks.
I wont insult you for your clever use of words to hype the masses here, since most developers do the same.

My words go more out to the consumers than the developers and publishers behind titles like this, to keep a straight mind when it comes to dealing with sellers like Mark, because they have only 1 goal in mind, even if they not a puppet under a larger corp. And they will sacrifice all else for that 1 goal.

Look for the red flags, and perhaps learn from the past MMO marketing exploitations, and see past the blinders.

Thats all I will say on this and leave it there.
Mark you are clever, but hopefully the community here after my years of preaching to the choir here on this site about exposing hype, will see past your cleverness and do their own exposing from here on out.

 

:-/

Oh no, don't worry, we all pretty much think you're an amatuer when it comes to exposing hype, not just Mark.

Mark's done a pretty good job here explaining what went wrong with WAR, admitted to his mistakes, and has been pretty good about sharing his new vision, much more so than most development teams have done. (Looking at you COS team)

Sure, we'll keep an eye on him, but do recall, he's 1-1 in my book, so he's worth follfowing along for this next round.

As for avoiding hype, always sound advice, and far too many people fall prey to it these days, not just for this title.

 

 

 

"Someone once told me, there is always someone more powerful than you." - Nicola [Bunraku]
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Scilly

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/17/13 12:31:05 PM#84
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Scilly

Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

 

 

NPS MJ, your the only dev imo that has ever given so much info and explantion prior to a project going ahead. I also think your allowing people to troll you to much but i undertsand your reluctance to ignore them and actually answer them. This makes the people that care respect you more so Kudos to you sir /bow

  Voiidiin

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 827

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

2/17/13 12:32:27 PM#85
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Well all has been said and done.

Mark must really think I am a amateur when it comes to exposing hype. But I said what needed to be said, and even Marks words added to my original point.

See a lot of new accounts on this forum, and Mark has come out. At least he not shilling it like most developers do here, oh wait,,,

but keep in mind people.

History is studied for a reason. To prevent past mistakes, and learn from them.

History show, that in the MMO genre, many developers/publishers over the years exploit consumers with massive hype brainwashing marketing tactics.

Warhammer Online and GW2 were two of the biggest examples of this.

like I pointed out, which even Mark admits, but in a politically corrected tone, he originally requested that the Warhammer Alliance public forum would BAN and BLOCK ANY NEGATIVE TALK about Warhammer Online.
The Warhammer Alliance staff refused, so he pulled support of the forum.

If you really wanted to improve the game, why would you want the criticism silenced? Because Warhammer as we know has much deserved criticism.  

Seem like you were more out to cover your own ass with more box sells, than to actually continue improving a product to please your consumers.

And here you are Mark, with your well thought-out words of hype.I read your comments, and I can see your clever tricks.
I wont insult you for your clever use of words to hype the masses here, since most developers do the same.

My words go more out to the consumers than the developers and publishers behind titles like this, to keep a straight mind when it comes to dealing with sellers like Mark, because they have only 1 goal in mind, even if they not a puppet under a larger corp. And they will sacrifice all else for that 1 goal.

Look for the red flags, and perhaps learn from the past MMO marketing exploitations, and see past the blinders.

Thats all I will say on this and leave it there.
Mark you are clever, but hopefully the community here after my years of preaching to the choir here on this site about exposing hype, will see past your cleverness and do their own exposing from here on out.

 

:-/

Umm please look in the mirror when spouting this tripe.

I know you dearly want to come across as a person "in the know" when it pertains to MMOs, but all anyone has to do is read your posting history and see how caustic you can be towards games you don't agree with,

But i am 100% in agreement with you in not coming back to comment anymore. We will see your cleverness exposed from here on out.

Lolipops !

  dotdotdash

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 348

2/17/13 12:33:14 PM#86

Whilst I don't mean to add fuel to the fire here, I would very much like to point something out anyway: Mark's behaviour and actions in the past very much have a role to play in people deciding whether to back this or not, if they wish to consider those things.

As I've discussed with him in another thread, he's selling himself as much as he's selling the game. By selling himself, he's selling everything... including the past. If, for example, we are to take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation of DAoC, then we will also take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation and delivery of Warhammer Online. Part of the reason I brought up the "mythic seconds" affair was to see if he would bother to talk about it, and he did. He shared what seemed to me like a fairly honest opinion on the matter. It's up to others whether that impact their opinion on him.

We also have to remember that DAoC is, for a lot of people, something that a handful of other people talk about. The millions of MMO fans now mostly consists of people that didn't and haven't played DAoC. Most of "us" remember Warhammer Online; they made a big enough deal out of it. We remember what happened in Warhammer Online quite specifically. We remember his role their, the rumours, the things that were done and not done, the promises that were made and broken, etc, etc, so on and so forth. Mark had a direct role in all that, the "lead" role in fact.

And I think Mark knows all of that ;D I think he's here because he knows all of that. He wants to make a niche game for a specific type of gamer, but those people are also the people that feel slighted over Warhammer Online. He has to convince those people - the enthusiastis and fanboys - that he isn't likely to make the same mistakes again, because in the long term those are the people that are going to not only buy but also sell his game for him ;D

I might be wrong.

  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2293

"Free to play, pay to win""

2/17/13 12:33:41 PM#87
Originally posted by Scilly
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Scilly

Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

 

 

NPS MJ, your the only dev imo that has ever given so much info and explantion prior to a project going ahead. I also think your allowing people to troll you to much but i undertsand your reluctance to ignore them and actually answer them. This makes the people that care respect you more so Kudos to you sir /bow

Get a room, you two.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!

  Scilly

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/17/13 12:38:56 PM#88
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Whilst I don't mean to add fuel to the fire here, I would very much like to point something out anyway: Mark's behaviour and actions in the past very much have a role to play in people deciding whether to back this or not, if they wish to consider those things.

As I've discussed with him in another thread, he's selling himself as much as he's selling the game. By selling himself, he's selling everything... including the past. If, for example, we are to take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation of DAoC, then we will also take into account that he had an important role to play in the creation and delivery of Warhammer Online. Part of the reason I brought up the "mythic seconds" affair was to see if he would bother to talk about it, and he did. He shared what seemed to me like a fairly honest opinion on the matter. It's up to others whether that impact their opinion on him.

We also have to remember that DAoC is, for a lot of people, something that a handful of other people talk about. The millions of MMO fans now mostly consists of people that didn't and haven't played DAoC. Most of "us" remember Warhammer Online; they made a big enough deal out of it. We remember what happened in Warhammer Online quite specifically. We remember his role their, the rumours, the things that were done and not done, the promises that were made and broken, etc, etc, so on and so forth. Mark had a direct role in all that, the "lead" role in fact.

And I think Mark knows all of that ;D I think he's here because he knows all of that. He wants to make a niche game for a specific type of gamer, but those people are also the people that feel slighted over Warhammer Online. He has to convince those people - the enthusiastis and fanboys - that he isn't likely to make the same mistakes again, because in the long term those are the people that are going to not only buy but also sell his game for him ;D

I might be wrong.

you talk about EA and call MJ a bad guy? :P EA are renowed for squezzing as much profit from a genre as possible.. look at fifa 1990-2020 is all the same basic shiz, just with updated tech. He was a guy who got lucky with his concept made some bad choices and is now back trying to make amends. OFC thats my opinion!

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3734

RIP City of Heroes!

2/17/13 12:39:41 PM#89
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Scilly

Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Mr. Jacobs, with all due respect...there's nothing to be gained from "setting the record straight".

It cannot help.

I know that it really doesn't matter what I say, that even if I had documents, sworn statements, etc. some people's opinions wouldn't change. I'm really not trying to set the record straight because if I was, I would name names, people toss and swear that it all wasn't my fault (some of it absolutely was) or that everything that happened was the result of me just following orders (it wasn't). Some people have asked some really good questions and if I ignore them, then people will say "See, he refuses to admit mistakes" (this has already happened even though I've probably admitted to mistakes more often here and in the past that 99% of development heads of studios/designers or "See, you can't trust him, he's evasive" (again, happened here) or even worse, "He won't learn from his mistakes!" (once again, with feeling, this has happened here too). I can't answer every question and some I am *absolutely* avoiding because they would entail people tossing and if I lose some backers because I won't engage in that behavior because either they continue to think it is my fault or because they think I'm hiding something, well, I'd rather lose the backers than go down that dark path.

As I've always said, whether back in the early days of Dark Age of Camelot's development or now, if you don't trust me or think that we can do it, that's fine, it's your right.

 

 While it is true that you might not change minds with some type of documentation there is still the end result.  The game as it was released.  Does anything need to be said beyond that?

  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

2/17/13 12:43:47 PM#90
I wouldn't say MJ did much in the way of hyping up WAR, and he did say he learned from his mistakes. Hickman and Barnett on the other hand can go f-ck themselves.
  dotdotdash

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 348

2/17/13 12:54:23 PM#91
Originally posted by Sideras
I wouldn't say MJ did much in the way of hyping up WAR, and he did say he learned from his mistakes. Hickman and Barnett on the other hand can go f-ck themselves.

He did quite a lot of hyping. He was the General Manager. He did loads of interviews where he used more hyperbole than Obama has used in his entire presidency ;D

Barnett and Hickman were worse, however. I could never understand how Hickman landed the position at Bioware for SWTOR. And Barnett is just Games Workshop's odd poster boy.

  Scilly

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/17/13 12:55:08 PM#92
Originally posted by BizkitNL
Originally posted by Scilly
Originally posted by MarkJacobs

Originally posted by Scilly

Originally posted by MarkJacobs
Originally posted by Storm_Fireblade
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
I am genuinely excited about what the backers and CSE can do over the next few years.

Well, we will create the best RvR experience in the most immersive world ever, of course! *looking around* No, I see no hype here :-)

LOL, if you ever see me say that, please feel free to throw things at me. :)

mark FFS take sunday off and dont burn yourself out before dev even begins!!!! <3

Thanks but I'm going into the office shortly to work on the levels for MoO and final cleanup of tomorrow's post. I thank you for your kind words though.

 

 

NPS MJ, your the only dev imo that has ever given so much info and explantion prior to a project going ahead. I also think your allowing people to troll you to much but i undertsand your reluctance to ignore them and actually answer them. This makes the people that care respect you more so Kudos to you sir /bow

Get a room, you two.

stop being jealous and bring along your whip :P

  dotdotdash

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/11
Posts: 348

2/17/13 1:01:46 PM#93
Originally posted by Scilly

stop being jealous and bring along your whip :P

Well now... that was inappropriate.

You do know that "backing Mark Jacobs" is a financial arrangement, right?

  Scilly

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/17/13 1:09:59 PM#94
Originally posted by dotdotdash
Originally posted by Scilly

stop being jealous and bring along your whip :P

Well now... that was inappropriate.

You do know that "backing Mark Jacobs" is a financial arrangement, right?

lol

  Sentime

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/10/06
Posts: 277

2/17/13 3:47:19 PM#95

As the saying goes...

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." :P

  Tadder

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 38

2/17/13 4:05:12 PM#96
Originally posted by Sentime

As the saying goes...

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." :P

I thought it was, Fool me you can't get fooled again?

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5538

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/17/13 4:20:09 PM#97
Originally posted by Lore84
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Believe it or not, people are capable of learning and moving on and it sounds like this game is going in the right direction.

true. Specially if its away from EA's death grip.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Kvalandur

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 31

2/18/13 6:40:52 PM#98

Having played DAOC from release through the first 3 years, I'm really interested in seeing another game that brings back the 3 sided RvR conflict. DAOC provided some of the most fun I've had playing MMOs, and I must say I'm so sick of these lame theme park games with their instanced excuse for PvP and their gear grubbing endless raiding. 

 I betad Warhammer too, so what. I mean who cares what happened in War, unless you've just got some axe to grind its pointless to beat on that diseased horse.

 To the future, to manning a siege engine atop a keep looking for sign of an approaching army!  CU sounds like a LOT more fun then these crap games they are making now!

  -Zeno-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/05
Posts: 1301

2/18/13 8:45:47 PM#99
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Hi, not trying to bash the game, but isn't this guy that is speaking for the game to the community, the same exact person that did the massive hyping of Warhammrr Online?

To me, that indicates that he is somebody that knows how to use and exploit hype, to mislead the masses, and paint them a false image of a product based on hype, and exploit many people.

 

You all should be careful. This should be a big Red Flag. But I am just pointing this out, so that maybe people who are interested in this game would look at it more realistically and no get exploited once again by a MMO developer/publisher....

:-/ 

I don't want to defend MJ but WAR was a good game!  It's only real flaw was two sides for RVR instead of 3.

Note:  I do like RVR, even if I can't kill anyone on my side.  That is another thing that hurts RvR games, people not working together and no way to punish them.

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

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